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Posted: Nov 23 2010 11:04 am

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/23/nkorea.skorea.military.fire/index.html?hpt=T1

tl;dr:

Quote:

North Korea launched about 100 artillery shells at Yeonpyeong Island. Killing two South Korean Marines and Injuring 15 Soldiers and Civilians. South Korea's military responded with more than 80 rounds of artillery and deployed fighter jets to counter the fire.

North Korea, meanwhile, said the incident stemmed from South Korean military drills, codenamed Hoguk, exercises that Pyongyang calls "war maneuvers for a war of aggression."

Fucking North Korea, and they sunk a South Korean Warship earlier this year. They're fucking up everything on that side of the world. My concern is that it would actually concern US Warships if the US got involved against an actual Navy. They need to checky check themselfs before they wreck themselfs.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 11:44 am

This definitely falls under the "bad things" category.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 12:04 pm

I fucking hate the Korea bullshit. It is inevitable that this will be the next war on our list. Can we really manage three at once? with N. Korea having a legit military operation? Fucking scary shit.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 12:55 pm

Rydog wrote:

Can we really manage three at once? with N. Korea having a legit military operation?

My worry.

And shit with Iran isn't getting any better. Buckle your seatbelts kids. It could become a bumpy ride.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

There is no doubt in my mind that our best option would be to try and be better friends with China and let them deal with this.

While they seem to always support North Korea, a real war involving us in their area of the world must be unsettling and undesirable. I think China could simply ask North Korea to knock it off and they would listen. It would have to be a very stern "Knock it off!" though.

As much as it sucks, we can't afford to be in this one. I would guess that unless we were directly attacked or a first world ally of ours was attacked, the US population won't support a major war effort again for a very long time.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 01:20 pm

You know those nuclear bombs we have that are just sitting around gathering dust? Obama wants to get rid of them so bad, here's his chance.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 01:24 pm

You know what? Let's go to war with Korea. I guarantee Obama won't get reelected if we do. </Rovian machinations>

Joined: Mar 18 2010 Location: Tuonela Posts: 299

Scary, but I think this has something to do with North Koreas next leader, as speculated here. They need to build up a leadership cult for Kim Jong-Un from scratch, and that requires some "merits" or "accomplishments". So this was in essence, a demonstration of power.

War would be a disaster for both (and therefore unlikely), as they're both cabable of tearing each others infrastructure apart. North Korea may be a lot weaker in terms of economy or allies, but it has at least 8 million soldiers in reserve, and possibly nukes as well.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 01:37 pm

Oh GREAT. I knew it would come. Guess I better pack my bags and get ready for the enormous recall of troops they'll be needing to go to war with the North Koreans.

Serious question, what the fuck is wrong with Asia? It seems like that every asshole on Earth migrates there when they start disliking the USA. Why is North Korea so barbaric? Maybe I'm culturally retarded, but I'm pretty sure it's not common practice in the rest of the civilized world to go shelling a village because you want attention or whatever the fuck it is that buck toothed little shit wants.

Fuck North Korea. It's a shit idea to wage a ground war with them, it'll go just as well is it did last time. Send in the Air Force and let them carpet bomb the holy Hell out of them.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 01:59 pm

Joe_Killer wrote:

Why is North Korea so barbaric? Maybe I'm culturally retarded, but I'm pretty sure it's not common practice in the rest of the civilized world to go shelling a village because you want attention or whatever the fuck it is that buck toothed little shit wants.

It's because Kim Jong Il has mental issues. Everyone who works with, or studies, East Asia can agree that Kim Jong Il is a problem. He does not behave rationally, which makes predicting and planning political moves rather difficult. As a dictator him and his advisers have total control over the media, which they use to make him appear borderline godlike to the country's population. I remember the story that made front page news about him a few years back that simply claimed he had made a hole in one on a particularly difficult golf course, and that only their esteemed, enlightened leader Kim Jong Il could ever accomplish such a difficult hole-in-one.

In short, the guy is a nutcase, and he's in total control of a freakin country. A lot of people are hoping that when he dies and his son takes power that things will be better, but if his son has the same advisers as his father, there doesn't seem to be much hope for that.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 02:07 pm

Why can't North Korea and South Korea trade Magic cards instead?

