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Homosexual paranoia (?)


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SoldierHawk
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Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 12:36 pm Reply with quote Back to top

So on this military vets board I frequent, we're currently discussing the whole gays in the military issue. My question here isn't related to that specifically though; in fact it broaches an issue I don't think I *would* bring up anywhere but here. I'm assuming since most of the guys here are (relatively Razz ) mature and intelligent, you might be able to help me resolve it though. Also, please note that nothing I say below is to be construed as any kind of a moral judgment; it merely based on my own personal observation and the (possibly faulty) inferences I made from them.

Why is it that straight guys (in general) seem so wary of gay men? I mean, I get that some gay guys look, dress and act weird, and I get the general fear of being hit on as a straight guy...but there are plenty of straight guys who are creeps, who hit on women who don't want it too. That doesn't make me avoid men.

And understand I'm not talking about prejudice or actual homophobia here; I'm talking about the reflexive reaction most straight guys have when you ask, "would you undress in front of, or shower with, a gay man" (in a completely neutral, nonsexual group environment--the military, for example, or a sports team.) It seems to me like every straight guy, almost to a person, will say, "hell no."

And part of me gets that. I mean, would I want to go around naked in front of a bunch of guys? Well, no--at least not until our culture evolves into Starship Troopers and gender doesn't matter anymore in terms of privacy.

Here's the thing though: while I won't want to undress in front of a member of the opposite sex, I'd have very little issue doing so in front of a female, even a gay one. And I *think* most women would feel the same way. (Female members of the forum, if you're out there throw in your thoughts on this; I'm not trying to speak for you here.)

Why does there seem to be such a divide between gay and straight guys, that doesn't seem to exist (from where I sit anyway) between straight and gay women? Again, this is pure, genuine curiosity here; I'm not calling anyone a homophobe or accusing them of not being tolerant/not having gay friends/etc. Its just that the genders seem to view homosexuality differently. Either that, or there's something I'm missing. I dunno. Thoughts?


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Slayer1
Title: ,,!,, for you know who
Joined: Sep 23 2008
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 12:47 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Guys have the testosterone that makes us crazy. We don't exactly like other guys too look at us while we change or something most likely because we have the fear of them mocking us or maybe making us feel "less of a man". In the end, I thank the LORD that I have my own personal bathroom on campus.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 12:52 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Well, camaraderie among men is generally based a large extent to maleness. It's sports-pussy-violence all day, every day. Because of that, the line for straight male/gay male friendships is pretty much the same as the line for straight male/straight female friendships. Can we hang out together, even if no one else is around? Absolutely. But there are lines you don't cross and certain places where it becomes a problem. And the locker room is one of the places. A strip club is another. No, you cannot come to the strip club with us. It's weird.

The locker room thing doesn't have anything to do with sexuality or some irrational fear of buttrape. It just doesn't feel right somehow. I mean, I wouldn't change in a locker room with my dad either, and I'm at least 50% sure he wouldn't rape me.
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Rydog
Title: Dragon Slayer
Joined: Aug 11 2009
Location: Massachusetts
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 01:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I believe men in general feel that if they act like they have no problem with a gay guy undressing or doing pretty much anything with them, that people will perceive them as gay, either seriously or jokingly.

But we also could never fully accept one of our own who doesn't follow the sports-pussy-violence code....especially when it is the most important one of the three.
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Dr. Jeebus
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PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 01:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

A lot of it boils down to the fact that gay men are basically considered to be "gross", whereas the female body is considered to be the epitome of beauty. Straight women can enjoy and admire the female form and straight men are normally VERY happy to watch to lesbians get it on. However, have you ever known a straight women to watch male gay porn?


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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 01:57 pm Reply with quote Back to top

i personally dont like to get undressed in front of other guys. down to boxers, shirt off, thats ok, but completely naked, no way dood. regardless of sexual orientation. but, in terms of hanging out w/them, i have no trouble w/that. i have gay cousins, and in general, they have great personalities. i just dont like when they assume im 'curious' myself.


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Syd Lexia
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Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
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PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 02:49 pm Reply with quote Back to top

username wrote:
i personally dont like to get undressed in front of other guys. down to boxers, shirt off, thats ok, but completely naked, no way dood. regardless of sexual orientation

Yeah, actually, that's true of me as well.
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JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 03:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Dr. Jeebus wrote:
A lot of it boils down to the fact that gay men are basically considered to be "gross", whereas the female body is considered to be the epitome of beauty. Straight women can enjoy and admire the female form and straight men are normally VERY happy to watch to lesbians get it on. However, have you ever known a straight women to watch male gay porn?

Actually, I did know a straight girl in high school who thought two guys getting it on was "hot."


There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
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Syd Lexia
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PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 03:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

And that girl went on to be Christina Aguilera.
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TheRoboSleuth
Title: Sleuth Mark IV
Joined: Aug 08 2006
Location: The Gritty Future
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 03:34 pm Reply with quote Back to top

As per the "women don't like two guys getting it on",-http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YaoiGuys

In any case, my theory is that the reason anyone is even mildly comfortable with the communal shower thing is that its relatively neutral. A gay man violates that neutrality.


