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Cover shooters


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Vert1
Joined: Aug 28 2011
PostPosted: Apr 01 2012 12:03 am Reply with quote Back to top

I am making this thread to compile a list of all the cover shooter games. My ultimate goal is to compare them -- I feel they are inferior -- against non-cover shooter games. Please help me add games where cover mechanics contribute to the core of the game's action.

The list so far:

Confirmed: Rolling Thunder, Rolling Thunder 2, Rolling Thunder 3, CodeName: Viper, Space Invaders

Non-confirmed (suggestions): Crime City,Shadow Dancer, Surprise Attack, Out Of This World, Cabal, Target Earth, King Arthur's Gold (play as archer), Blood Bros., Blackthorne

3D games:

Confirmed: PN03, Gears of War, Vanquish, Dark Sector, Kill.Switch, Time Crisis, The Getaway, Uncharted, Space Raiders, Bullet Witch


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Cameron
Title: :O � O:
Joined: Feb 01 2008
Location: St. Louis, MO
PostPosted: Apr 01 2012 12:12 am Reply with quote Back to top

So it can be any game that has the option to take cover? If that's the case, I'd add Resident Evil 5, the Time Crisis games, and Aliens: Infestation.


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Vert1
Joined: Aug 28 2011
PostPosted: Apr 01 2012 12:15 am Reply with quote Back to top

No. Games where cover is used or is available to use a lot. Games where you would say cover is one of its primary features. So no to RE5. Gotta look at Aliens: Infestation.


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Thunderhorse
Title: This is DELICIOUS!
Joined: Dec 29 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
PostPosted: Apr 01 2012 12:25 am Reply with quote Back to top

Dark Sector. Think Gears, but instead of a Chainsaw-gun, you get a giant glaive. It can get just as gruesome as the chainsaw, though...


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Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Apr 01 2012 03:03 am Reply with quote Back to top

Kill.Switch arguably invented the mechanics that most cover-based shooters currently employ.


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Arlock41
Title: Naunie
Joined: Dec 07 2008
PostPosted: Apr 01 2012 03:04 am Reply with quote Back to top

The Getaway.
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Alowishus
Joined: Aug 04 2009
PostPosted: Apr 01 2012 07:30 am Reply with quote Back to top

I like this thread.

You could probably just lump every fps that has regen health in here.

COD4MW, COD5WAW, COD6MW2, COD7BO, COD8MW3 and no doubt COD9BO2. Uncharted series has it.

I've heard Mass Effect series has it, but i cannot confirm.
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MellowMeek
Joined: Feb 16 2010
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Apr 01 2012 03:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Chest high wall hallways sure are my favorite.


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Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Apr 01 2012 11:58 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Alow, by that logic, any shooter ever falls under the category.

I'm open to the idea of cover-based shooters being good. The Uncharted series did it well, in that they gave you a lot of PoP-style movement so that you could mix the acrobatics with the environments to find safety in different ways, but would then counteract that with smart enemies that could exploit weaknesses in your cover. The part in Tibet where you're stuck on that giant signpoast, hopping between all of the signs on it for cover is one of my favorite video game moments. Gears of War 1 did it well, too, because it made the cover system an integral part of the gameplay. Most other games I've played, though, just throw it in there just for the sake of having it.

As far as 2D games go, you could throw Blackthorne in there as well.


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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 06:28 am Reply with quote Back to top

Time Crisis, I think. Didn't it have a pedal you pressed to make your guy take cover?
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Alowishus
Joined: Aug 04 2009
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 07:50 am Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
Time Crisis, I think. Didn't it have a pedal you pressed to make your guy take cover?

Yeah it did.

The whole series did.

Greg the White wrote:
Alow, by that logic, any shooter ever falls under the category.


Shooters that don't: Doom 1, Doom 2, Quake 1-4, UT series, Early Medal of Honour series.

If the game did not have regen health it didn't really need to use cover (there will be some exclusions to this rule where damage necessitates taking cover but still has a health kit or other health system). There may be very small amounts but it's not a part of the gameplay.

With the games first mentioned you basically just stand behind a wall and "magically heal". Hence it is a cover based shooter. There are lots of fps where you don't have to hide behind a chest high wall.

