I know I'm a huge minority here, but maybe it was the glitz of full motion video at the time or god knows what what, but I LOOOVES me some Night Trap. And unlike other remember/re-try type games I've played, I can EASILY forget what to do at what times by just not playing for 6 months or so. So every so often it's a new trip. Plus my son likes the game, he gets really into me chasing around the augs and makin sure the girls don't get killed... a very underrated game in my opinion... but hey, we've learned so far what MY opinion is worth
Vert1
Joined: Aug 28 2011
Posts: 537
Posted:
Oct 20 2011 01:05 pm
There's nothing wrong with talking about the game mechanics, brian. I did so in my explanations of games; i.e. F-Zero X where you control a craft at high speeds that races in the sky and where the music intensity affects your playing. Here is something to read:
icycalm wrote:
So basically, the narrowly-defined mechanics are the relations between the game's various states -- between different points in its possiblity space (e.g. 100 rings in Sonic give you a 1UP).
The narrowly-defined aesthetics, on the other hand, are anything in its code which, if we change it, we do not affect its possibility space (e.g. colors, sound-samples, etc.)
These two concepts suffice for day-to-day critical analysis of videogames.
However, for a full, profound understanding of what actually happens, WHAT HAPPENS TO US, while we play videogames, they do not suffice, and this is where the higher concepts of mechanics and aesthetics come in.
The higher mechanics are emotional mechanics (what Kael calls "mechanics" in her essay about movies) -- how the interaction with the game machine affects us psychologically. It is in this sense that previously purely aesthetic aspects such as color become mechanical ones.
The higher aesthetics, on the other hand, are the aesthetics of mechanics -- i.e. why we find a particular mechanic (a narrowly-defined mechanic) more enjoyable than another, e.g. why some people prefer danmaku shooters like Mushihime-sama, while others prefer memorizers like R-Type (another example is the one given here by Seth Killian. What he calls "aesthetics" in that passage is in fact higher aesthetics -- though he doesn't fully understand what he is saying, which is why he doesn't clarify this.) It is in this sense that previously purely mechanical aspects become aesthetic ones.
It is these two concepts, then, the higher mechanics and the higher aesthetics, that blend with each other, and are strictly speaking inseparable. The lower concepts, on the other hand, can be perfectly separated via a consideration of the simple definitions of them I gave above.
I've tried replying to this thread a few times, but I keep getting off on tangents about the gameplay... I guess graphics just aren't that important to me. (big surprise there if you ever seen my videogame room).
I know you didn't say it exactly, but I am getting a little tired of "Well, I'm smart so I know graphics don't matter at all." Do people who say this think they're part of some minority anymore? I don't think anyone in this topic would disagree with the sentiment. Of course most people with a brain in their skull don't buy a game based on graphics. The ones who do are easily spotted, chastised, and exiled from those who can put the right blocks into the right holes. Discussing graphics/visual design should be a discussion that goes on so developers who are listening to consumers realize what works and what doesn't.
Many people have rightly discussed Castlevania in this topic (one I would include on my list as well). Would it have been better or worse without its engine? Imagine if it was all just blank, stone walls and dull enemy design. Its graphics and art direction made it stand out. It was creepy and highly atmospheric for the time. Just a small example, but a game does have the potential to be better based on its visuals.
Again, I realized you weren't saying exactly what I'm talking about, and I'm not jabbing at you at all. It's just something I've wanted to get off my chest for a while, and you and the topic at least gave me a chance, so if anything I owe a thank you.
So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind.
Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3112
Posted:
Oct 20 2011 01:13 pm
Accidental double post. Deleted to save space. Move along.
So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind.
Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
Posted:
Oct 20 2011 01:19 pm
I think, for the most part, people who talk about graphics in regards to modern games are nothing but pathetic bean counters. I think it's a reasonable thing to say, and I think most people would agree.
But graphics did matter at one point, up to and including the 64-bit era.
There are some NES and SNES games that are completely fucking hideous. Lazy sprite design and poor palette choices have made for some truly eye-bleedingly ugly games.
I wasn't trying to bash anyone for appreciateding good graphics, but I myself, being someone who grew up playing a system that was always a generation behind just find that gameplay wins out overall, and videogaming is at it's BEST when both GRAPHICS and GAMEPLAY compliment each other, like in SMB1 for the NES, a lot of what you seen wasn't just graphical prettiness but envriomewnt that you could interact with, and not just in the 'pick up anything' style play we see today, but in the sense that if you see a something that looks like you can make use of, you probably can to benefit yourself, not just to say, hey I picked up a garbage can and threw it, I picked up a gqrbage can and THIS time there was a tunnel beneath it!, a good correlation between graphics and gameplay. Unlike say Pitfall! on the 2600... you fall into a big gaping black hole in the ground, but do you fall down to the next level/platform? no,.. you just stay on the same level/platform and try again, nice graphics, but insensible gameplay mechanics.
Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
Posted:
Oct 20 2011 01:28 pm
Captain Skyhawk sticks out in my mind as a game that I never bothered to play because it didn't interest me at all graphically. I'd see it at the rental store look at the screenshots on the back, yawn, and pass.
But graphics did matter at one point, up to and including the 64-bit era.
Graphics still matter.
Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3112
Posted:
Oct 20 2011 01:29 pm
Syd Lexia wrote:
There are some NES and SNES games that are completely fucking hideous. Lazy sprite design and poor palette choices have made for some truly eye-bleedingly ugly games.
That sort of plays into what I wanted to say. It's not the graphics that are important, it's how they're used. Capom's been pretty good with this over the years. Rather than lazily deliver games using their great engines as a crutch, they've used their engines to create great visuals that are part of the fun of the game, whether it was the great, detailed enemy designs of Mega Man, the smooth fighting and unique characters of Street Fighter, the unique historical design of Okami, or the cathartic explosion-fests of Dead Rising and Lost Planet. There are other companies who worked in the same time periods with similar/better engines who didn't use them to their fullest extent, which resulted in dull, uninspired games. What I mean is that superior graphical engines can make a difference, it's how they're used that make the most important differences.
So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind.
Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
Posted:
Oct 20 2011 01:30 pm
Style matters. Art direction matters. Use of lighting/contrast matters. Graphics do not. It doesn't matter if the sand dune the guy I'm trying to snipe is standing on is made up of 1,000,000 individually rendered grains of sand or if it's just a really nice looking matte.
Wrong. You cannot accomplish certain games on older hardware. The graphical capabilities are limited. Take Resident Evil 4 on Gamecube over PS2. Why would I want to play a graphically inferior game (ontop of the multiple other deficiencies)? And this extends to what is possible on Nintendo Wii versus Playstation 3. Visuals are very important.
Style matters. Art direction matters. Use of lighting/contrast matters. Graphics do not. It doesn't matter if the sand dune the guy I'm trying to snipe is standing on is made up of 1,000,000 individually rendered grains of sand or if it's just a really nice looking matte.
If you were Mario Mario (yes, according to the movie that's his name) then you sir would have just earned a 1-up
Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3112
Posted:
Oct 20 2011 01:45 pm
All of you think graphics don't matter, then look into the future:
So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind.
brian
Banned
Title: Shit Disturber
Joined: Oct 14 2011
Posts: 81
Posted:
Oct 20 2011 01:48 pm
Watching that video all I could think of was SpinDizzy Worlds on the SNES.
Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3112
Posted:
Oct 20 2011 01:50 pm
brian wrote:
Watching that video all I could think of was SpinDizzy Worlds on the SNES.
Reminds me more of those hideous bargain-bin Myst clones that had worse graphics engines.
So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind.
Slayer1
Title: ,,!,, for you know who
Joined: Sep 23 2008
Posts: 4274
Posted:
Oct 20 2011 01:53 pm
Greg the White wrote:
All of you think graphics don't matter, then look into the future:
I'm so PUMPED for CUBE!
@om*d
Title: Dorakyura
Joined: Jul 10 2010
Location: Castlevania
Posts: 4226
Posted:
Oct 20 2011 02:02 pm
I would totally buy Cube.
brian
Banned
Title: Shit Disturber
Joined: Oct 14 2011
Posts: 81
Posted:
Oct 20 2011 02:05 pm
Myst...
Watch a slideshow of nice pictures and click aimlessly hoping to get ahead.
Personally, I'd rather all these NON-gaming folks play Farmville and be happy, than play Myst and be up on their high horses like back in the day.
At least Farmville players aren't braggarts.
EDIT: My sonss mother bought him Myst for the DS... we still have NO idea what to fuckin do... doesn't help any that shes the type to throw away any casing/documentation that came with the game... but somehow I doubt it would really help us much...
Another game that popped into my head, that didn't have the best graphics, but had a great animated-like art style was Mark of Kri. That game was pretty cool. Looked like a super violent Disney movie.
Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
Posted:
Oct 20 2011 02:51 pm
The opening cutscene to Smash Bros. Melee was impressive to me at the time:
