SydLexia.com Forum Index
"Stay awhile. Stay... FOREVER!"

  [Edit Profile]  [Search]  [Memberlist]  [Usergroups]  [FAQ]  [Register]
[Who's Online]  [Log in to check your private messages]  [Log in]
Someone explain to me why the NDAA is not horrifying


Reply to topic
Author Message
SoldierHawk
Moderator
Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Dec 15 2011 06:25 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Article one of many out there: http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-spokane/house-votes-to-pass-ndaa-gop-rep-says-us-citizen-s-due-process-rights-safe

Seriously. I know a few people explained SOPA in such a way that it didn't seem as bad as I thought, and I would greatly appreciate that here, if it's possible. Because. DAMN.


militarysignatures.com

William Shakespeare wrote:
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.

 
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailVisit poster's website
Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Dec 15 2011 07:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

This is nasty. I really don't see any justification for it.


So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind.
 
View user's profileSend private message
JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Dec 15 2011 07:38 pm Reply with quote Back to top



There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
View user's profileSend private message
username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
PostPosted: Dec 15 2011 08:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

here's an interview w/the guys from GOG.com that covers this topic:
http://www.destructoid.com/good-old-games-on-pipa-sopa-drm-and-other-acronyms-216348.phtml


Klimbatize wrote:
I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load

 
View user's profileSend private messageAIM AddressYahoo MessengerMSN Messenger
Lady_Satine
Title: Head of Lexian R&D
Joined: Oct 15 2005
Location: Metro area, Georgia
PostPosted: Dec 15 2011 09:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

username wrote:
here's an interview w/the guys from GOG.com that covers this topic:
http://www.destructoid.com/good-old-games-on-pipa-sopa-drm-and-other-acronyms-216348.phtml

While SOPA and PIPA bother me, I loves my Spoony, Nostalgia Critic, and Let's Plays; the NDAA worries me much more.
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
Jack Slater
Title: Friendly Felon
Joined: May 17 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
PostPosted: Dec 15 2011 11:13 pm Reply with quote Back to top

What does it matter? The Constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper.

Seriously, it worries me as well, but there's nothing you can do about it. In the final analysis, if they want to have a police state, they will, and you won't be able to do anything. Mind you, a police state is unnecessary, for they already have all necessary control via the media, so I doubt anything would come of it.

Want to change something? You must use force. All power comes through force or the threat of it. Attempts at changing the status quo through anything less than force do not work, unless it is something willed by those already in power. Gandhi did not win through pacifism, those in power simply decided that Britain's turn at the top was over. They could have killed Gandhi anytime they wanted, and his movement would have gone dead cold. Sad truth of life.

P.S.: I'm not advocating overthrow of the government, chiefly because I don't trust any of the kind of people who would.


Image
Cause that's how I roll bounce.
 
View user's profileSend private message
Drew Linky
Wizard
Joined: Jun 12 2009
PostPosted: Dec 15 2011 11:32 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Jack Slater wrote:
P.S.: I'm not advocating overthrow of the government, chiefly because I don't trust any of the kind of people who would.

AH HA! This.


https://discord.gg/homestuck is where you can find me literally 99% of the time. Stop on by if you feel like it, we're a nice crowd.
 
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
SoldierHawk
Moderator
Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Dec 15 2011 11:47 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Jack Slater wrote:
What does it matter? The Constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper.

Seriously, it worries me as well, but there's nothing you can do about it.

I know. That's what terrifies me. Less because I'm afraid I'll be a victim of it (although I don't want that either) and more because I and the people I command are going to be the ones expected to enforce it. That prospect scares the ever loving shit out of me. Bad enough when they were considering calling up the Guard to put down the Occupy movement. This would be many, many times worse if it gets as bad as it has the potential to.


militarysignatures.com

William Shakespeare wrote:
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.

 
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailVisit poster's website
@om*d
Title: Dorakyura
Joined: Jul 10 2010
Location: Castlevania
PostPosted: Dec 16 2011 12:05 am Reply with quote Back to top

SoldierHawk wrote:
Jack Slater wrote:
What does it matter? The Constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper.

Seriously, it worries me as well, but there's nothing you can do about it.

I know. That's what terrifies me. Less because I'm afraid I'll be a victim of it (although I don't want that either) and more because I and the people I command are going to be the ones expected to enforce it. That prospect scares the ever loving shit out of me. Bad enough when they were considering calling up the Guard to put down the Occupy movement. This would be many, many times worse if it gets as bad as it has the potential to.


