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Joined: Aug 26 2007 Posts: 2752

I did not know this:

wikipeda says wrote:

The first Nuclear Man from Superman IV: The Quest for Peace, played by British actor Clive Mantle.

According to writer Mark Rosenthal's commentary on Superman IV: The Quest for Peace Deluxe Edition DVD released in November 2006, and the gallery of deleted scenes included on the disc, there are approximately 45 minutes of the film that have not been seen by the public after they were deleted following a failed Southern California test screening. In fact, the Nuclear Man that appears in the film is actually the second Nuclear Man Luthor created. Cut scenes featured the original Nuclear Man engaging Superman in battle outside the Metro Club and being destroyed by the Man of Steel. The first Nuclear Man was somewhat more inhuman-looking than his successor, and resembled vaguely in looks, and significantly in personality, the comic book character Bizarro. Luthor postulates that this Nuclear Man was not strong enough, and hatches the plan to create the second Nuclear Man inside the sun as a result. The comic book adaptation of the film, as well as the novelization, depicts these scenes and several photos of Superman's battle with the first Nuclear Man can be seen online. Three of the "lost" minutes, consisting of two scenes (the "tornado scene", in which Christopher Reeve's daughter Alexandra plays the girl swept away by the tornado; and the "Moscow" sequence, in which Superman stops a nuclear missile from being launched) were used in the international release by Cannon Films, and in the U.S. syndicated television version prepared by Viacom. At one point the producers of this film considered using all of this footage (and presumably shooting new footage) into a fifth film (see Superman Lives), but the poor box office performance of this film led that idea to be scrapped. Rosenthal commented on the DVD commentary that this showed just how out of touch Cannon was with reality.

The original 2-hour 14-minute preview version has never been seen outside its ill-fated Southern California test screening. There had been rumors that this version, including all the deleted scenes described above, of the film was shown only one known time, on the SFM Holiday Network in 1989. In actuality, another film that co-starred Christopher Reeve was shown on SFM, and this is where the misconception originated. A spokesman for SFM later confirmed that the full version never aired on television.

Warner Bros. confirmed in an early 2006 Internet chat room session that the lost footage was found, and approx. 30 minutes of the footage were included in a "deleted scenes" section of the 2006 DVD box set, The Ultimate Superman Collection. The footage is presumably taken from an original workprint, as visual effects are not complete, music is consisted from stock elements and the first film's soundtrack, and the film is in a very rough state.

So apparently Luther made a proto nuclear man and he got is ass kicked.

You know what's sad, i actually liked Superman III and IV when i was a kid. Now i don't know what to think.

Posted: Dec 18 2007 03:41 am

Oh, Clive Mantle. See, I remember Clive from "Alien 3" so for YEARS I imagined him from that movie as Nuclear Man I. I also LOVED the script and the comic adaptation (hell, even the junior novelization) of that character.

I did see the footage they released on the latest DVD and Clive's performance is not what I saw in my head. That said, I still rather enjoyed his character. He was this gay, Baby Huey-type creature, which while an interesting interpretation doesn't quite work in a Superman film. First, it supports that all big dumb creatures can only be instruments of destruction (a message I've never really liked). Second was that Nuclear Man I was to Superman IV as Ash was to Streets of Rage III. I can see that the screenwriters had intended Nuclear Man I to be more like Bizarro and they are similar enough to convince someone that he is Bizarro; just as how robo-lady in Superman III can be called Metallo and Gus Gorman Brianiac (more on Gus later).

So, yes, I know about Nuclear Man I and I do still love him, but he's still not the pinnacle epitome of MAN! Twisted Evil

====
Okay, now my IN THE DEFENSE OF SUPERMAN III speal

First, I'm still not a big fan of III. I like the TV version more than the theatrical, but even that has severe problems. One problem with III is that it has less action than "Superman Returns" and its Superman is more of douchebag than that one! But the sole reason why Superman III can still kick Superman Returns' ass is that Superman vs. Clark Kent fight. Say what you will (and how laughable a lot of the graphics are) that scene is amazing. Even Christopher Reeve in "Still Me" wrote that he loved that sequence.

Now, like "Superman IV", "Superman III" had the shit beaten out of it. First, WB had no idea what they wanted to do to follow up "Superman II". Richard Donner was gone, Gene Hackman was out, Margot Kidder was contracted to be in it but didn't want to do it, etc. Pretty much the idea was to introduce a new villain from the Superman comics and that character was Brainiac.

Holy God! That sounds awesome, WTF happened? Well, an early treatment has finally escaped: http://www.supermancinema.co.uk/superman3/general/script/s3_original_idea.pdf

Read that? No? Good, don't. 'Nough said. That treatment doesn't just prove how clueless the Salkinds were, but they could've ruined Brianiac and Supergirl for the rest of eternity. However, it does show that they had NO IDEA what they wanted to do, but they NEEDED to get a third film out fast (hell, Superman II ends with: Coming soon Superman III).

Enter Richard Pryor joking on some talk show that he wants to be in Superman. Considering how screwed the production was already, Salkind figured what the hell? Pryor brings in the green.

There has been talk of this other 'version' of the story that Gus Gorman was only an alias of Brianiac who acted like a stooge to get his computer made and the film ended with Metallo getting created and fought Superman. If I saw "Superman III" and Richard Pryor suddenly stopped being a doofus and acted EVIL, I'd probably shit my pants and forgive whatever the hell had happened to that point. It seriously would've been a twist that no one would've seen coming. Of course, they didn't go that way and we got Ross Webster.... *yawn*

So "Superman III", what do we think of thy? I've seen it about 50 times and there's a lot of things I do like about it, but it really is the weakest of the Reeve films and by a large margin. Why Bryan Singer thought his film should be more like it than Superman II, I'll never know. But Superman III could've been good and I sometimes remember the film as the one I see in my head more than the one we got. That's my two cents anyway.

