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Posted: Aug 26 2011 08:23 pm

Yeah, it is. But that probably will be more fun on a PC, if only for nostalgia reasons. That is probably the only PC game I'll buy all decade, once I get a new PC.

Joined: Jun 08 2010 Location: Termina Field Posts: 1541

I personally think that PC gaming is not, and will never die. However, it isn't very strong, at least to me. The only games I play on my computer are Minecraft, Terraria and Team Fortress 2. And even those don't get much play-time. Hell, the games on my iPhone get more attention than those (only because they are always with me). I personally keep the amount of PC games I download and play down, because if I didn't, I'd keep downloading games, and soon enough, I'll run into a game that is too powerful for my laptop, forcing me to either upgrade, or deal with it.

The only thing I really use my computer for game-wise is emulation, but with good emulators available for iOS and Android, I am slowly going to my iOS devices for emulation.

I prefer my consoles and handhelds to PC gaming. There's more stuff I like, and playing them is always as simple as inserting the physical game media (if any) into my console or handheld, and then selecting it. PC gaming (especially hardcore) seems like it would require too much time, patience and money upgrading hardware. And I don't have enough of those three.

Also, I hookup my laptop to my TV, sometimes to play games, but usually because my laptop's screen is terrible, due to having a low (1366x768) screen resolution on a 17" screen. Not only does it look pixel-y, but there's hardly any room to multitask.

Joined: Mar 18 2010 Location: Tuonela Posts: 299

Industrywise, isn't "casual gaming" (Farmville, Habbo, Popcap-shit, etc.) one of the cornerstones of todays gaming? Pc also leads on the mmorpg and strategy fronts.

I use my pc mostly just for point n click -games. Just started Gray Matter. My god it kicks ass. PS3 controller would be a little clumsy for it, no doubt.

It used to be the same for western-style rpg's as well, until they started making those good on the consoles. I've tested Dragon Age: Origins (never mind the sequel) and Deus Ex: Human Revolution on the ps3 and pc, and I enjoyed the console version more. I will definedly buy The Witcher 2 and Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, when they come out for ps3.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

The argument that PC gaming is dead is just flat out wrong. The scope of PC gaming has been fast tracked beyond that of any other form of gaming. Everything is networked and the internet has forever changed the face of the industry. While Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft consoles each have their own online stores and game environments, those are limited and controlled venues for game distribution, networking and community.

Right now the PC alone has Steam, Battle Net, Origin, Desura, Games for Windows LIVE, Direct2Drive and a few other distribution portals. The ever changing and improving hardware that computers have allows the distribution providers to constantly renovate and reinvent new and improved methods of getting games to their customers.

But sales charts all show that PC gaming isn’t doing as well as consoles.
Game sales from Steam are now counted, but were not for several years. As far as I am aware, direct distribution does not get tallied. So is WoW being counted with 10+ million subscribers paying $15/month? Is Starcraft 2 counted? Is MineCraft Counted? And when SWTOR is released will it count?

The measurement system is flawed because it is based around an old model that stopped being relevant to PC gamers a few years ago.

If anything I would argue that PC gaming is a bigger deal than it ever was in the past and that it is evolving into something that will eventually replace consoles. The OnLive and Gaikai will allow games to be run behind the scenes and only stream input/output. Eventually this is how all consoles will run. It costs less, has no DRM issues, and the game experience becomes identical across all mediums. The argument of which controller is better might make sense, but long term the bullshit regarding game porting will be a thing of the past.

Until that amazing merge between consoles and PC’s happens, expect more shit talking about PC gaming. Just don’t assume that everyone who prefers using a PC to game is pretentious or snobby about it, it just works for us.

For what it is worth, I own a Wii and a DS. I have owned every Nintendo TV console except for the N64. I love some of the games offered on the platform and will continue to buy them. I am not shit talking consoles here. I am defending the fact that PC gaming is a good platform that has a healthy, growing future.

To be more on track with the original post though. Razer is not promoting the correct direction for PC gaming and their hype marking bullshit may be loud, but it isn’t relevant. They have already been written off by the community that they targeted with the ads.