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Lady_Satine
Title: Head of Lexian R&D
Joined: Oct 15 2005
Location: Metro area, Georgia
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 03:35 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
And that girl went on to be Christina Aguilera.

Either that or a fragment of the legion of cat ear-wearing yaoi fangirls at anime cons.

As a bisexual, I do think a portion of it is some guys are worried about suddenly being made into someone's bitch, that they're not top dog on the sexual chain, or something to that effect. I find it amusing when a teammate finds out another guy on the team is gay, they then automatically assume they're going to be raped/that the gay player finds the straight one attractive. Of course, that's my own personal opinion.


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Hacker
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PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 07:36 pm Reply with quote Back to top

There was this gay guy in my gym class last year. He didn't make a move on anybody and we (we being the straight males) didn't care much for him. I personally wouldn't be alone in the lockerroom with for the fear of assrape



 
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Eddie_Hyde
Title: Ernie with the Disposal
Joined: Apr 13 2009
Location: Gulag
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 07:39 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Alright, I would like somebody to find for me one single instance of a purely gay rapist.


...
 
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Rydog
Title: Dragon Slayer
Joined: Aug 11 2009
Location: Massachusetts
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 07:49 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Eddie_Hyde wrote:
Alright, I would like somebody to find for me one single instance of a purely gay rapist.
This is because no man would admit to being ass raped. They would rather the person not be prosecuted and no one knowing.
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Douche McCallister
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Title: DOO-SHAY
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PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 08:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I get hit on by gay men all the time, it can be flattering surprisingly. I have some gay friends and I would have to say the only thing that makes me cringe (and I mean face crunching teeth grinding) is when they kiss. I don't know what it is. But like in Dude Where's my Car, my teeth almost shatter. Plus hanging out with gay guys scores you some chicks. "Hey Katie, this is my straight friend."

My only issue with Gay men in the locker room is that they are basically getting a free show, it would be the equivalent of Straight men changing in the ladies room.

Also we (straight men) really don't like to see cocks unless its our own. A. they are hard to not notice and B. Guys get penis envy. Girls just worry about boob size comparison wise. And it's not like a dick implant would be a good idea.


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MOGHARR
Title: The Original CandyWafer
Joined: Apr 05 2007
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PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 08:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Hacker wrote:
There was this gay guy in my gym class last year. He didn't make a move on anybody and we (we being the straight males) didn't care much for him. I personally wouldn't be alone in the lockerroom with for the fear of assrape

You sounds exactly like the assholes at my school that can't deal with the idea of gay people even existing. There's a gay kid at my school, and honestly I don't care. I don't think he will ever hit on me or try to rape me. And if he does? Well that's awesome because some gay guy thinks I'm hot (although if anyone tries to rape anyone that's seriously fucked up). He doesn't "act gay" in my opinion, I think people like this are just afraid to accept people that are different. They're just like us only they are into the same sex.

Sorry if I ripped your throat out there, but the Gay World Series is being held here soon so I've been hearing a lot of this shit this weeks.


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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 08:09 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Douche McCallister wrote:
But like in Dude Where's my Car, my teeth almost shatter.

I think the reason why that scene is so uncomfortable isn't be cause two guys are kissing, rather it is because you know that it is two straight guys kissing. I could care less if two guys want to kiss if they are into each other, but the thought of me having to kiss another guy is gut wrenching. This has nothing to do with homophobia, it has to do with limitations to a person's sexual boundaries.



 
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Rydog
Title: Dragon Slayer
Joined: Aug 11 2009
Location: Massachusetts
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 08:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

MOGHARR wrote:
I don't think he will ever hit on me or try to rape me. And if he does? Well that's awesome

That was way too easy
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Douche McCallister
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Title: DOO-SHAY
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PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 08:14 pm Reply with quote Back to top

GPFontaine wrote:
Douche McCallister wrote:
But like in Dude Where's my Car, my teeth almost shatter.

I think the reason why that scene is so uncomfortable isn't be cause two guys are kissing, rather it is because you know that it is two straight guys kissing. I could care less if two guys want to kiss if they are into each other, but the thought of me having to kiss another guy is gut wrenching. This has nothing to do with homophobia, it has to do with limitations to a person's sexual boundaries.

I don't think it's homophobia either. It's just styrofoam to me it's fine to be around ok to use but once someone starts rubbing it the noise drives me bat shit insane.


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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 08:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Douche McCallister wrote:
GPFontaine wrote:
Douche McCallister wrote:
But like in Dude Where's my Car, my teeth almost shatter.

I think the reason why that scene is so uncomfortable isn't be cause two guys are kissing, rather it is because you know that it is two straight guys kissing. I could care less if two guys want to kiss if they are into each other, but the thought of me having to kiss another guy is gut wrenching. This has nothing to do with homophobia, it has to do with limitations to a person's sexual boundaries.