I was trained to follow orders. If I was ordered to shoot unarmed American civilians, I would. If you join the armed forces of the United States and you are not prepared to do this, you probably should not have joined.

I think that the draft should be brought back . The reason being that the military would not be able to be used as a pawn to do things that are generally considered terrible by a majority of people, because people would be less willing to follow idiotic orders if they were not there by choice. Also, it might make people give more of a shit about who they elect(less morons maybe?), how they treat the environment they live in and how they treat each other. Those three things seem to have gone almost completely down the drain over the past 20+ years.


Image
 
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Dec 16 2011 12:40 am Reply with quote Back to top

Jack Slater wrote:
Want to change something? You must use force. All power comes through force or the threat of it. Attempts at changing the status quo through anything less than force do not work, unless it is something willed by those already in power. Gandhi did not win through pacifism, those in power simply decided that Britain's turn at the top was over. They could have killed Gandhi anytime they wanted, and his movement would have gone dead cold. Sad truth of life.


Precisely the point of the video I posted.


There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
View user's profileSend private message
Drew Linky
Wizard
Joined: Jun 12 2009
PostPosted: Dec 16 2011 12:46 am Reply with quote Back to top

atomjacked wrote:
SoldierHawk wrote:
Jack Slater wrote:
What does it matter? The Constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper.

Seriously, it worries me as well, but there's nothing you can do about it.

I know. That's what terrifies me. Less because I'm afraid I'll be a victim of it (although I don't want that either) and more because I and the people I command are going to be the ones expected to enforce it. That prospect scares the ever loving shit out of me. Bad enough when they were considering calling up the Guard to put down the Occupy movement. This would be many, many times worse if it gets as bad as it has the potential to.


I was trained to follow orders. If I was ordered to shoot unarmed American civilians, I would. If you join the armed forces of the United States and you are not prepared to do this, you probably should not have joined.

I think that the draft should be brought back . The reason being that the military would not be able to be used as a pawn to do things that are generally considered terrible by a majority of people, because people would be less willing to follow idiotic orders if they were not there by choice. Also, it might make people give more of a shit about who they elect(less morons maybe?), how they treat the environment they live in and how they treat each other. Those three things seem to have gone almost completely down the drain over the past 20+ years.

That seems... rather cold. But understandable, from a certain view point. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I can sort of empathize.

All I know is, the little I've heard of this bill sounds really bad. I'm concerned, but the point I have has already been made: what can I do to stop it? Rally a protest?


https://discord.gg/homestuck is where you can find me literally 99% of the time. Stop on by if you feel like it, we're a nice crowd.
 
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
PostPosted: Dec 16 2011 01:07 am Reply with quote Back to top

Drew Linky wrote:
atomjacked wrote:
SoldierHawk wrote:
Jack Slater wrote:
What does it matter? The Constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper.

Seriously, it worries me as well, but there's nothing you can do about it.

I know. That's what terrifies me. Less because I'm afraid I'll be a victim of it (although I don't want that either) and more because I and the people I command are going to be the ones expected to enforce it. That prospect scares the ever loving shit out of me. Bad enough when they were considering calling up the Guard to put down the Occupy movement. This would be many, many times worse if it gets as bad as it has the potential to.


I was trained to follow orders. If I was ordered to shoot unarmed American civilians, I would. If you join the armed forces of the United States and you are not prepared to do this, you probably should not have joined.

I think that the draft should be brought back . The reason being that the military would not be able to be used as a pawn to do things that are generally considered terrible by a majority of people, because people would be less willing to follow idiotic orders if they were not there by choice. Also, it might make people give more of a shit about who they elect(less morons maybe?), how they treat the environment they live in and how they treat each other. Those three things seem to have gone almost completely down the drain over the past 20+ years.

That seems... rather cold. But understandable, from a certain view point. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I can sort of empathize.

All I know is, the little I've heard of this bill sounds really bad. I'm concerned, but the point I have has already been made: what can I do to stop it? Rally a protest?

call/email your congressman


Klimbatize wrote:
I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load

 
View user's profileSend private messageAIM AddressYahoo MessengerMSN Messenger
SoldierHawk
Moderator
Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Dec 16 2011 01:15 am Reply with quote Back to top

atomjacked wrote:
I was trained to follow orders. If I was ordered to shoot unarmed American civilians, I would. If you join the armed forces of the United States and you are not prepared to do this, you probably should not have joined.