Posted: Aug 27 2011 10:39 am

Syd Lexia wrote:

"But you can hook your computer up to your TV!" Yes, you can. But who the fuck actually does that? No one, except the absolute dregs of gamer society, the unwashed basement-dwelling techie nerd losers.

Uh, I do.... Sad

I started because my good computer monitor died, and I was stuck with an old 17" 1024x768 (max) monitor.

Flight/racing sims are fantastic on a 40" screen (only thing better would be three forty inch screens).

Of course, I don't buy games that require internet/limit installs/steam/etc, so my last PC game was Kings Bounty: Armored Princess/Crossworlds 2-pack from Wal-Mart (no DRM whatsoever). Unfortunately, the game is only mediocre.

Before that, the last game was World of Goo.

The last 'full-sized' game I bought for pc was Tomb Raider: Anniversary (they should have continued and remade TR2). That was a while ago, too. I would buy a lot more, but I'm not going to jump through their bullshit hoops to "rent" a game at full price, and humbly seek their permission whenever I want to play. Evil

Mr. Satire wrote:

Also, I hookup my laptop to my TV, sometimes to play games, but usually because my laptop's screen is terrible, due to having a low (1366x768) screen resolution on a 17" screen. Not only does it look pixel-y, but there's hardly any room to multitask.

??? My laptop is 1360x768 and doesn't look at all 'pixel-y' (although, yours is physically larger, so that might do it)

And being wide-screen I would think there is more room to multi-task. I do all the time. Just shrink your icons, scrollbars, buttons and fonts. Razz

Joined: Aug 04 2009 Posts: 2515

GPFontaine wrote:

The argument that PC gaming is dead is just flat out wrong. The scope of PC gaming has been fast tracked beyond that of any other form of gaming. Everything is networked and the internet has forever changed the face of the industry. While Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft consoles each have their own online stores and game environments, those are limited and controlled venues for game distribution, networking and community.

Right now the PC alone has Steam, Battle Net, Origin, Desura, Games for Windows LIVE, Direct2Drive and a few other distribution portals. The ever changing and improving hardware that computers have allows the distribution providers to constantly renovate and reinvent new and improved methods of getting games to their customers.

But sales charts all show that PC gaming isn’t doing as well as consoles.
Game sales from Steam are now counted, but were not for several years. As far as I am aware, direct distribution does not get tallied. So is WoW being counted with 10+ million subscribers paying $15/month? Is Starcraft 2 counted? Is MineCraft Counted? And when SWTOR is released will it count?

The measurement system is flawed because it is based around an old model that stopped being relevant to PC gamers a few years ago.

If anything I would argue that PC gaming is a bigger deal than it ever was in the past and that it is evolving into something that will eventually replace consoles. The OnLive and Gaikai will allow games to be run behind the scenes and only stream input/output. Eventually this is how all consoles will run. It costs less, has no DRM issues, and the game experience becomes identical across all mediums. The argument of which controller is better might make sense, but long term the bullshit regarding game porting will be a thing of the past.

Until that amazing merge between consoles and PC’s happens, expect more shit talking about PC gaming. Just don’t assume that everyone who prefers using a PC to game is pretentious or snobby about it, it just works for us.

For what it is worth, I own a Wii and a DS. I have owned every Nintendo TV console except for the N64. I love some of the games offered on the platform and will continue to buy them. I am not shit talking consoles here. I am defending the fact that PC gaming is a good platform that has a healthy, growing future.

To be more on track with the original post though. Razer is not promoting the correct direction for PC gaming and their hype marking bullshit may be loud, but it isn’t relevant. They have already been written off by the community that they targeted with the ads.

While i agree with this, there is one thing you forgot to mention. The effect of Piracy on PC game sales.

You can torrent basically anything, i'm not questioning whether people should use torrents or not but it seems to me that a lot of people just download new games when they come out so maybe that is why some people regard the PC market on the decline.

Wasn't there a decline in DS sales when people started pirating all the games for it?

Posted: Aug 27 2011 12:17 pm

This is more or less my gaming philosophy. Until I find a job and nab me an 360 or something, I'm playing things like half-life 2 and Knights of the old Republic.

