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School shooting in Tennessee


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Kubo
Joined: Aug 24 2005
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
PostPosted: Nov 08 2005 05:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I know this is a little different than most topics that get started on this forum, but I figured the tagline, "Talk about whatever the fuck you want." allows this topic to apply.

Anyway, some punk kid went ape shit in Tennessee a little while ago and shot some teachers and administrators at his school. Being that I was a senior in high school when the Columbine shootings went down, I was just wondering about all of your opinions regarding this type of shit. I assume we're pretty much all between the ages of 18 and 26 or so. .. so this issue has floated around a good chunk of our high school years.

I remember watching the whole Columbine thing go down live on TV. After watching that, I really wish all these kids that do this shit would face trial as adults and put down like animals, considering they don't off themselves in the process first. On another side note, I can't stand blaming video games, music, or TV. I blame the kids themselves, with their parents coming in a close second. Gah... sorry for the rant. I just get tired of these asshat kids shooting up their schools because they think their lives are so terrible. Mad


Thou, because I am wroth, be not dismayed, for I shall win the strife, whoever circle round within for the defence. This their insolence is not new, for of old they used it at a less secret gate, which still is found without a bolt. Above it thou didst see the dead inscription; and already on this side of it
descends the steep, passing without escort through the circles,
One such that by him the city shall be opened to us.
 
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Nov 08 2005 05:48 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The whole school shooting really gets to me. I mean, I remember when kids who got picked on would suck it up, fight their way through high school, go to college, and then make something of themselves. And that would be their revenge, going back to that 10 year reunion and laughing at all those burnt-out old bullies who still think they're hot shit. But most of all, I remember the first time I saw the movie Heathers and how ridiculously funny I thought it was. You could never make a movie like that now. Well, I suppose you could, but no one would laugh.
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Kubo
Joined: Aug 24 2005
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
PostPosted: Nov 08 2005 06:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
The whole school shooting really gets to me. I mean, I remember when kids who got picked on would suck it up, fight their way through high school, go to college, and then make something of themselves. And that would be their revenge, going back to that 10 year reunion and laughing at all those burnt-out old bullies who still think they're hot shit. But most of all, I remember the first time I saw the movie Heathers and how ridiculously funny I thought it was. You could never make a movie like that now. Well, I suppose you could, but no one would laugh.



I have a firm dislike for the bully excuse as well... thousands of kids get picked on every day and don't take it upon themselves to turn their school into a shooting ground. Weak ass kids that don' t listen + bitchass parents that don't parent = warped kids


Thou, because I am wroth, be not dismayed, for I shall win the strife, whoever circle round within for the defence. This their insolence is not new, for of old they used it at a less secret gate, which still is found without a bolt. Above it thou didst see the dead inscription; and already on this side of it
descends the steep, passing without escort through the circles,
One such that by him the city shall be opened to us.
 
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Tebor
Moderator
Title: Master of the Universe
Joined: Aug 22 2005
Location: Gotham City
PostPosted: Nov 09 2005 03:04 am Reply with quote Back to top

This is well timed. I started writing a screenplay today about a high school four years after a school shooting incident. I think the aftermath is usually the better story anyway.

While I do not condone school shootings IN ANY WAY, what does piss me off are people who exploit it. Namely, the family of Rachael Joy Scott. Also, I am always bugged by a clip in Bowling for Columbine which has a girl saying "and he shot the black kid, because he was black". She just reminds me of a dozen girls I know who would... well, I'm going to get in trouble if I finish this sentence and I'm not personally around to debate in person... so I'll just say the clip bugs me.

Do I hate Michael Moore? Hell no. As a filmmaker, I love Moore's sense of humor and film style. His politics and me are so-so, but he made me think documentaries were cool when The Big One first came out (yes, that's how long I've been a fan). So don't mistake my attitude towards a clip to represent some hatred I have toward Moore. Although I know a lot of people think he exploited it and what-not.

Back to school shootings... I could go on, but maybe later. I'll let a few more people post their opinions.


"If you will not tell me, I will hurt people!!!" -Nuclear Man

"Do you hear? The alpha and the omega. Death and rebirth. And as you die, so will I be reborn!" - Skeletor

8341 unread forum updates since I left (2/7/14)... Uh-oh.
 