Before chest high walls there was the circle strafe.
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justdrop
Title: Supreme Overlord
Joined: Jan 11 2012
Location: Philadelphia
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 07:58 am Reply with quote Back to top

So wait, Space Invaders was inferior to other same-gen shooters because it had cover? LOL


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Syd Lexia
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Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 11:46 am Reply with quote Back to top

I would think health regen means that a game ISN'T cover based, because you can be more frivolous with your health.
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justdrop
Title: Supreme Overlord
Joined: Jan 11 2012
Location: Philadelphia
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 11:52 am Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
I would think health regen means that a game ISN'T cover based, because you can be more frivolous with your health.

I would agree but there are exceptions like Gears of War where even with regen, you still need to take cover or else you'll get gibbed on higher difficulties.


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Andrew Man
Title: Is a Funklord
Joined: Jan 30 2007
Location: Annandale, VA
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 02:33 pm Reply with quote Back to top

justdrop wrote:
Syd Lexia wrote:
I would think health regen means that a game ISN'T cover based, because you can be more frivolous with your health.

I would agree but there are exceptions like Gears of War where even with regen, you still need to take cover or else you'll get gibbed on higher difficulties.


Yea, same with Mass Effect pretty much.


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Vert1
Joined: Aug 28 2011
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 02:39 pm Reply with quote Back to top

justdrop wrote:
So wait, Space Invaders was inferior to other same-gen shooters because it had cover? LOL


That's what my theory is aiming to prove. It's not saying that Space Invaders is a bad game. Would Space Invaders be improved w/out cover? Would that be a more rewarding experience? Were coverless shooter games like SpaceWar! before Space Invaders better? Grazing bullets versus hiding behind a shield stuff. That's what I'm going to get at.

To give you more on why I have this theory is that all the cover games I play become much more entertaining sans cover. For the 2D games: Rolling Thunder 2, the bosses are out in the open, no cover shenanigans. In PN03. the final boss is out in the open and it blows away everything experienced in the entire game. RE4 vs Gears. RE4 style wins. In Vanquish, Mikami has stated that 'cover is boring, and that I want to keep the player moving', so that you can't be all campy -- it is about using cover sparingly.

Is cover better than no cover at all (minimal cover)? Should cover be done away with? My theory is that cover should just be done away with.


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Andrew Man
Title: Is a Funklord
Joined: Jan 30 2007
Location: Annandale, VA
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 02:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I enjoy cover shooters. And in Space Invaders, it's not like you can hide in cover forever. Those walls deteriorate.


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The Opponent
Title: Forum Battle WINNER
Joined: Feb 24 2010
Location: The Danger Zone
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 02:57 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Do the later Metal Gear Solid games count?

Vert1 wrote:
It's not saying that Space Invaders is a bad game. Would Space Invaders be improved w/out cover? Would that be a more rewarding experience?

You clearly have never played Space Invaders Extreme.


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Preng
Title: All right, that's cool!
Joined: Jan 11 2010
Location: Accounting Dept.
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 03:14 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Vert1 wrote:
To give you more on why I have this theory is that all the cover games I play become much more entertaining sans cover. For the 2D games: Rolling Thunder 2, the bosses are out in the open, no cover shenanigans. In PN03. the final boss is out in the open and it blows away everything experienced in the entire game. RE4 vs Gears. RE4 style wins. In Vanquish, Mikami has stated that 'cover is boring, and that I want to keep the player moving', so that you can't be all campy -- it is about using cover sparingly.

I'll generally comment from Gears of War 1-3 experience cover, while useful, certainly can slow the game down on a situational basis. If the map is deadlocked and everyone's waiting for the other team to make a punishable error, then sometimes the abundance of chest-high walls is indeed limiting.

However, the concept of wallbouncing - a technique which takes advantage of sliding or cancel-sliding into cover while aiming the camera in mid-animation - is something I've found to be an extremely entertaining and useful ability which has become its own sub-game for seasoned players.

Jump to 3:20 to see a few minor clips of it in action.


I need to play Resident Evil 4 sometime, and Gears of War obviously isn't a perfect game, but cover provides some interesting gameplay despite the admitted flow problems.
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Andrew Man
Title: Is a Funklord
Joined: Jan 30 2007
Location: Annandale, VA
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 03:34 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I don't know about you guys, but if I were in a real live shootout, I would be looking for cover.

Yes, I know these are video games, but because of the aforementioned point, I tend to find shooting from cover satisfying.


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justdrop
Title: Supreme Overlord
Joined: Jan 11 2012
Location: Philadelphia
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 03:56 pm Reply with quote Back to top

It's all in your playstyle, honestly. In Gears of War I go commando but I opt for accurate weapons. I rarely use cover other than to bounce and use the torque/sniper or boltok/shield combos depending on my partner. Does cover draw out matches? Sometimes, yeah. If you're accurate you never have to wait for people to finish, you'll be hunting people down and ending it quick.


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Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 04:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'll agree that I love me some RE4 long time Vert, but I disagree in a friendly way. To say we should just get rid of a mechanic is kind of close-minded (not insulting you personally, I see the sentiment a lot in regards to anything in gaming), in that you just don't want to see why it can possibly be good. I dislike racing sims, but I don't think we should get rid of realistic driving physics in all games just because of my opinion or tastes. Hell, if done well, I think I may enjoy a racing sim or two one day, but that hasn't happened yet.

I'm definitely not saying cover-based shooting hasn't been misused. Inserting a feature that makes you effectively invincible as a core feature can lead to bad times. Knowing you're invincible, coupled with the fact that you're limited to popping off of other cover-bound enemies who won't move an inch one at a time does not make for engaging gameplay. Not to mention how it has limited art direction, in that you can tell when you'll be attacked and from where, when you see a few rows of identical, neatly arranged waist-high walls. Mass Effect did that pretty badly, especially in outdoor areas.

But it can be done well. In Uncharted 2, you're given a Prince of Persia-style set of moves for both platforming and combat. You can jump around, hang off of objects and ledges for cover while firing, and climb around to get different vantage points. The enemies are programmed to do these types of things as well, so it's a mixture of playing against the course and your opponents. It's also used for stealth mechanics, where you can wait in cover for an enemy to come by and silently take him out to thin out their ranks before engaging in a firefight. These are all great things that the game did with a cover system, and I feel it would have been worse without one. Here's a video showing off what I'm saying (I'm sorry if you dislike commentary and in-jokes, their commentary-less version isn't working for some reason):



(Also see: Just Cause 2 for a similar yet different approach)

Another example is Brothers in Arms 3: Hell's Highway. The previous two games didn't have cover systems, but I think they put it in this one because it was frustrating in the first two when you thought you were in safe protection, but a random lucky rifle bullet would hit your pinky-toe that was out in the open and take off like a third of your health (no health kits or regen health in the other games). So in Hell's Higway, they put in a cover system, but didn't half-ass it. It plays well into the suppression mechanic where you have to control teams of soldiers to fire at enemies to keep their heads down while out-maneuvering them to get a better angle on their position (Think of it as a more streamlined Full Spectrum Warrior, if you played those). You have to pop in and out of cover to keep enemies from becoming more agressive and pinning/killing you and your squad. There's also a risk/reward system, in that a lot of the cover is destructible, whether through heavy gunfire, explosives, or both, allowing you and your enemies to exploit weaknesses. Again, using the mechanic in different ways to make the game more challenging and fun.

Hell, in Gears' case, they throw in giant monsters that can dig, fly, move quickly, or blow everything the hell up, so that you constantly have to be moving or reacting, but not forcing you stand in the open in danger until you can duck behind a corner. It's balanced pretty well (though I will admit the normal/easy modes aren't great for this. I usually stick to the second-highest setting).

I'll say it's been misused all day, but at the end of the day, it's just a mechanic that was probably inserted by pressure from publishers/marketers in the wake of Gears of War, or by teams that used it as a crutch for gameplay limitations, or just without thinking of how to make it an integral part of a fun experience. I think it can be and has been used well, but it was in one of those overused fads like bullet time, or those "hard" games that seriously tried to copy I Wanna be the Guy without realizing it was kind of a joke.