I don't think it's homophobia either. It's just styrofoam to me it's fine to be around ok to use but once someone starts rubbing it the noise drives me bat shit insane.

Noted.



 
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Rydog
Title: Dragon Slayer
Joined: Aug 11 2009
Location: Massachusetts
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 08:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

^ evil
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ChiSoxFan
Title: Chicago Sports Fan
Joined: May 11 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 08:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Back when I was in college, I had this roommate who was gay. That never bothered me, we got along great, and we even moved into an apartment with another friend of ours later on, and lived there for two years. We'd joke around and stuff, but we knew our limitations, and never crossed them. We just moved out this summer, and we went our separate ways.

The other night, we were both on yahoo, and he started talking to me, all normal. We were having a nice conversation, and then he asks me "Can I tell you something if you promise you won't freak out?" I go "Sure" and then he proceeds to tell me that he has had a big crush on me for about 1 1/2 years now and begins to pour his heart out to me, telling me he thought I was the cutest guy, that he really wished that I was gay so that he could have me, etc.

Needless to say, that caught me more than a little off-guard. He said "I know you're straight, so this is more on my shoulders than anything...I just needed to get that off my chest." I was literally taken aback. I didn't know how to respond...I told him that I appreciated his honesty, but that yes, I am straight. I felt real bad for him, because I've been on the same boat (towards girls).

I kinda feel guilty for reacting the way I did...was I in the wrong?
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JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Sep 10 2009 08:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
And that girl went on to be Christina Aguilera.


No she didn't, other wise my head would have exploded from the sheer jealousy of not getting to fuck her.


There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
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SoldierHawk
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Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
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PostPosted: Sep 11 2009 01:03 am Reply with quote Back to top

ChiSoxFan wrote:
Back when I was in college, I had this roommate who was gay. That never bothered me, we got along great, and we even moved into an apartment with another friend of ours later on, and lived there for two years. We'd joke around and stuff, but we knew our limitations, and never crossed them. We just moved out this summer, and we went our separate ways.

The other night, we were both on yahoo, and he started talking to me, all normal. We were having a nice conversation, and then he asks me "Can I tell you something if you promise you won't freak out?" I go "Sure" and then he proceeds to tell me that he has had a big crush on me for about 1 1/2 years now and begins to pour his heart out to me, telling me he thought I was the cutest guy, that he really wished that I was gay so that he could have me, etc.

Needless to say, that caught me more than a little off-guard. He said "I know you're straight, so this is more on my shoulders than anything...I just needed to get that off my chest." I was literally taken aback. I didn't know how to respond...I told him that I appreciated his honesty, but that yes, I am straight. I felt real bad for him, because I've been on the same boat (towards girls).

I kinda feel guilty for reacting the way I did...was I in the wrong?


I don't see how. Its not like you went nuts on the guy. I mean, its sad when someone really really likes someone else who doesn't return their feelings (for whatever reason), but hey, that's life. I think we've all been there. I don't see what else you could have done under the circumstances. Just letting him talk and not freaking out was probably the best thing you could have done.

And, thanks for all the ideas and perspectives, guys. Really, really interesting read.


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William Shakespeare wrote:
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.

 
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
PostPosted: Sep 11 2009 01:11 am Reply with quote Back to top

SoldierHawk wrote:
ChiSoxFan wrote:
Back when I was in college, I had this roommate who was gay. That never bothered me, we got along great, and we even moved into an apartment with another friend of ours later on, and lived there for two years. We'd joke around and stuff, but we knew our limitations, and never crossed them. We just moved out this summer, and we went our separate ways.

The other night, we were both on yahoo, and he started talking to me, all normal. We were having a nice conversation, and then he asks me "Can I tell you something if you promise you won't freak out?" I go "Sure" and then he proceeds to tell me that he has had a big crush on me for about 1 1/2 years now and begins to pour his heart out to me, telling me he thought I was the cutest guy, that he really wished that I was gay so that he could have me, etc.

Needless to say, that caught me more than a little off-guard. He said "I know you're straight, so this is more on my shoulders than anything...I just needed to get that off my chest." I was literally taken aback. I didn't know how to respond...I told him that I appreciated his honesty, but that yes, I am straight. I felt real bad for him, because I've been on the same boat (towards girls).

I kinda feel guilty for reacting the way I did...was I in the wrong?


I don't see how. Its not like you went nuts on the guy. I mean, its sad when someone really really likes someone else who doesn't return their feelings (for whatever reason), but hey, that's life. I think we've all been there. I don't see what else you could have done under the circumstances. Just letting him talk and not freaking out was probably the best thing you could have done.

And, thanks for all the ideas and perspectives, guys. Really, really interesting read.

i personally think that your gay roommate put you in a very unnecessary and awkward position. he gave you an unwarranted guilt trip. and peronsally, i think thats BS. when he asked you to not be freaked out, i immediately knew he was going to express his love for you, and that sucks, cause he's your friend and you dont want to hurt his feelings, but you're gonna feel guilty cause he's still going to get hurt simply because you are straight.

anyhow, i thought it was BS and those are my 2 cents


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