In my opinion letting kids do what they want before they are old / mature enough to understand the consequences is irresponsible and dangerous.

Like Syd said he would have totally imitated Vegeta, and he may have been being factitious but it raises a good point.

Kids do not have any idea what is good or right for them, because kids are fucking stupid, or if you want to be more kind about it kids are not fully developed and cannot make rational and permanent decisions about their future because they need to grow and discover who they really are, and absorb / cultivate actual wisdom instead of regurgitating buzz words social trends and poorly thought out ideologies, anyone who lets a child do whatever they desire is a poor parent in the best of situations in my opinion. Which is highly ironic given I have no children, I should shut up shouldn't I?

When I was a kid I wanted yakuza style full body tattoos and piercings and died hair all that silly LOOK AT ME I'M REBELLING SO HARD stuff so bad, but my mother compromised with me. I could dress as retarded as I wanted but I would wait to make any permanent changes IE piercings and tattoos until I was of age.

By the time I was old enough to make those decisions on my own I found I did not want any piercings and that the meager tattoo I already had acquired was quiet enough, and if I had a time machine I'd probably go back and undo said tattoo. It's not noticeable or embarrassing but I've really outgrown the philosophy that engendered it, and wouldn't care if it got damaged or marred in any way. I don't need it anymore, but yet there it is, still, like a relic of a bygone era.

Kids aren't smart enough to make life altering decisions like this, hell even young adults aren't smart enough to do that, that's my only real problem with the situation. If the kids wants to be a girl he has plenty of time as a fully responsible for his own behavior adult to make that decision, letting him do what he wants now is akin to letting him skip school or smoke crack or eat plastic, children need structure and rules and authority and letting them rebel doesn't seem to be a good investment in the future in my opinion. But then again I think that when you undergo sex change surgery you're still what you walked in as, albeit a mutilated version, so I may just be some intolerant hate mongering beast, so if you feel that way then unread everything you just read.

Fighter_McWarrior wrote:

I'm not sure full body tattoos and piercings are fair to compare to playing with dolls and wearing dresses. All the parents have really said is that if their boy feels like acting in the manner a girl his age would, they're cool with that. So far, nothing with any permanent consequence has been done.

Very true very true, my main concern was that there may be a lack of structure / boundaries but I can't really assume that unless I know them personally now can I?

Hey that's a good counter point to the side of the fence that is totally opposed to anything like this. Bottling stuff instead of dealing with it can be severely damaging.

I beg to differ, unless / until a person born a man can be naturally become impregnated by another man, or a person born a woman can naturally impregnate a woman then they are not whatever gender they think or feel with the entirety of their heart they are because thinking something or believing something with all your heart does not make it true as sad as that sounds as a statement.

In my opinion they are human beings with some sort of chemical imbalance or mental / emotional issue or whatever somewhere that causes them to be conflicted about their gender identity, I am not a doctor so I cannot explain why or what the cause is. I want to assure you I am not trying to maintain some sort of normalcy or level of being "better" over people who are gender confused due to my religious and political beliefs and try and claim I am better as a person or some such rubbish.

I drink and I'm sure there are all sorts of wacky fucked up as well as reasonable reasons I do the way I do, so I understand being humans and having flaws. very much so.

I am sympathetic about these types of situations because I imagine that being confused about something (usually**) as concrete as gender identity can be frightening and traumatic and embarrassing, but just because someone insists they are a starfish because they feel it with ever fiber of their being does not make it so, and letting people think they have this magical control over physical reality just by calling a Humvee a 57 Chevy Impala and assuming it is so because they believe it cannot be good for their continual mental well being, despite whatever help they seek or do not seek.

Doesn't mean we have to call each other names about it when we disagree with each other, I think we are all able to converse about this politely and rationally, you should consider staying and talking it out.

All in all I made a big argument against faith, the target is wide open despite me not wanting it to be, but who am I to say I am allowed to have faith in something I cannot prove while denying those I disagree with both socially politically and dogmatically the same basic courtesy? Fire away I look forward to our discussion.

**In my opinion Hermaphrodites get to pick what they way, since they actually have both to choose from.

I may have been editing that while you were responding, and it was never my intention to hurt anyone's feelings.

But if I point out the truth (a man is a man because he has balls that carry semen that can impregnate a women, and a woman is a woman who can become pregnant by said impregnation due to her carrying ova) and remind people that they are what they are, not what they would like to think the are, how is that hurtful? What is wrong with the truth?

Where does the line lie when it comes to crossing it and pointing out the truth? Is it OK to tell a fat person to not wear short shorts? Is it OK to tell a white kid from the burbs that he is not black and from the ghetto? Where is this invisible line I'm inadvertently crossing when it comes to what it is OK to point out as fact and what it is not?

(I know these are poor examples but it is all I can think of this late at night when I try to think of people who think they are something that they are not, I'm not trying to trivialize transsexuals by putting them in the same group as wiggers and fatsos, its just the easiest comparable idea I can find where someone thinks they are A when they are clearly B, no offense intended)

I'm NOT trying to imply that it's wrong to have confusion about your gender due to a myriad of reasons or feel trapped by the lot in life you've been handed or whatever the genesis of gender confusion is, on the contrary I assume it would be extremely upsetting, but just because it is very traumatic doesn't change the facts in my opinion, a man is a man and a woman is a woman.

I just don't understand what is so "offensive" about calling it as I see it. Please don't take offence, I do not intend this offensively or inflammatory or mean spirited in any way shape or form. I guess maybe I am looking for a counter argument I can wrap my head / belief system around, because as it is the whole idea seems totally alien to me. Make me a believer is what I'm saying, my ears / eyes are open, sway me, make me get it, because I don't

*edit*

I guess what I'm looking for is a justifiable reason someone who started life as a man who "later became a woman" would not be totally forthcoming with that information when they end up with another man, since that is a fear that hetro males have. How is that deception OK in our worldview that is black and white, how is that justifiable?