The thing I love most about PC's is backward compatibility, especially with systems that have nothing to do with them! Wink

If I want to play a file of Fable, I can. If there's a strange itch in my heart to run across a desert in a hex-grid, there are plenty of hours of Fallout or Fallout 2 that run no problem on my cheap-ass setup. And on mornings I'm feeling particularly masochistic, there's plenty of DOTA clones to go around.

And I have had my share of OS compatibility problems. The great thing is, if the game was great enough, it's been fixed by someone, somewhere.

Knights of the Old Republic runs like a legless donkey on Windows 7, but thanks to a little help from my friends, I've kicked that Vader Wannabe's ass multiple times on a laptop that got price-slashed at staples because no-one was buying it. That was a year ago.

Don't dis the PC. Its what everyone wanted to be since the beginning.

FAMICOM = FAMILY COMPUTER

Posted: Aug 27 2011 05:53 pm

I think PC gaming has the same problem that the Atari 2600 had. There is too much stuff coming out and there is no quality control. Direct distribution is largely to blame for this, though it's not the first time that it's happening. In the early-to-mid 90s, a wave of crappy shareware games swept through the BBS systems after companies like Id and Apogee had success with that business model.

PSN, WiiWare, and XBLA suffer from the same problems. I very rarely buy anything off direct distribution services unless it's a port, sequel, or remake of something I already liked.

Posted: Aug 27 2011 06:41 pm

They should port Mega Man Legends to PC.

Posted: Aug 27 2011 07:40 pm

Syd Lexia wrote:

I think PC gaming has the same problem that the Atari 2600 had. There is too much stuff coming out and there is no quality control. Direct distribution is largely to blame for this, though it's not the first time that it's happening. In the early-to-mid 90s, a wave of crappy shareware games swept through the BBS systems after companies like Id and Apogee had success with that business model.

PSN, WiiWare, and XBLA suffer from the same problems. I very rarely buy anything off direct distribution services unless it's a port, sequel, or remake of something I already liked.

right. cuz the wii has no crappy games on it

Posted: Aug 27 2011 08:19 pm

Oh, it does. But there seem to be more review sites for boxed console games, and it's easier to track the releases of boxed console games.

Joined: Apr 09 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3112

Syd Lexia wrote:

I think PC gaming has the same problem that the Atari 2600 had. There is too much stuff coming out and there is no quality control. Direct distribution is largely to blame for this, though it's not the first time that it's happening. In the early-to-mid 90s, a wave of crappy shareware games swept through the BBS systems after companies like Id and Apogee had success with that business model.

PSN, WiiWare, and XBLA suffer from the same problems. I very rarely buy anything off direct distribution services unless it's a port, sequel, or remake of something I already liked.

XBLA isn't too bad. There's some "meh" stuff, but at least there's a bit of quality control (My favorite game of the past few years is Bastion, and that was on XBLA). Xbox Indie Channel is a fucking nightmare, though. Unless you like Minecraft rip-offs or the latest "Ninja Poker Zombie Tower Defense Dating Sim vol. 22," it's just a swamp of crap. It's a shame, because if you look at the "Kotaku Picks" section, there's some decent stuff mixed in. My problem with the distributors is kind of the opposite of yours, in that there are too many lazy ports, or cheap revivals (mostly to probably keep hold on old licenses).

PC gaming is far from "dead," but it's just not leading the way like it used to. It used to be the only place to play online, then Dreamcast came in. It used to be the only place to play shooters, then Halo was released. Now, all it has are MMOs, which are basically all WoW clones at this point, RTS's (i.e. the most stagnant genre available), more people in multiplayer matches (play with even more obnoxious assholes per game), and graphics, but with consoles getting more powerful, and companies learning how to develop for them, only the most hardcore screenshot-examining dregs of society give a crap. I will give that having mods are a nice addition, and something that I miss, but not enough to return. The most annoying problem, though is that a large amount of PC gamers are becoming the whiniest, most entitled little bastards on the planet, finding whatever reasons they can to steal games, the absolute worst being when they used the first Humble Indie Bundle's own servers to pirate games, resulting in a charity drive losing money in order to accommodate their laziness.

