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Donkey Kong 64 VS Super Mario Galaxy


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Vert1
Joined: Aug 28 2011
PostPosted: Jul 20 2013 08:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

HeeHee. Will expound on later.

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i'll_bite_your_ear
Title: Distillatoria
Joined: Jun 09 2010
Location: van down by the river
PostPosted: Jul 20 2013 09:07 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Uhm... who cares?


it was the best of times
it was the blurst of times
 
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LordHuffnPuff
Title: Mahna Mahna
Joined: Jan 12 2009
Location: Fairyland
PostPosted: Jul 20 2013 10:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

One of those games is a Donkey Kong game that isn't called "Donkey Kong" and thus is awful. One of them is excellent.


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Vert1
Joined: Aug 28 2011
PostPosted: Sep 05 2013 06:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

CHARACTER CONTROL ~Core foundation: momentum based run and jump~
Galaxy wins

Both games have groggy character control when in their 2D games they felt alive. No more enemies as 'steps' to bop off of in a chain. Slowed down acceleration speed-- a detriment to the core foundation -- and thus having the effect of the increase of collection tasks or tightening levels. In Mario 64 momentum greatness was achieved by quickly diving or long jumping (quick bursts) repeatedly-- now this has fallen victim to deceleration. Quick agile ninja grace of yesteryear is gone. We now have characters with a stocky physicality to hunker around with. In 64 and Sunshine, run freely to your heart's delight to collect what was available. Forget it now. You've got a pointer to drag around as using Mario's own body to touch and absorb starbits would be a real drag.

Galaxy sins by allowing re-positionment of foot placement for landings with the spin attack -- erasing careful precision that was once known as foot landing; it also is a momentum killer. DK64's big sin is having slow to come out special abilities that otherwise would have allowed for fast space devouring. Now Galaxy's special abilities (the suits) are slow & petty as well; the exception is the Ice Mario suit (Fuck the timer shit though). DK64 had a supreme space devouring ability of Diddy Kong's jetpack (unlike no momentum gaining flying mario suit in Galaxy) that makes the user feel alive flying through dead airspace, but it is antithetical to platforming (flight control =/= platforming).

Jumping is stale now that one cannot tear across the screen in a running jump of 2D glory or an air dive of the 3D platformer founder. I do like the input timing and jump height of Diddy Kong's second jump (perhaps inspiration behind giving Mario a spin jump ->3rd jump ability in Sunshine). Having a wall jump + wall slide gives Galaxy a decisive edge in environment interaction. Swinging around on a vine is cooler in Galaxy as well as it allows you to swing to your liking (i.e. in a circle).

Only interesting difference left is that DK and crew can shimmy on the ledge, while Mario cannot but can sliphop over it (taken from DK: Jungle Beat). (I like shimmying but it has been underutilized.) Shimmying on the ledge wouldn't suit Galaxy's style as it is very linear.

CAMERA
DK64 wins

A real embarrassing loss for Galaxy here. Galaxy has a lot of the 'thud noises' occurring on levels (even the damn hub) even though there is no wall structure to obstruct the camera. Every small pool of water kills camera control in Galaxy leading to awkward xyz axis issues of swimming inward (towards camera) + occasional hangups of non-camera movement access when moving in on level (i.e. ice suit stage w/ cataquacks and the Space Junk Galaxy purple coins stage) which forces you to move back (backtrack) to get better view. Having an inconsistent camera is bad.

DK64 always lets you align the camera to see what you need to (an ideal display of visual information). Galaxy game is about rotating around everything except Mario. Galaxy camera feels slightly disconnected from Mario at times; i.e., a little loose, off-centered and isometric. All these things makes the 3D world feel 2D at times and that is not appreciated. Galaxy does not allow you to zoom in/out and has a snappy user controlled camera movement (read: not smooth) when turning to sides which I find unnatural. DK64 allows smooth re-center camera input command (R-button) that allows the user to follow DK around bends without killing momentum (you come to a halt when you c-button in Galaxy).