Man, I love those Superman films. :')

Joined: Feb 24 2006 Posts: 2578

Holy crap, I didn't realize that Superman IV footage was in the box set! Heck, I didn't even know any of it had been found.

I don't suppose it's on the stand alone disc?

Posted: Dec 18 2007 02:24 pm

DarkMaze wrote:

Holy crap, I didn't realize that Superman IV footage was in the box set! Heck, I didn't even know any of it had been found.

I don't suppose it's on the stand alone disc?

It is indeed, but be warned! It's almost 30 of the 45 minutes cut. That means no Clark visiting his parent's graves, no interiors of the Metro Club (I assume the workprint had copywritten music on it which WB didn't want to clear), and no Lenny cleaning up Nuclear Man I's remains.

So basically it's like watching the deleted scenes on The Goonies when you know more footage exists for the convenience store scene.

Joined: Aug 26 2007 Posts: 2752

Tebor wrote:

Oh, Clive Mantle. See, I remember Clive from "Alien 3" so for YEARS I imagined him from that movie as Nuclear Man I. I also LOVED the script and the comic adaptation (hell, even the junior novelization) of that character.

I did see the footage they released on the latest DVD and Clive's performance is not what I saw in my head. That said, I still rather enjoyed his character. He was this gay, Baby Huey-type creature, which while an interesting interpretation doesn't quite work in a Superman film. First, it supports that all big dumb creatures can only be instruments of destruction (a message I've never really liked). Second was that Nuclear Man I was to Superman IV as Ash was to Streets of Rage III. I can see that the screenwriters had intended Nuclear Man I to be more like Bizarro and they are similar enough to convince someone that he is Bizarro; just as how robo-lady in Superman III can be called Metallo and Gus Gorman Brianiac (more on Gus later).

So, yes, I know about Nuclear Man I and I do still love him, but he's still not the pinnacle epitome of MAN! Twisted Evil

====
Okay, now my IN THE DEFENSE OF SUPERMAN III speal

First, I'm still not a big fan of III. I like the TV version more than the theatrical, but even that has severe problems. One problem with III is that it has less action than "Superman Returns" and its Superman is more of douchebag than that one! But the sole reason why Superman III can still kick Superman Returns' ass is that Superman vs. Clark Kent fight. Say what you will (and how laughable a lot of the graphics are) that scene is amazing. Even Christopher Reeve in "Still Me" wrote that he loved that sequence.

Now, like "Superman IV", "Superman III" had the shit beaten out of it. First, WB had no idea what they wanted to do to follow up "Superman II". Richard Donner was gone, Gene Hackman was out, Margot Kidder was contracted to be in it but didn't want to do it, etc. Pretty much the idea was to introduce a new villain from the Superman comics and that character was Brainiac.

Holy God! That sounds awesome, WTF happened? Well, an early treatment has finally escaped: http://www.supermancinema.co.uk/superman3/general/script/s3_original_idea.pdf

Read that? No? Good, don't. 'Nough said. That treatment doesn't just prove how clueless the Salkinds were, but they could've ruined Brianiac and Supergirl for the rest of eternity. However, it does show that they had NO IDEA what they wanted to do, but they NEEDED to get a third film out fast (hell, Superman II ends with: Coming soon Superman III).

Enter Richard Pryor joking on some talk show that he wants to be in Superman. Considering how screwed the production was already, Salkind figured what the hell? Pryor brings in the green.

There has been talk of this other 'version' of the story that Gus Gorman was only an alias of Brianiac who acted like a stooge to get his computer made and the film ended with Metallo getting created and fought Superman. If I saw "Superman III" and Richard Pryor suddenly stopped being a doofus and acted EVIL, I'd probably shit my pants and forgive whatever the hell had happened to that point. It seriously would've been a twist that no one would've seen coming. Of course, they didn't go that way and we got Ross Webster.... *yawn*

So "Superman III", what do we think of thy? I've seen it about 50 times and there's a lot of things I do like about it, but it really is the weakest of the Reeve films and by a large margin. Why Bryan Singer thought his film should be more like it than Superman II, I'll never know. But Superman III could've been good and I sometimes remember the film as the one I see in my head more than the one we got. That's my two cents anyway.

Man, I love those Superman films. :')

So wait, nuclear man was suppose to be Bizarro, Webster's Sister was suppose to be Metallo and Gus . . . Gus! was suppose to be Brainiac (my favorite superman villain BTW)? Wow . . . wow. This is about as freak as seeing Gremlins for the first time. I love how Smallville casted Annette O'Toole as Martha Kent so the fanboys can scream:

"ZOMG! She was Lana Lang in Superman III" Plus, she's a MILF!

Posted: Dec 19 2007 01:25 am

ReeperTheSeeker wrote:

So wait, nuclear man was suppose to be Bizarro, Webster's Sister was suppose to be Metallo and Gus . . . Gus! was suppose to be Brainiac (my favorite superman villain BTW)? Wow . . . wow. This is about as freak as seeing Gremlins for the first time.

Well, Nuclear Man I was just "inspired" by Bizarro. He was never meant to be Bizarro. But, yes, Superman III was supposed to be a little closer to the comics. Of course, anyone who knows Superman knows those interpretations are dead wrong, but whatever, it would've been Brainiac on the big screen. Cool

Of course... there's always Spikeiac.
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