This doesn't have much to do with the fourth amendment, honestly. It doesn't say that the fourth amendment is only a suggestion or doesn't protect you. It's about whether or not you have the right to resist a law enforcement officer attempting to effect an arrest upon you. You don't. And to be perfectly frank, I'm okay with this.

Quite simply, police have enough to worry about when they arrest someone. This shouldn't be added to the list. In my opinion, if you resist a police officer, and you come out of the encounter alive, you're lucky. Let the cop do his job, then talk to him after he gets control of the situation...you will have a much higher success rate than you will socking him in the jaw, believe me.

If the arrest is illegal, it will be voided. If the search is unconstitutional, the results can't be used against you. And you always have redress through the civil court system. The time to contest the search and arrest is after the fact, not during.

The-Excel wrote:

UsaSatsui wrote: If the arrest is illegal, it will be voided. If the search is unconstitutional, the results can't be used against you. And you always have redress through the civil court system. The time to contest the search and arrest is after the fact, not during. Are unwarranted searches unconstitutional by default?

No. There are a handful of situations where a search without a warrant is legal.

The ones most people need to worry about are consent (don't agree to let a cop "have a look around") and plain sight (don't leave your illegal shit where anyone can see it).

Izzy wrote:

This is the end result of decisions like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston_shooting

No. That is the end result these decisions are trying to prevent.

That is what is likely to happen when people are trying to resist arrest when the police break into their house. They get shot. I simply can not see how it can be considered okay to encourage that.

Please read this closer, guys. It is not saying police have the right to break your door down without cause. It's saying that if they do break your door down without cause, you don't have the right, AT THE TIME IT IS HAPPENING, to attempt to repel them. This is something that protects police officers and the people they are trying to detain or arrest. It does not make the search or arrest legal, permissible, wanted, desirable, or even a "good thing" from any standpoint. But the time to sort that shit out is not when a SWAT team is trying to take control of a situation that very well could be dangerous.

As to how you get compensated for your right to privacy being invaded...I'm sure "money" will do for most people.

Izzy wrote:

This flies directly in the face of private property rights. Instead of curbing the use of "unlawful" police entry into homes, they are telling the people to let it happen.

Well, what the fuck do you expect them to say? "If a cop enters your house, and you don't want him there, shoot him?"

I don't know what kind of world you think police live in, but how about a little respect for the guys who risk their lives on a daily basis, and for whom it is not hyperbole to say they could be killed at any moment while doing their jobs.

Do you really, really, really think police are thinking "You know what? Let's fuck with someone's right to privacy today!" when they go into someone's home? Of course they're not. They're doing what they're told to do, their jobs. Yes, sometimes a police officer executes an illegal search, but that's not the norm, and even in most of those cases the officers believe they're following the law (like I said, what's legal and what isn't gets sorted out after the fact).

This is not taking your fourth amendment rights away. This is protecting officers that are just doing their jobs, acting in good faith, and trying to control a stressful, dangerous situation. Again, it is not giving them permission to just open doors and walk in wherever they want.

username wrote:

aika wrote: Izzy wrote: This flies directly in the face of private property rights. Instead of curbing the use of "unlawful" police entry into homes, they are telling the people to let it happen. Yes, because those are the big guys with the guns who are busting your door down. What part of it makes you think you should be resisting them? Seriously, complying with police is probably the best way to deal with them. If you're polite, responsive, and respect their authority, things will go a lot easier. If you're not being a bad boy and have nothing to hide, then what's the big deal? unless you dont know they are cops. if they are undercover, and they break down your door in the middle of the night, your first thought is "fight or flight."

20 guys bust into my apartment shouting "POLICE!!!!!!!", I'm gonna assume they're police officers.