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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Sep 06 2013 06:32 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Donkey Kong 64 is garbage, Mario Galaxy is one of the critically acclaimed games of all-time. Story over.
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Vert1
Joined: Aug 28 2011
PostPosted: Sep 06 2013 07:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

COURAGE (combat & level design + difficulty/adversity)
Galaxy wins

Levels gingerly sprinkled with starbits or dumb bananas -- lightly sprinkled with enemies, bottomless pits (none in DK64), and obstacles. DK64 has no bottomless pits! Sand is less deadly than SM64 quicksand. So what should have been bottomless pits are filled up with sand, water, or just plain old land. Annoyance of backtracking or falling off and having to redo a jump instead of honorably dying (sidenote: Prince of Persia at least had limited 'retries' with the time rewind from failed crossings). Galaxy fairs far better in having real chasms, but falls victim to a ton of Super Mario Bros level 1 stage design with lots of surface sphere running (but even worse here since going into pipes stalls your progress by not advancing you in the level upon emergence). Only very rarely does Galaxy ever exhibit challenge and it will take you 60+ stars to get there (see: daredevil challenges and if I am generous purple coin timed stages). Extremely easy to overcome once you figure out what to do.

Enemies respawn in Dk64 making fighting enemies less important; just clear them out if they are interfering (you can just run past them though you should kill big Kremlings for blueprints) -- would have been cool if reinforcements spawned at access points and flooded your area. Again fighting enemies was never the focus of these games -- getting past them to continue in the level was. So forget about 3 hit health which was nullified regardless thanks to a 6-hit health powerup. Boss fights of course require action to 'unfreeze' screen to keep scrolling. Most here require pure aggression with simple dodging. None utilize jump and run mechanics -- more like Bowser destroying your platforms, Nintendo. Nearly all centered around boring bash attack or boring tnt barrel rolling toss. Would have been nice if Toy Factory boss in DK64 had bottomless pits of death; If the games actually adhered to the fight for landing space (basic tenet). Kamek fight is awesome as Nintendo finally figured that jumping over fire balls and battling for landing on safe floor space would adhere to greatness. What's with being able to exit a boss fight at anytime in these games though? If bosses actually had good design stages (bottomless pits=ohko's) you wouldn't be able to exit out and accept your fall punishment (none of these games allow exiting out of stage option when suspended in air).

DK64 had interesting enemy synthesis (wasp dropping grenades from above and moles rushing you on ground) + light/heavy enemy weight properties (Bone Klaptrap vs Krusha Kremling), while Mario's enemies all feel the exact same when hit -- how boring. The only interesting moment in Galaxy was when you cannoned out to a small planet in that level with the Toads where you were surrounded by enemies. Landing there was some crazy shit of having to fight through a mass of enemies and I barely got out of there without dying. It was clear that Nintendo had little desire to produce an awesome moment like that as a powerup for Star Mario is made available which makes everything easy-peesy.

CHARM
DK64 wins
Galaxy has very little charm. Game lacks any feeling of magic from prior Mario games as it starts off terribly (Mario screaming 'SUPER MARIO GALAXY!!!' at game bootup screen). Then you start off your adventure collecting 3 fucking rabbits which feels like a chore and dogshit compared to SM64 (you can't b-button grab or dive) -- the whole game feels like this as you repeatedly collect 5 star pieces. It's a 3D rotator simulator most of the time instead of a 3D platformer.

Galaxy - Really dug that music cues (taken from DK: Jungle Beat) and uptempo music during climatic action in boss battles. Annoyed that the best track is easily skipped over at the part where it gets smile inducing good if you long jump through level quickly. And what's with the story that feels like some ewwy JRPG (lullaby story book opener, you are mysteriously saved from danger, mystery floating girl, disable a mysterious apparatus to get first star, and ending felt like it was trying to get all mystical)? DK64 has none of that crap, but that damn caged big Barney dinosaur is irritating as fuck. Nintendo needs to keep the story bits short and clever like in Mario & Luigi: Super Star Saga.