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Alowishus
Joined: Aug 04 2009
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 04:32 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Greg the White wrote:
I'll agree that I love me some RE4 long time Vert, but I disagree in a friendly way. To say we should just get rid of a mechanic is kind of close-minded (not insulting you personally, I see the sentiment a lot in regards to anything in gaming), in that you just don't want to see why it can possibly be good. I dislike racing sims, but I don't think we should get rid of realistic driving physics in all games just because of my opinion or tastes. Hell, if done well, I think I may enjoy a racing sim or two one day, but that hasn't happened yet.

This is where the whole problem lies.

Games as of recent years have became more grounded in reality. Whereas (read) most games in the past were more unrealistic.

I'll describe FPS since it's probably my favorite gaming genre. We all know that FPS back in the day were highly unrealistic, medikits, could avoid enemy gun fire by just side stepping. To me that's what made the games fun.

It's the whole fantastical nature of the games. That you suspend reality.

However now games like CoD are going for the "we will make games like real life" sort of approach. Not that regen is realistic at all but the idea of two shots and you are dead, limited running time, no strafing etc. Although these did occur in the past they are basically the standard for FPS games now.

The only FPS i can think of now which are against this trend are Serious Sam 3 and Team Fortress 2.

It's like games have became super serious business. Oh we can't have this mechanic it is too far fetched.

Personally i just favor the more farfetched aspects. With games anything is possible, what is the point of just making games like real life? I know you can't shoot people in real life but i hope you understand what i mean. It's familiar and explored territory, you know what to expect.

There are some games where reality is good.

CTR is my favorite racing game of all time but i can still enjoy Gran Turismo. It's a strange situation and it's not that the games are bad because they are realistic. Just one can find them a bit tedious. Like in terms of FPS i grew up with fast paced action shooters.

Now it's, oh i stand behind this wall and periodically check until i can shoot then i shoot and then he's dead, repeat infinitum. It's okay in small bouts but when every god damn game does this it becomes boring as hell.

Inspiration is gone.
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Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 05:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Funny how inspiration is dead, when if this was 10+ years ago, we'd have almost nothing but side-scrollers and mascot platformers. This stuff goes in waves. We get plenty of fun, over-the-top games these days. I honestly blame people being more of a problem if you can't/won't look for them, then blabbing about how they're not there when they really are. It strikes me as really rude to the developers who put in the time to make this sort of thing.

For shooters, we just had Bulletstorm, a game where you throw mutants around with a laser whip while wrapping them in chain-mines, so you can use them as a way of blowing up their buddies, meanwhile getting points for pulling off fancy kill tricks, like an insane Tony Hawk. Then there's Hard Reset from some of the old Painkiller guys, where you mow down hordes of murderous robots. Then Crysis 1/2, a game about a super-soldier who can turn invisible, jump 20 feet in the air, and shoot down squid-like alien gunships with a laser chaingun. Then there are other semi-recent games like the Left 4 Dead series, Borderlands, the Bioshock games (and upcoming Infinite), and a new Brothers in Arms, which is going away from my favorite series by making it into into a Nazi-chainsawing Grindhouse-wannabe, but it still proves my point. I'll admit the art was dormant while we finagled with new-gen tech, but it's far from dead.

For other genres, we get Back Breaker, Blitz, fun little Wii/Kinect/Moves games for sports. Then there's Prototype, Infamous, No More Heroes, Saint's Row, and Just Cause 2 for open-ended action games. Point and click adventures are back with Machinarium, Whispered World, and Double Fine's Kickstarter project. Rayman: Origins and Super Meat Boy are there for platformers. Fuck, Legend of Grimrock is the first major Dungeon Crawl I can remember since what, Arx Fatalis? These are all great, fun, unrealistic games that are easily distinguishable from one another. With new tech and purchasing systems, we can and have been doing a lot of cool things. I love me my favorite old games of my youth, but with Steam, console marketplaces, and the new Kickstarter movement, gaming is only going to get better.


So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind.
 
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JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
PostPosted: Apr 03 2012 06:00 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Greg the White wrote:
Funny how inspiration is dead, when if this was 10+ years ago, we'd have almost nothing but side-scrollers and mascot platformers. This stuff goes in waves. We get plenty of fun, over-the-top games these days. I honestly blame people being more of a problem if you can't/won't look for them, then blabbing about how they're not there when they really are. It strikes me as really rude to the developers who put in the time to make this sort of thing.

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