Artefacts discovered in a remote cave in Jordan could hold a contemporary account of the last years of Jesus.
The find of scrolls and 70 lead codices - tiny credit-card-sized volumes containing ancient Hebrew script talking of the Messiah and the Resurrection - has excited biblical scholars.
Much of the writing is in code, but experts have deciphered images, symbols and a few words and the texts could be 2,000 years old.
A 16th century painting depicting Jesus's death. The texts found in Jordan, if genuine, would be among the earliest Christian writings. The 70 codices are said to contain passages in ancient Hebrew about Jesus and the Resurrection.
sounds like more BS, but still kind of interesting in a 'what if?' scenario. i hope his last years were spent leveling his bulbasaur up.
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Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 5228
Posted:
Mar 25 2011 02:52 am
Why does it sound like BS? It's not like this is proof to the world that Jesus was the messiah. While some people disagree, which I find about as ignorant as saying the world is only 4000 years old, there absolutely was a person named Jesus born ~0 AD who was crucified by the Romans at the age of 33 because people of the time believed him to be the messiah. The fact that people of the time would have wanted to write about it (and had to in secret due to persecution) is hardly a revelation. It's always cool when artifacts turn up and it'd be interesting if there's (relevant) information in these writings that isn't present in other primary source documents, but the mere discovery doesn't have any immediate or groundbreaking implications that are cause to call them BS.
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Vaenamoenen
Joined: Mar 18 2010
Location: Tuonela
Posts: 299
Posted:
Mar 25 2011 04:13 am
It also should be noted, that messiah claimants were abundant in those times. The fact that this particular Jewish sect led by Jesus got so successful was due to many things, but they had competition. If those tablets are real, they could refer basically to anybody.
It also should be noted, that messiah claimants were abundant in those times. The fact that this particular Jewish sect led by Jesus got so successful was due to many things, but they had competition. If those tablets are real, they could refer basically to anybody.
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aeonic
Title: Sporadic Poster
Joined: Nov 19 2009
Location: Kissimmee, FL
Posts: 2747
Posted:
Mar 25 2011 10:14 am
I'll wait until I can see more information on this before passing judgement. That article, at least the first one, wasn't really put together too well.
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Blackout
Title: Captain Oblivious
Joined: Sep 01 2007
Location: That Rainy State
Posts: 10376
Posted:
Mar 26 2011 04:04 pm
What does that painting have to do with it? I want to see the tablets, did the asshat who discovered them not have a cell phone with a camera on him or something?
TheRoboSleuth
Title: Sleuth Mark IV
Joined: Aug 08 2006
Location: The Gritty Future
Posts: 2739
Posted:
Mar 26 2011 05:26 pm
Nifty, but first they need to be certified proper. That is to say, linked to the time and place as appropriate. If so, its a serious boon to the archaeological world.
Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Posts: 5316
Posted:
Mar 26 2011 05:47 pm
"On this episode of Pawn Stars..."
Drew Linky
Wizard
Joined: Jun 12 2009
Posts: 4209
Posted:
Mar 26 2011 10:32 pm
Doddsino wrote:
"On this episode of Pawn Stars..."
Ohhhh yeah.
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16136
Posted:
Mar 31 2011 12:04 am
since its related to the OP
Quote:
Biggest find since the Dead Sea Scrolls? Seventy metal books found in cave in Jordan could change our view of Biblical history
For scholars of faith and history, it is a treasure trove too precious for price.
This ancient collection of 70 tiny books, their lead pages bound with wire, could unlock some of the secrets of the earliest days of Christianity.
Academics are divided as to their authenticity but say that if verified, they could prove as pivotal as the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947.
On pages not much bigger than a credit card, are images, symbols and words that appear to refer to the Messiah and, possibly even, to the Crucifixion and Resurrection.
Adding to the intrigue, many of the books are sealed, prompting academics to speculate they are actually the lost collection of codices mentioned in the Bible’s Book Of Revelation.
Biggest find since the Dead Sea Scrolls? Seventy metal books found in cave in Jordan could change our view of Biblical history
For scholars of faith and history, it is a treasure trove too precious for price.
This ancient collection of 70 tiny books, their lead pages bound with wire, could unlock some of the secrets of the earliest days of Christianity.
Academics are divided as to their authenticity but say that if verified, they could prove as pivotal as the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947.
On pages not much bigger than a credit card, are images, symbols and words that appear to refer to the Messiah and, possibly even, to the Crucifixion and Resurrection.
Adding to the intrigue, many of the books are sealed, prompting academics to speculate they are actually the lost collection of codices mentioned in the Bible’s Book Of Revelation.
"This estimate is based on the form of corrosion which has taken place, which experts believe would be impossible to achieve artificially."
So i guess it's cool to be able to date that stuff but if you do any other type of dating and it's over 5000 years old i guess it's wrong. I guess dating only suits them when they feel like it.
Also the biggest point of all.... so what?
They are saying this could change biblical history... need i point out that there are literally hundreds if not thousands of christian denominations and within some of these denominations some accept different books than others. I'm pretty sure there is a mormon bible with it's own books and there are countless other books, some of which haven't been included at all.
Just because this is some new history doesn't mean that all these denominations will agree and they may just omit it. Some christians take the bible totally as true, some use it as allegories. What if this new evidence contradicts some practice or belief they have?
They will just discard it.
It's more likely that a hundred new denominations will be born out of this.
Also lets be honest, they could say anything. I also wouldn't be surprised if the church just decided to make up what they meant. I really wouldn't put it past them.
JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
Posts: 6544
Posted:
Mar 31 2011 09:00 am
*Makes handjob gesture at Alowishus.*
aeonic
Title: Sporadic Poster
Joined: Nov 19 2009
Location: Kissimmee, FL
Posts: 2747
Posted:
Mar 31 2011 09:31 am
Alowishus wrote:
Okay i have a few criticisms.
First:
"This estimate is based on the form of corrosion which has taken place, which experts believe would be impossible to achieve artificially."
So i guess it's cool to be able to date that stuff but if you do any other type of dating and it's over 5000 years old i guess it's wrong. I guess dating only suits them when they feel like it.
Testing metals, which is what it's composed of, is much easier to do than carbon dating. Judging by the patina on the metal and it's chemical content, it should give scientists a very good idea when it was made. Metal, especially worked metal, is somewhat easier to date than radiocarbon dating, which you seem to be referring to.
Alowishus wrote:
Also the biggest point of all.... so what?
They are saying this could change biblical history... need i point out that there are literally hundreds if not thousands of christian denominations and within some of these denominations some accept different books than others. I'm pretty sure there is a mormon bible with it's own books and there are countless other books, some of which haven't been included at all.
Just because this is some new history doesn't mean that all these denominations will agree and they may just omit it. Some christians take the bible totally as true, some use it as allegories. What if this new evidence contradicts some practice or belief they have?
They will just discard it.
It's more likely that a hundred new denominations will be born out of this.
Also lets be honest, they could say anything. I also wouldn't be surprised if the church just decided to make up what they meant. I really wouldn't put it past them.
First off, by "the church", do you mean the Roman Catholic Church? To my understanding, yeah, they don't have it. And you're really missing the point. Any religion, any single one, usually has countless different denominations because not all people interpret Scripture (be it Christian, Islamic, Hebrew, occult, etc) the same. To be honest, the world would be a kind of boring place. As far as interpretation goes, considering it's import, I doubt that just one group will get to see what it says; the Holy See, especially, doesn't really have a lot of muscle when it comes to things in the Middle East, and hasn't for quite some time.
More importantly, if it does detail information about Jesus's life, many, many people may find it beneficial or comforting to have that knowledge. Apart from his youth and his time preaching the Gospel, there's a real dearth of information on Jesus, much like there are many other holy people (Mohammed, Lao-Tze and others). Each of them 'went off into the wilderness' so to speak and left many people wondering just what they'd done. I, for one, am very interested in seeing what kind of fruit this could bear, and so are a lot of other people. That's so what.
*handjob gesture ditto'ed*
Who likes role-playing games? Me. Way too goddamn much.
Alowishus
Joined: Aug 04 2009
Posts: 2515
Posted:
Mar 31 2011 10:30 am
Excuse the crudity of this I'm on my iPod. You don't need to tell me how dating works I know how it works since my DEGREE is based on dating and chronology.
I don't want to break the rules here regarding this but I will say what I have to. I live in a country in which war over religion has been continuous for hundreds of years. I am talking about all of Christianity, Methodist, Presbyterian, Church of Ireland, Roman Catholic etc. They all teach Christian ideals differently. They will all interpret the new text differently which is what I said before you did the fucking hand job sign. I also think I know what I am talking about I was a Methodist for 17 years, I've been to lots of churches and I know what they teach so dont act like I don't know what I'm talking about. Also this wasn't even an attack I was merely saying this is what may happen because of different views and you send in the cavalry.
EDITED TO FIX IPOD SPELLING
aeonic
Title: Sporadic Poster
Joined: Nov 19 2009
Location: Kissimmee, FL
Posts: 2747
Posted:
Mar 31 2011 10:50 am
I knew it wasn't an attack, but what caught in my craw was your "so what" question. So what is that a lot of people are very interested in seeing how this turns out. And if you don't want the handjob sign, don't be a jerkoff with derisiveness about a topic that genuinely interests quite a lot of people. I'm certain that people will interpret things differently, as you'd asserted. I wouldn't be surprised if some crazy cult takes a Kool-Aid death trip because of it. That said, it's still an important topic. And for the record, I am a Christian, and I do believe in radiocarbon dating and that the world is well over 10,000 years and some change old.
Who likes role-playing games? Me. Way too goddamn much.
JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
Posts: 6544
Posted:
Mar 31 2011 10:54 am
For the record my handjob motion was clearly in jest, poking fun at someone with opposing viewpoints. I didn't mean to come off as a dick if I did.