DK64 starts off by blatantly ripping off Zelda: Ocarina of Time with the waking up of DK in his treehouse. When you boot up the game you are introduced to the ever-charming DK Rap (no fucking emo bullshit). When you fly (ala jetpac) through the air you've got that awesome music playing plus dual wielding pistols -- no horrid xyz axis problems like the first stage you get the Flying Mario suit. All the character interactions in DK64 are great: Cranky Kong and his witty dialogue, Funky Kong and his gun shooting mannerism, the fat pigs on the scale scarfing down bananas. The "oh banana!" vocal when you pick up a prized banana sounds great and so does that sparkly sfx which plays until you pick up the prized banana after you defeat a boss.

Galaxy -The vfx noise the bees make is quite charming. And I like the initial flying intro entrance for stages, but watching that for moving between planets in a level is not appreciated; i.e., boring (pointing at starbits waiting for this cutscene to end is not entertaining). What really kills Galaxy is the terrible sfx of Mario screaming "WHEE!" WHEE!" "WOOHOO!" "WHEE!" "WHEE!" every time I long jump. God they fucked that up real bad. Makes me sick.


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HardcoreGamer4Ever
Title: I Am The God Of Awesome
Joined: Jun 28 2010
Location: Your Mom's Vagina!
PostPosted: Sep 07 2013 01:21 am Reply with quote Back to top

I love DK64. I know everyone likes to call it bad for being a massive collectathon, but all 3D Platformers are collectathons, including Super Mario Galaxy. Not only that, but DK64 has a lot going for it. From a technical standpoint, DK64 is stunning. It has incredible graphics for being an N64 game. The worlds are HUGE. And the sheer amount of gameplay variety is jaw dropping, even for today's standards. Playing as 5 different characters was already cool, but the amount of things each one can do is impressive. This is a game that truly pushed the N64 to its limits. Not only that, but the game is also very fun. The levels are very well designed. Like I said earlier, the gameplay variety is amazing. There are tons of mini games that can distract you from the main quest due to the sheer enjoyment you'll have playing them. You can play both Donkey Kong and Jetpac if you want, though I will admit it's bullshit that you HAVE to play them to beat the game. It has fun cutscenes. The boss battles are super fun and inventive. It has a decent multiplayer mode. And in the bonus stuff, you can rewatch cutscenes and replay boss battles, which I think is cool. Also, I may be in the vast minority, but I love collecting things in this game. Also, I love the music in this game. Even the so horrible it's good DK Rap. All in all, this is a fantastic game and should be played by everyone.


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JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
PostPosted: Sep 07 2013 05:26 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Fucking courage. What does that even mean?


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Vert1
Joined: Aug 28 2011
PostPosted: Sep 07 2013 05:58 pm Reply with quote Back to top

On Courage

It is one of the 4 C's (Character Control, Camera, Courage, and Charm). It means difficulty or challenge. Courage (assessing timing, space, your opponent, and how you are going to initiate your movements).


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JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
PostPosted: Sep 07 2013 06:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Fucking courage. What does that even mean?


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LeshLush
Joined: Oct 19 2009
Location: Nashville, TN
PostPosted: Sep 07 2013 11:39 pm Reply with quote Back to top

JoshWoodzy wrote:
Fucking courage. What does that even mean?

It means you're a fucking pussy.
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Fighter_McWarrior
Title: Gun of Brixton
Joined: Jun 05 2011
Location: Down by the River
PostPosted: Sep 07 2013 11:41 pm Reply with quote Back to top

JoshWoodzy wrote:
Fucking courage. What does that even mean?




"Spanish bombs, yot' quierro y finito
Yo te querda oh ma corazón
Oh ma corazón, oh ma corazón" - The Clash, Spanish Bombs
 
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Sep 08 2013 11:41 am Reply with quote Back to top

Vert1 wrote:
On Courage

It is one of the 4 C's (Character Control, Camera, Courage, and Charm). It means difficulty or challenge. Courage (assessing timing, space, your opponent, and how you are going to initiate your movements).

So, why wouldn't you just say Challenge instead? It's more direct and since you've got Charm on the list, it doesn't ruin any sort of alliteration. Also, shorten Character Control to just Control. Same meaning, and more concise.
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