Posted: Aug 27 2011 09:09 pm

And God forbid you put DRM on a PC game to try and curb piracy! If you do that, YOU ARE HITLER.

Posted: Aug 27 2011 11:47 pm

welcome to the forums thehexx

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Syd Lexia wrote:

And God forbid you put DRM on a PC game to try and curb piracy! If you do that, YOU ARE HITLER.

DRM comes in many forms. Most people don't care about them, however there are a few forms of DRM that are uncool.

1. Rootkit DRM. Putting a virus on someone's computer so that they don't steal your games is not ok. It will never be OK. DRM should start and end when the game starts and ends.
2. Always ON Internet requirement for single player games. If the applications are keyed from any of the online distributors there is no reason to insist upon online play, the game has been specifically keyed for the user and can't be stolen without the executable being hacked.
3. Any DRM that limits total installations. If you reinstall your computer 4 times the game shouldn't suddenly become unplayable.

I am fine with a one time internet check-in or keyed app. Those are healthy forms of DRM that cause minimal pain to the people who buy their games legally.

Posted: Aug 28 2011 08:48 am

1. Isn't that a bit dramatic? Does a rootkit really effect you that much?
2. Agreed. This is dumb.
3. I would be fine with it, if companies agreed to release a patch removing it after five years. Five installations in five years is reasonable, but when I buy a game I'd like to own it forever. And I shouldn't have five installations forever. And after five years, a game's reasonably made all the money it's going to make, excluding bonus-packed graphically enhanced remakes.

But this illustrates why console download services are more desirable to devs. None of these problems exist.

Posted: Aug 28 2011 10:13 am

I think another point is that we're reaching a point of diminishing returns when it comes to graphical capability. Eventually (and I think sooner rather than later), we're going to reach a point where graphics are "good enough" across the board, and thus PC gaming will no longer hold that advantage.

Posted: Aug 28 2011 01:51 pm

im ok w/entering CD keys myself.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Syd Lexia wrote:

1. Isn't that a bit dramatic? Does a rootkit really effect you that much?

No, it isn't. In fact I should be more outraged by the concept that a company thinks that they are allowed to install anything onto a computer that cannot be detected or uninstalled.

An operating system is a platform for many applications. Just because you want one does not mean you want another, and you should always have the right to back out.

Joined: Apr 09 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3112

Yeah, DRM is a touchy area. One of the problems is that the current ways don't really hit pirates. Most pirates know how to get around that, and they'll put copies out there with no DRM, which only leaves paying customers that have the DRM on their computers. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, and I can see arguments on all sides except for the pirates.

Posted: Aug 28 2011 05:45 pm

GPFontaine wrote:

Syd Lexia wrote:

And God forbid you put DRM on a PC game to try and curb piracy! If you do that, YOU ARE HITLER.

2. Always ON Internet requirement for single player games. If the applications are keyed from any of the online distributors there is no reason to insist upon online play, the game has been specifically keyed for the user and can't be stolen without the executable being hacked.

That form always pisses me off when I wanted to play Half-Life, or use the Hammer Map Editor. I just want to build a map, but why am I being forced to be online?

Joined: Jun 08 2010 Location: Termina Field Posts: 1541

Etch wrote:

Mr. Satire wrote:

Also, I hookup my laptop to my TV, sometimes to play games, but usually because my laptop's screen is terrible, due to having a low (1366x768) screen resolution on a 17" screen. Not only does it look pixel-y, but there's hardly any room to multitask.

??? My laptop is 1360x768 and doesn't look at all 'pixel-y' (although, yours is physically larger, so that might do it)

And being wide-screen I would think there is more room to multi-task. I do all the time. Just shrink your icons, scrollbars, buttons and fonts. Razz

I don't like changing sizes of UI elements on Windows. Otherwise they look terrible, due to microsoft's preference of bitmap graphics. And yes, my screen does look pixelated, but that might be due to how much I like high DPI 'retina' displays. Also, you can get netbooks with the same screen resolution as my laptop, yet a much smaller physical screen size.