Trained to follow lawful orders, yes. I can't personally envision a scenario in which firing on unarmed civilians would be a lawful order. In Iraq or Afghanistan, that would be called a war crime, and people--including the ones who followed orders--are currently being court martialed for just that. I would assume our own countrymen would be given the same consideration.

atomjacked wrote:
I think that the draft should be brought back . The reason being that the military would not be able to be used as a pawn to do things that are generally considered terrible by a majority of people, because people would be less willing to follow idiotic orders if they were not there by choice. Also, it might make people give more of a shit about who they elect(less morons maybe?), how they treat the environment they live in and how they treat each other. Those three things seem to have gone almost completely down the drain over the past 20+ years.

Joining the military doesn't mean you give up your agency or moral compass, wherever that may lead you. You can be a volunteer, and not follow unconscionable orders. I volunteered, and specifically became an officer, precisely to be able to have some small but positive effect on things in that way.


militarysignatures.com

William Shakespeare wrote:
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.

 
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailVisit poster's website
Jack Slater
Title: Friendly Felon
Joined: May 17 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
PostPosted: Dec 16 2011 02:01 am Reply with quote Back to top

atomjacked wrote:


I was trained to follow orders. If I was ordered to shoot unarmed American civilians, I would. If you join the armed forces of the United States and you are not prepared to do this, you probably should not have joined.
.


I can respect you staying true to your orders, for that often is the requirement of honor. You and I have clearly different honor codes, but such is life.

Would this action not conflict with the oath you took? From my view anyone giving such an order would be a domestic enemy to the Constitution.


Image
Cause that's how I roll bounce.
 
View user's profileSend private message
Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Dec 16 2011 08:48 am Reply with quote Back to top

Jack Slater wrote:
atomjacked wrote:


I was trained to follow orders. If I was ordered to shoot unarmed American civilians, I would. If you join the armed forces of the United States and you are not prepared to do this, you probably should not have joined.
.


I can respect you staying true to your orders, for that often is the requirement of honor. You and I have clearly different honor codes, but such is life.

Would this action not conflict with the oath you took? From my view anyone giving such an order would be a domestic enemy to the Constitution.

Yeah, I thought there were rules stating that refusal to follow orders like that is not considered treason.


So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind.
 
View user's profileSend private message
lavalarva
2011 SNES Champ
Joined: Dec 04 2006
PostPosted: Dec 16 2011 12:56 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
This bill brings the total authorized funding for National Defense FY2012 to $554 billion for the base budget and $115.5 billion for overseas contingency programs. Approximately $530 billion will be allocated to the Department of Defense.

I already knew you guys spent a ton of money on war stuff, but geez.

As for the bill itself, I'm having trouble figuring out what it really is with all that conspiracy stuff talk.
View user's profileSend private message
@om*d
Title: Dorakyura
Joined: Jul 10 2010
Location: Castlevania
PostPosted: Dec 16 2011 01:54 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Greg the White wrote:
Jack Slater wrote:
atomjacked wrote:


I was trained to follow orders. If I was ordered to shoot unarmed American civilians, I would. If you join the armed forces of the United States and you are not prepared to do this, you probably should not have joined.
.


I can respect you staying true to your orders, for that often is the requirement of honor. You and I have clearly different honor codes, but such is life.

Would this action not conflict with the oath you took? From my view anyone giving such an order would be a domestic enemy to the Constitution.

Yeah, I thought there were rules stating that refusal to follow orders like that is not considered treason.

It really depends on who is giving the order. Also, I was an officer, so I would have had the choice to resign my commission in such a scenario if I felt it conflicted with my morals.

Also, I don't want to sound terrible in saying I would shoot unarmed civilians, so I will clarify. If it was a mob of unarmed civilians and I was ordered to shoot them, I probably would. Obviously, they would have to seem threatening in some way for me to decide to go through it.


Image
 
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
Cattivo
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Location: Lake Michigan
PostPosted: Dec 16 2011 02:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Even I'm skeptical of this bill.

It certainly is the duty of every soldier to follow every order, but they should refuse to do anything immoral, of course. That should go without saying after all the atrocities of WW2.

Also, I agree that the draft should at least be considered. Would give a lot of people perspective on things, as well as giving them some good skills. I wish I would have served at some point, but my asthma & poor eyesight probably would have precluded that anyway. I'd like to join the naval reserves at some point, though. That might be good for me, if they'd take me.
View user's profileSend private message
SoldierHawk
Moderator
Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Dec 16 2011 02:55 pm Reply with quote Back to top

atomjacked wrote:
It really depends on who is giving the order. Also, I was an officer, so I would have had the choice to resign my commission in such a scenario if I felt it conflicted with my morals.

