as for the whole what matters, graphics, gameplay, or story-line... It really depends on the setting.. in a FPS, it's graphics adn gameplay that matter.. You need the graphic power to create a realistic setting, and preferably have a gaming engine that can make the graphics accurately depict the environment, adn posistion of other players, so you can interact with it appropiately. Secondly the game play needs to be fluid in order so that people can freely select amongst many choices, as this will give a sense of realism of being ni teh environment (if it's hard to move in an open space, becasue the controls suck, it hardly feels your in an open space), and secondly fluidity in actauly game play, will allow for skill to make a more prevalent role, because it allows for more actions, and reactions to quickly happen.

However let's say you're into RPG's... Gameplay, and graphics while important, it's important to have a story that doesn't bore you, or seem idiotic... You want people to have a reason they want to continue on with the game, and actaully have an invested interest in a character's fate, and how a character interacts.. Because it might be intriguing to see too certain personality types interact... or have say a back story of person's physical talents, it can be interesting to have them demonstrate them.. maybe it's a fighting game, and the main character, and your evil dark enemy, actualyl had the same trainer when they were young, they just took different paths, and their fightings art have subsequently diverged... both are extremly deadly, and both are on a collision course for the other. Virtue and Vice coming together to clash.

In that setting graphics can help you get into the world being created, but isn't the most fundamental part of it, and gameplay can make the fighting more interesting or more intense, but that's not what's making the players interested in beathing this foe... You're interested in resolving the conflict... Gameplay is important, I agree but i wouldn't ignore the others.. take them out of a game.. you can be some sqaure, fighting triangles (horrible graphics), and all you do is fight the same triangle over and over again, and it takes two hits to kill it, and the triangle doesn't attack you back.. and teh gameplay could be awesome, and people wouldn't touch it.

Turn those triangle and sqaures, a intensely detailed soldier, verse a 5 years old little ninja kid... give them both a unique set of moves.. the soldier has the powerful htis, but the ninja kid and teleport once every 2minutes, and can throw darts.. while the should can sprint, and whip out a shield to reflect darts back at the kid..

Well now you've created an environment, as well as a basic story concept david verse goliath... and through that you made it challenging, interesting, adn emersive.

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i have a question: what exactly makes a game 'mature'?

Depends what sense of the word mature you mean... a Mature rating, or a game that will attract mature players.


Generally speaking a mature game will allow for thigns that give it an M rating, such as profanity, blood, gore etc... But really it has to deal with the deepness of the game, and what elements are the focus of entertainment. Generally they are more serious life altering issues, that are important for everyone whether you recognize it or not... Maybe a game about war, or a game about political upheavel .. These are some aspects that make a game more mature. BAsically i think the difference becomes when you are younger you live more for the moment, or with a self-centered perspective, but as you get older and begin to see how you effect things and how things effect you, and are given more responsibilities or have to take them on, you get a wider perspective (to some degree) of the workings of the world, and you are basically forced to contemplate more pressing matters that effect people's lives. That's not an accurate definition... not sufficient at least, there is more to it than that.

If i had to break it up into a list, of what makes a mature games for say a mature player it woudl be:

1.) intricasy/depth (the game isn't like go collect lollipops) (it might be go disable these bombs, which might be similar, but it'd have a more profound reason behind it, and when you're older you can appreciate that more, and be more interested in the game... Also you simply become more knowledable, understanding, and rational, to some degree when you're older, i'm not trying to say young=dumb, or the older the better)
2.) nature of the content (basically it's a mixture of what kind of material are we looking at, and what level of depth are we analyzing it at, and interpetating it at)
3.) setting/conveying (does the setting express what the game is about well, is it clear and consistent, this is needed to create a mature game, if you take this a way it can be distracting and take much from the story, and feel of the game)

Anyway, I'm sorry I have never attempted to classify, exactly what i mean if i say a game is childish, or if i say a game is for adults or mature... That'll have to do for now, but i want to add more to clarify, and extend.. becasue another key feature of a mature game, is it'll have events or thigns happen that you need a certain mental preparedness/experience in dealing with... this isn't a neccessity but rather just a trade-mark, a lot of younger audience games are light hearted, without any horrify scenes, events, or thoughts... It opens up a range of things you acn put into a game as your audience is more adept at dealing with those kinds of topics/issues.

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im not trying to call you or anyone out, just trying to point out the silliness in what is considered a 'mature' game and syd pointed that out in the previous post.

Well I would say there is a distinguishable difference, between something for kids and something for adults, becasue there is a experience gap between the two, as well as different societal roles (which gives different insights into things, basically can be bundled in with experience gap), and lastly mentally because we've grown physically, and had more experience, we actually have differnent ways of looking at things, and different things catch our interest.. if it's an overly/very simple or straight foreward game it likely (not neccessarily), won't be as attractive/considered a game for mature individuals.

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i appreciate the effort in trying to define this, but w/this list, why isnt simcity considered/rated mature? or even age of empires?

Well i think those can be either category, if you play them deeply enough ya, you'll have very mature audiences mastering AoE, or playing Sim City, by the same token, you can have kids, who can have fun at the game, playing it more liesurely.

Both people are playing the game, but both peopel are enjoying it for different reasons.. in AoE younger audiences might be like wow i can attack stuff, or eww look at that huge ship.

And while that may also seem cool to more mature audiences, there are other elements in the game, such as teh strategy, options in teh game, as well as teh goal of defeating opponents, through crippling them and helping yourself economically, and of course actually attacking their units/structures.

And I'd like to add I don't think a definition of a mature game ought not have some overlap with say "Neutral games" like maybe pacman, everyone can enjoy it...

Pretty much any RTS or FPS will fall under a mature game list, as well as a kid game list, because of both parties being able to relate to it, as well as both parties being able to like different aspects of the game.

You talk to a kid, and an adult about halo, they'll tell you tottally different stories, about what they like about the game... They'll be overlap, like I side, a giant ship in AoE can be a entertaining thought to both groups, but that's not what's reelin' in the mature player to play it, while that could be teh sole reason a younger generation individual chooses to play that game.

It's easy to see what will get somethign an M rating.. a in depth story line, with a very deep game mechanic, won't... get the M rating, even though i'd contend mature games woudl be attracted to it.

Putting violence in/blood whatever.. will that's how the game raters do it... is this information, if a younger person had it appropiate, and that's all.

But what games attract mature gamers, adn what games attract younger players, that type of classfication, will give you a different definition of a mature game.

It's kind of like kids can like LotR and so can adults, but many of the scenes teh kids find interesting, perhaps the adults didn't, and veryt likely to be true, many of the events that adults liked the kids didn't.. I enjoyed seeing how frodo and Company got his weapons from that elf chick.. sting, the star/light that can light up anywhere, the special bread... that was moderatlely intriguing....

Maybe i'll think about this more, and give you a more solid definition, but ya i think there will be games that overlap, but for different reasons.. and there are going to be just neutral games .

But to say that there is no distinction between say mature content, and content for younger audiences, i would contend is silly, i think pretty apparent there is, even if its' hard to define what you mean when you say that.

I think my definition is satisfactory, and I gave some reasoning why it'd be the case, but it coudl be expressed better, and defined a bit more clearly.

I think people agree with things being unsuitable for younger audiences such as sexual refrences, strong langauge etc.. etc..

Because children haven't neccessarily built up the preparedness to deal with such scenarios, such as abusive langauge, and may get the wrong impression as to it's use, whcih can ultimately harm others..

As for the sexual content and blood and gore... Parents don't neccessariyl want to tune their kids into those subjects until they feel they're ready to deal with it and udnerstand it. I mean sex has some very real risks, and it's not just STD's but pregnancies and the like.. and children, if they see sex as glamorized or nothing, may make poor choices, or uneducated choices, becasue they don't see the full scope of things... You see a lot of teenage girls today ( or some), who are like i want to get pregnant, i'm having sex with whoever i want, and i want to have a baby, they don't grasp what havin' a child is like, any vision on what it's goign to do with prospect for their future, social life, and how much it can cripple their potential, and current standard of living. And also to have a kid under the circumstances, with someone you care for and that will stick around.

I think that classification of what should be for everyone, and what should be for adults, is a good one...

but taht's what games will get a M-rating...

What games will attract mature audiences verses younger audiences, don't neccessariyl ahve to be games rated M... or anything like that.

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Is maturity a virtue?

I think there are advantages to have a clean-slate (yougner perspective) view on things.. I think a lot of time ignorance of a lot of problems with life, personal and abraod, makes things a lot easier to digest, life a lot more cheeful and happy.

But ultimate i think a fuller and more complete picture of the world is what I would want, I'm more under the persuasion i want to understand things for how they are whether it makes me happy or sad. And I think having fair and just views is a virtue, and i think that is associated with maturity. But I think the kind of definition of "mature gamer" we're talking about i think can get away without having those views, and still be considered a mature gamer.

So i think we need to distinguish what we mean between say a mature gamer, and a mature person.

Becasue you can be mature about different aspects of your life. So I woudl agree with syd that just becuase you like more mature games, doesn't mean your a better person or anything... I just think as you get older you have do build up different prefrenecs for what kind of games you enjoy.

I would say generally speaking mature games are of more interest than games aimed at younger audiences, simply because in those games you have the option of enjoying the things on teh surface, such as pretty graphics, big explosions etc.. but you also have the choice of delving into it deeper and getting more into the gnitty gritty parts of the game (i'm not talking about number crunching), but just the parts of the game that allow you to be more involed whether it be story line, or gameplay.


Edit: Just because a game may be mroe suited for a mature audiences, doesn't automatically make it better than other games, there are plenty of crappy games intended for mature audiences.. I would say it gives it more potential though, and longevity. But i'm not saying mature games > all other games... If you like a game that's up to you, i'm just saying mature games have more potential for being enjoyable, because of the multiple layers you can play them at, for people of all ages/groups.