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Rycona
Moderator
Title: The Maestro
Joined: Nov 01 2005
Location: Away from Emerald Weapon
PostPosted: Nov 09 2005 11:40 am Reply with quote Back to top

When it comes to such things as this, I have always mainly blamed the parents. It is the children's fault also, yes, but the parents must have done something horridly wrong in order for them to obtain that potential mentality. I believe a lot of kids today are going down the shitter because of bad parenting. I mean, I'm all for women's right =-=cough=-=, but the fact is that two working parents usually equals a bad home environment for yound children.

If they aren't there raising their child then who is? Some babysitter who also wasn't raised right and has no idea how children should be cared for psychologically. They generally ignore them, put them to bed early, and watch TV. Granted, this is during the night.

If it's during the daytime, the child is watched by some partially overweight middle-aged woman who never had children of her own and is too caught up in soap operas and eating bon-bons to learn.

I realize that I'm using many stereotypes for my stand and I know there are exceptions, don't get me wrong. This is just what I've come to over the years of dealing with bad kids, parents, and people in general. One could say my background is a major influence in my bias, since I've been on my own since 13, but I'm not shooting schools up, nor am I doing anything so dastardly.

With that point made, I must conted that the kids themselves have the power of introspection and try to fix these "broken morals." I honestly think they should start having classes for young students teaching them about introspection and solving their problems without giving the rest of America another reason to create/beat down a scapegoat. The whole blaming media thing is getting pretty old and pretty dull. If parents brought up their kids right, televisions, movies, and games inclusive, then most likely they would understand the line between real life and media. I almost want to go into something aobut the FCC, but that's not what this thread is about; I think I've stretched it enough already.

Oh yea, school shootings are dumb and those causing them should be tried as adults. Committing murder on purpose is what it is, regardless of age, and anyone who can pull of such a thing has to have something done about them for they have something up with their mentality. I'd like to add also on that note that I favor the death penalty, one of the few things I like about Texas, if not the only thing.


RIP Hacker.
 
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OctoMan
Joined: Aug 22 2005
PostPosted: Nov 09 2005 04:37 pm Reply with quote Back to top

*Sigh*... there's been another shooting here in Canada which you can read about here, though it's not clear who the shooter was yet.

Syd Lexia wrote:
I mean, I remember when kids who got picked on would suck it up, fight their way through high school, go to college, and then make something of themselves. And that would be their revenge, going back to that 10 year reunion and laughing at all those burnt-out old bullies who still think they're hot shit.


Yeah... I don't want to say any more because I don't want to sound like an asshole, but suffice it to say that that's been true in my experience.

I just wish everyone could get along no matter what kind of music or sports or clothes you like... I mean, it works on this forum.
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B.B.King
Title: Total Fucking Loser
Joined: Aug 25 2005
Location: Truck stops and gay bars
PostPosted: Nov 09 2005 04:55 pm Reply with quote Back to top

you wouldn't know it,but canada is bad for gun threats . i live in a little town called Brantford (birthplace of wayne gretzkey,and where the phone was invented) and already in the 3 short months,there has been a shotgun incident outside of my school,and 2 kids who got caught with handguns approaching the school.
at the other schools in the city,there have been numorus gun incidents already,and they only seem to be increasing as the white suburban kids who are a little heavy on the rap culture start thinking they are "gangster" and have something to prove.


I am a worthless piece of crap.
 
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SamanthaMcPoopenstein
Title: Gadabout Ragamuffin
Joined: Aug 29 2005
Location: tx
PostPosted: Nov 10 2005 10:30 am Reply with quote Back to top

It pisses me off that this has happened because you know everyone out there is going to blame everything except for the deranged asshole who committed the crime. The parents won't have the blame pinned on them, and all the idiots out there are thinking, "why would an innocent child do this...? Must be the TV/videogames/movies/music/internet!!!"

(If anything, with all the crappy TV shows with 'morals' these days, TV would've probably provided this dumbass kid with advice! One of those, don't give up no matter how desperate you get, kind of things.)

Tons of kids are bullied, but they don't pick up the 'ol pistol. And you know, I'm pretty sure more kids bring knives to school to threaten/actually stab the people that bully them than guns, and we never hear about those incidents unless they happen locally. And even then, you don't have the crazy old folks waving signs to shut down that blasphemous MTV!

(btw, have you guys heard of a new study that showed all the older generations who oppose "violent" videogames are the same generation who, back in the day, were trying to convince their own parents that rock'n'roll wasn't evil? I wonder if they see they've come full circle?)

Anyway, I hope the bastard is tried as an adult.
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greeneyedzeke
Joined: Aug 25 2005
PostPosted: Nov 10 2005 11:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

This very issue is the reason I chose to study social psychology as an undergrad and why I'm trying to persue a PhD in the area now (if only a damn school would accept me...). I'm not of the mind that the media we interact with affects our judgment enough to make us want to kill those who bully us. It *has* been shown in the past that there can be a temporary spike in aggressive thoughts immediately after playing a game like "Mortal Kombat" (I don't have the reference handy... but they actually had males and females play each other in a round of the game and found that males' aggression didn't increase that much when they lost to another guy but it DID increase when the girl smacked them around), but a longterm effect of the type that Jack Thompson keeps claiming exists has never been proven. One major issue with most of the video game studies out there is that, while the experimenters try to control for age/sex/socioeconomic patterns/and a rudimentary sense of "gamer/nongamer" delineation, they never consider some of the other factors that ONLY someone who really "gets" games would think about. Hell, even in the study I just mentioned... what if coincidentally the guys had more of a background with the game than the girls and the girls were button mashers who won by sheer luck? Maybe that's why they got angry. (Note that this is just an example... I know PLENTY of girls who are genuinely skilled gamers and kick my ass repeatedly). In some cases, the games that the experimenters use in their studies are just shitty games all around. They're not any fun to play. There could be a rise in frustration simply because the game's controls suck or there are glitches galore.

But yeah. I also understand fully that plenty of people are bullied and never pick up a gun and take revenge. I DO believe that people have different thresholds and some are going to be far more sensitive than others. In the case of something like Klebold and Harris, they were picked on and, even worse, with their parents ignoring the fact that they were MAKING PIPE BOMBS IN THEIR BEDROOMS, the only real source of attention they had was each other... that probably has a lot to do with why their plans spiraled so dramatically out of control. I *did* hear a psychologist speak once about Columbine and he pointed out that the incidence of bullying in that school climate was the worst he'd ever encountered.

It's funny that people keep picking up on the fact that K and H reference "DOOM" in the video tape they made prior to the shootings. They seem to miss the references the boys make to the fame their actions will gain them. At one point, they even say that Quentin Tarantino will probably make a movie about them. The fault, in my mind, lies with parents turning over control to the media at large. I'm not talking about the movies and video games and music media we take in, though. I mean the newsmedia and the social fascinations that seem to dictate our lives. Let's face it. "Natural Born Killers" made the point beautifully: our society glorifies and memorializes bad people. That's why Charles Manson has his own t-shirt and most people couldn't tell you Gandhi's first name. K and H wanted to get back at their enemies and they wanted people to pay attention to them. A week after the massacre, they were on the cover of Time. Mission accomplished.

The saddest part, to me, is how now a lot of good kids are getting shafted. Right after Columbine every kid who walked around in a trench coat was suddently suspect. Schools outright BANNED them altogether. I actually used to wear one frequently and I got more than a few comments (and one guy gunning his car engine at me while he told me I was scum). Now the politicians, unwilling to piss off the "of voting age" parents are putting a band-aid on the problem by trying to force the kids to smile and act like everything's fine, while simultaneously attacking anything tangentially related to their lives. In a lot of cases, the "violent music" or whatever is an outlet for them. Back in '97, Raymond Kuntz appeared before a Senate committee lead by Joe Lieberman and Sam Brownback. In his testimony, he blamed Marilyn Manson's "Antichrist Superstar" for urging son to kill himself. Apparently it was the last thing he listened to before pulling the trigger (and, oh how he dragged out the lyrics to "The Reflecting God" to increase the drama). Anyway, he later said that his son was a good kid... a good kid who took a swastika off his bike ramp after his dad told him it wasn't a good thing to have on there. Again, a misattribution of blame... Marilyn Manson... swastika... Marilyn Manson... swastika... Maybe there was more going on than the father was willing to see. Maybe that album was what kept him from committing suicide sooner.

Anyway, I've already gone on at length and it's late so I'm probably mashing my thoughts together, but yeah... this topic is huge for me.
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