Absolutely.

atomjacked wrote:
Also, I don't want to sound terrible in saying I would shoot unarmed civilians, so I will clarify. If it was a mob of unarmed civilians and I was ordered to shoot them, I probably would. Obviously, they would have to seem threatening in some way for me to decide to go through it.

I don't think anyone was thinking you were terrible. The necessity of some kind of threat was clearly implied in what you said, I think.


militarysignatures.com

William Shakespeare wrote:
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.

 
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailVisit poster's website
The Opponent
Title: Forum Battle WINNER
Joined: Feb 24 2010
Location: The Danger Zone
PostPosted: Dec 16 2011 04:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

It's not horrifying because on some obscure level it sounds awesome. If it were practical, I would gladly join the military just to open a dungeon for my high school nemeses. This Is A Joke


I'm not a bad enough dude, but I am an edgy little shit. I'll do what I can.
 
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
Teralyx
Title: Master Exploder
Joined: Jun 04 2008
Location: Goldenrod City
PostPosted: Dec 16 2011 11:47 pm Reply with quote Back to top

atomjacked wrote:

I was trained to follow orders. If I was ordered to shoot unarmed American civilians, I would. If you join the armed forces of the United States and you are not prepared to do this, you probably should not have joined.

Why has nobody been seriously fucking disgusted at this throughout this whole thread? The whole "I can respect you follow orders" and "I can sort of empathize" bullshit is a cause for fucking concern.


<TheFlamingSchnitzel> Didn't your mom teach you not to punch girls?
<FigNewton> I was too busy /punchin' her/
 
View user's profileSend private message
Jack Slater
Title: Friendly Felon
Joined: May 17 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
PostPosted: Dec 17 2011 01:07 am Reply with quote Back to top

ToGdor wrote:
atomjacked wrote:

I was trained to follow orders. If I was ordered to shoot unarmed American civilians, I would. If you join the armed forces of the United States and you are not prepared to do this, you probably should not have joined.

Why has nobody been seriously fucking disgusted at this throughout this whole thread? The whole "I can respect you follow orders" and "I can sort of empathize" bullshit is a cause for fucking concern.


I can respect it because I live my life by my honor, which often leads to having to do things I don't like. That's what honor is, being true to your word. For an extreme example, say my brother turned out to be a kiddy diddler. I would be honor bound to kill him. One, in retaliation for the victimized children, and two because I don't snitch. I wouldn't want to do it, but I would have to. Failure to live up to your word results in a loss of power, and karmic injury on top of it.

FWIW, I too am disgusted at the thought of an American soldier shooting unarmed Americans. Like I said though, I can respect it, even while being disgusted.


Image
Cause that's how I roll bounce.
 
View user's profileSend private message
Teralyx
Title: Master Exploder
Joined: Jun 04 2008
Location: Goldenrod City
PostPosted: Dec 17 2011 01:13 am Reply with quote Back to top

There's a massive, massive difference between "honor" and "blindly doing whatever you're told by somebody because they have a higher rank than you, without thinking for yourself at all". I guess I can sort of respect the brother murder thing, but that's entirely different.


<TheFlamingSchnitzel> Didn't your mom teach you not to punch girls?
<FigNewton> I was too busy /punchin' her/
 
View user's profileSend private message
@om*d
Title: Dorakyura
Joined: Jul 10 2010
Location: Castlevania
PostPosted: Dec 17 2011 01:17 am Reply with quote Back to top

I just want to emphasize that American soldiers killing or attacking unarmed American (or any nationality) civilians is disgusting. I was just pointing out that those who serve have to prepare themselves for that possibility.

Also, it has happened before.


Image
 
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
Teralyx
Title: Master Exploder
Joined: Jun 04 2008
Location: Goldenrod City
PostPosted: Dec 17 2011 01:19 am Reply with quote Back to top

No, you don't have to prepare yourself for that. If you have an ounce of fucking "honor", you don't shoot unarmed civilans. If you're given the order, and you do have any semblance of "honor", you refuse or desert or something, pretty much anything /besides/ shooting the people. Again, blindly obeying orders =/= honor.


<TheFlamingSchnitzel> Didn't your mom teach you not to punch girls?
<FigNewton> I was too busy /punchin' her/
 
View user's profileSend private message
Display posts from previous:      
Reply to topic

 
 Jump to: