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JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
Posts: 6544
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I know that sounds kind of confusing, so I'll break it down.
"A Florida driver ticketed for flashing his headlights to warn of a police speed trap is fighting back with a class-action lawsuit charging a violation of motorists' free speech rights, the St. Petersburg Times reports.
If the state loses, it could be forced to refund fines to 2,400 motorists cited for headlight-signaling from 2005 to 2010."
Full story here:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/09/fla-driver-fights-back-over-ticket-for-flashing-lights-to-warn-of-speed-trap/1
My two cents? Just don't do it, you have no reason to act like a hero and be the "I gotta tell these guys about a speed trap so Johnny Cocaine Snorter can stop going 95 before he hits the speed trap" kinda guy. It's not necessary. And violating your free speech? Gag me with a fucking spoon.
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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
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Josh, it doesn't matter if you think it is a good or bad idea. It doesn't matter how I feel about it either. What matters is that this is absolutely about one of two things. Freedom of speech or a driving infraction.
If you receive a fine for flashing your lights because it was dangerous, that is one thing. If you are told that you are fined for using your lights to communicate, that is another thing... total bullshit.
If you walk past a police officer and subsequently you see another person a few paces ahead, it wouldn't be illegal to mention that you just passed a police officer.
Lastly, there are many reasons a person uses their headlights to communicate and no court could ever prove the intentions of the person flashing them.
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Atma
Title: Dragoon
Joined: Apr 29 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 2450
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Meh, If you want to be Hero Boy. Knock yourself out.
But I do agree at the end of the day if you weren't doing 77 in a 45 construction zone, you probably wouldn't have a $400 ticket and even worried about it.
The cops are pissed that the trap was given up to what? 4 or 5 oncoming cars? Who gives a shit. Catch the next 30 speeders. It's not like every damn person is flashing their lights as they pass by.
Everyone needs to take the stick out of their ass in this situation.
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
Posts: 7565
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I'm not sure this is "free speech", but I think this is a BS law myself. A lot of states have made speed traps illegal as it is. I can't see any way to justify warning another person "Hey, there's a cop over there, stop breaking the law" being illegal.
In fact, isn't this why the cops are supposedly out there in the first place? To get people to slow down?
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JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
Posts: 6544
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I guess my first impression when I see someone clearly speeding is "I hope that fucker gets caught" not "Here, let me warn him so he can slow down, then speed back up when he's in the clear"
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
Posts: 7565
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joshwoodzy wrote: |
I guess my first impression when I see someone clearly speeding is "I hope that fucker gets caught" not "Here, let me warn him so he can slow down, then speed back up when he's in the clear" |
Mine too. I don't blink people. Fuck em.
But I think you should be allowed to if you want.
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Atma
Title: Dragoon
Joined: Apr 29 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 2450
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UsaSatsui wrote: |
In fact, isn't this why the cops are supposedly out there in the first place? To get people to slow down? |
More like collect fines for the city.
That's the only real reason why they're pissed.
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Beach Bum
Joined: Dec 08 2010
Location: At the pants party.
Posts: 1777
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Atma wrote: |
UsaSatsui wrote: |
In fact, isn't this why the cops are supposedly out there in the first place? To get people to slow down? |
More like collect fines for the city.
That's the only real reason why they're pissed. |
Pretty much this. They'd actually prefer if you speed because they don't make any money if you don't. Out here on I-55 every weekend and holiday sees at least a 6 hour speed trap between Springfield and the two biggest cities north and south of us. They don't care about speeding, they are looking for that $250 ticket, and they want to make sure to welcome visitors to the state properly.
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
Posts: 7565
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Atma wrote: |
More like collect fines for the city.
That's the only real reason why they're pissed. |
UsaSatsui wrote: |
In fact, isn't this why the cops are supposedly out there in the first place? To get people to slow down? |
And truth be told, this isn't true across the board. I know a cop or two who hate writing tickets and only do so for certain things (like seat belts, where he has to), if the guy was really being dangerous, or if the driver was being an asshole. They yank people over when they're speeding to get them to slow down.
Sometimes there's pressure to "raise revenue", and I have met one or two who will nail you for 62 in a 60. But I think a lot of cops would be happier if they never wrote any tickets.
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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
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SoldierHawk
Moderator
Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 6108
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So I'm not being a smartass here, but if someone is acting as a lookout during a bank robbery, aren't they held criminally liable too? I don't believe that falls under free speech, and it doesn't seem like this should either. Although the scale is much less smaller and the stakes are lower, the fact remains that their "communicating" in an attempt to help people get away with a crime. That doesn't seem okay to me.
Now, that doesn't solve the issue that something like headlight flashing is much harder to pin down a motivation for. But in general, I don't see an issue with making people knock this off.
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William Shakespeare wrote: |
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none. |
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Alowishus
Joined: Aug 04 2009
Posts: 2515
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GPFontaine wrote: |
If you receive a fine for flashing your lights because it was dangerous, that is one thing. If you are told that you are fined for using your lights to communicate, that is another thing... total bullshit.
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Either way it's an infraction. I can see the driver losing.
If you flash your headlines to alert that there is no danger you can get a ticket. Just like how if you drive along beeping your horn you can get fined.
Then on the otherhand you are not supposed to flash your headlines to communicate or to signal to let people out.
It's not a question of freedom of speech. Flashing your lights as communication is illegal as it dangers other drivers.
Either way the driver loses.
NOTE: This is in UK/Ireland driving. No clue on the US.
"United Kingdom
Though not all of its rules represent law, the Highway Code states "Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights in an attempt to intimidate other road users."
In that respect you can get ticketed. Though it seems on a quick google that it varies by state in the US. If it is illegal in the state though, trying to claim it as freedom of speech is total bullshit because it's totally irrelevant. You are not supposed to use headlines to communicate as it is dangerous. If i was a judge i would place drivers safety over this trivial matter which is literally just trying to find a loophole to escape prosecution.
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
Posts: 7565
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SoldierHawk wrote: |
So I'm not being a smartass here, but if someone is acting as a lookout during a bank robbery, aren't they held criminally liable too? I don't believe that falls under free speech, and it doesn't seem like this should either. Although the scale is much less smaller and the stakes are lower, the fact remains that their "communicating" in an attempt to help people get away with a crime. That doesn't seem okay to me.
Now, that doesn't solve the issue that something like headlight flashing is much harder to pin down a motivation for. But in general, I don't see an issue with making people knock this off. |
If you're acting as a lookout during a bank robbery, you're actively participating in a crime.
If you see someone running out of a bank with a gun and a bag of money, and you tell him, "hey, there's a cop that way", then you're aiding and abetting a crime.
If you see a guy walking down the street, and you tell him, "hey, there's a bunch of cops over there", and he goes another way, and he just happened to rob a bank, you didn't commit a crime.
Flashing someone to warn them of a speed trap is more like the third one. You're informing someone (who may or may not be speeding, you don't know) about the presence of a peace officer.
Also, traffic violations aren't "crimes" in anything more than the technical sense. They don't even go on your criminal record. They're generally considered infractions, very minor offenses that don't carry a high punishment and are usually dealt with without a trial.
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Teralyx
Title: Master Exploder
Joined: Jun 04 2008
Location: Goldenrod City
Posts: 1419
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Who the fuck sees a guy flashing his lights and immediately thinks "Oh, he's telling me there's a speed trap ahead."?
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 <TheFlamingSchnitzel> Didn't your mom teach you not to punch girls?
<FigNewton> I was too busy /punchin' her/ |
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BlazingGlory
Title: KANE LIVES IN DEATH!
Joined: Aug 10 2009
Posts: 562
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ToGdor wrote: |
Who the fuck sees a guy flashing his lights and immediately thinks "Oh, he's telling me there's a speed trap ahead."? |
They're usually either telling you that or that their's a road hazard ahead. Either way, most people will take this as a sign to slow down. Of course, the guy may just be a jackass and trying to get you to speed up if he's behind you, but it's pretty obvious what the meaning was here.
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JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
Posts: 6544
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ToGdor wrote: |
Who the fuck sees a guy flashing his lights and immediately thinks "Oh, he's telling me there's a speed trap ahead."? |
People who drive.
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Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3112
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joshwoodzy wrote: |
ToGdor wrote: |
Who the fuck sees a guy flashing his lights and immediately thinks "Oh, he's telling me there's a speed trap ahead."? |
People who drive. |
I flash my high-beams when someone else has theirs on full blast for no reason, so they're not blinding drivers, especially if they're right behind me. Otherwise, we were taught in our school's driving class that you can do it to signal danger to on-coming drivers that they are approaching road obstructions or some other such thing. I'd never heard of people doing it to point out speed-traps, and would never have thought about it I saw someone else do it, or I did it myself.
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 So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind. |
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16127
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Greg the White wrote: |
joshwoodzy wrote: |
ToGdor wrote: |
Who the fuck sees a guy flashing his lights and immediately thinks "Oh, he's telling me there's a speed trap ahead."? |
People who drive. |
I flash my high-beams when someone else has theirs on full blast for no reason, so they're not blinding drivers, especially if they're right behind me. Otherwise, we were taught in our school's driving class that you can do it to signal danger to on-coming drivers that they are approaching road obstructions or some other such thing. I'd never heard of people doing it to point out speed-traps, and would never have thought about it I saw someone else do it, or I did it myself. |
its quite common. especially on open highways. i think its BS he got fined for warning people. granted, if you are going 30 over the limit, then get caught. if you are going 10 over, then a warning would be nice (i usually try to stay 5 over, but sometimes i do go 10 over if im in a hurry).
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Klimbatize wrote: |
I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load |
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Douche McCallister
Moderator
Title: DOO-SHAY
Joined: Jan 26 2007
Location: Private Areas
Posts: 5672
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I hate when someone blows by me doing 90 in a 55 or 65. I usually mutter to myself "I hope there is a cop hidden up a head", but if I pass a cop hidden on the highway on the other side I always flash my highbeams. I also do that for cars that are driving without their lights on.
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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
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There are many reasons to flash one's lights.
* Warning oncoming drivers about speed traps and or other road conditions. In general it is a signal to slow down or face the consequences.
* Tell the oncoming driver that their high beams are on and in your face.
* Tell the oncoming driver that their lights are off and it is dark.
* Tell the driver infront that they are going to slow for the lane of traffic they are in
* Telling an oncoming driver to go ahead at an intersection
It doesn't surprise me that younger drivers wouldn't know the meanings of lights flashing. Learn and you may get out of a ticket some day.
Also, this isn't about people going 30 mph over the speedlimit. The average speed limit is low compared to the safe travel speed of a road. On average most roads I travel on have people going 5-10mph over that limit as the average speed. I am convinced they don't raise the speed limit because they assume it will encourage people to drive another 5-10 mph over that speed.
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Blackout
Title: Captain Oblivious
Joined: Sep 01 2007
Location: That Rainy State
Posts: 10376
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ToGdor wrote: |
Who the fuck sees a guy flashing his lights and immediately thinks "Oh, he's telling me there's a speed trap ahead."? |
Anyone that paranoid shouldn't be speeding in the first place.
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Rogue Hippo
Title: Lone Wolf Hippo
Joined: Jun 28 2010
Location: America's Wang
Posts: 245
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Speed traps prove to me that the police aren't just doing doing it to raise revenue. 90% of drivers speed. If they needed revenue they could pull virtually anyone over at any time and write them a ticket. They don't need to set up a trap.
Speed traps let them get the dangerous assholes who drive 25 mph over the limit because they think the coast is clear. Speed traps let them get the biggest threat, not the biggest payouts.
So F#^* the guy for warning everybody. He deserves to lose his legs in a car accident.
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
Posts: 7565
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I want to say something that a "speed trap" has a specific definition - it's a spot on a road that is designed to catch people speeding even if a driver is making an effort not to. A classic example is a place where around a corner the limit suddenly drops from 45 to 20 with no warning and you have a cop right behind the 20 sign. These kind of traps are unfair and illegal in several states.
I know it's common to refer to any cop with a radar gun as a "speed trap", but I just wanted to point that out.
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Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3112
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UsaSatsui wrote: |
I want to say something that a "speed trap" has a specific definition - it's a spot on a road that is designed to catch people speeding even if a driver is making an effort not to. A classic example is a place where around a corner the limit suddenly drops from 45 to 20 with no warning and you have a cop right behind the 20 sign. These kind of traps are unfair and illegal in several states.
I know it's common to refer to any cop with a radar gun as a "speed trap", but I just wanted to point that out. |
I don't know how it is with other states, but State Troopers in PA like to use unmarked cars a lot. It's happened a couple of times where you'll see some brown Crown Victoria do a U-Turn over the grass to catch a speeder going the opposite way. It definitely catches you off guard the first few times.
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 So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind. |
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
Posts: 7565
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Greg the White wrote: |
UsaSatsui wrote: |
I want to say something that a "speed trap" has a specific definition - it's a spot on a road that is designed to catch people speeding even if a driver is making an effort not to. A classic example is a place where around a corner the limit suddenly drops from 45 to 20 with no warning and you have a cop right behind the 20 sign. These kind of traps are unfair and illegal in several states.
I know it's common to refer to any cop with a radar gun as a "speed trap", but I just wanted to point that out. |
I don't know how it is with other states, but State Troopers in PA like to use unmarked cars a lot. It's happened a couple of times where you'll see some brown Crown Victoria do a U-Turn over the grass to catch a speeder going the opposite way. It definitely catches you off guard the first few times. |
That's legit. They're allowed to be deceptive. They're not allowed to manipulate you into breaking the law (that's what entrapment is).
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