Posted: Nov 23 2010 02:22 pm

I admit that I'm pretty ignorant on this topic, so someone please enlighten me. Why do we care if N and S Korea fight each other? Is there some legitimate strategic significance to our helping S Korea? Why can't we just let them fight it out amongst themselves? Or is this just another case of the US diving head first into every conflict on Earth?

Posted: Nov 23 2010 02:31 pm

Ice2SeeYou wrote:

I admit that I'm pretty ignorant on this topic, so someone please enlighten me. Why do we care if N and S Korea fight each other? Is there some legitimate strategic significance to our helping S Korea? Why can't we just let them fight it out amongst themselves? Or is this just another case of the US diving head first into every conflict on Earth?

If memory serves, we helped them last time because if South Korea fell, it'd be turned into a communist state by North Korea. Now, we have some 28,000 troops stationed there, which is good as it allows us to get troops to our allies on the other side of the world much more quickly if any shit goes down than if we had to send them out from the US.

Also, if shit goes down, we won't just let them "fight it out themselves," because likely 1: South Korea will ask us for help, 2: it would be odd not to lend it when we already have troops there, and 3: the US doesn't often ignore its allies when they ask for aid.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 02:56 pm

Did you ever overthink the effect of an alien invasion on this whole conflict? I bet you haven't!

Posted: Nov 23 2010 03:03 pm

The fact that we already have troops there is a pretty compelling reason. But I guess I don't see why it would matter to us so much if S Korea fell under a communist regime. To my knowledge, they're not an economic superpower. I also appreciate the military stragetic advantage of being able to launch/harbor troops there, but we've got other friendly nations in the area (Japan, India, Israel) that could serve the same purpose. I suppose the big picture here is a future war with China......it would definitely be better to have as many available bases around them as possible.

And while yes, historically the US doesn't turn its back on allies in need, that doesn't make it a good reason to continue that tradition. In fact, it's a big part of the reason why so many countries hate us. IMO unless it was an ally of significant economic and strategic interest for us, the US should be staying out of any big conflicts right now.

Again, I'm trying to understand this situation better than I do, so feel free to rebut any or all of what I'm saying here.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Nov 23 2010 03:15 pm

Ice2SeeYou wrote:

And while yes, historically the US doesn't turn its back on allies in need, that doesn't make it a good reason to continue that tradition. In fact, it's a big part of the reason why so many countries hate us.

You seriously think that the reason the world supposedly hates us is because we stand by our allies and defend them?

Question

Seriously, man, that's why we -have- so many allies. You wanna see some hate, watch what happens when we back out of these obligations.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 03:18 pm

Yeah Ice, I agree with Usa. To be honest, your basically saying, "Fuck them unless they can help us in someway." That isn't exactly the principle attitude of America.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 03:20 pm

Ice2SeeYou wrote:

And while yes, historically the US doesn't turn its back on allies in need, that doesn't make it a good reason to continue that tradition. In fact, it's a big part of the reason why so many countries hate us. IMO unless it was an ally of significant economic and strategic interest for us, the US should be staying out of any big conflicts right now.

So... screw the little guys? :\ That's not a very friendly policy.

Also, no, the fact that we don't turn our backs on allies isn't why the rest of the world hates us; they hate us because we tend to go into conflicts (or even start them) without being asked to. That's they key point here, I think: whether or not we're asked to help. Our military presence wasn't requested in Iraq; we went there on our own agenda. If South Korea goes to war and asks for our help in defending itself and we go, the rest of the world isn't going to roll its eyes and say "oh, gawd, look at that stupid US of A again, going and helping countries in need."

We already have 28,000 troops there, at least from what I read, who are essentially just sitting on their hands at the moment. I don't see a problem in letting them help out if the two Koreas go to war. Finally, if we started a war in Iraq to bring about democracy (among other things), it seems unlikely that we'd then turn our backs on another country while they're invaded by communists.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 04:08 pm

aika wrote:

Joe_Killer wrote:

Why is North Korea so barbaric? Maybe I'm culturally retarded, but I'm pretty sure it's not common practice in the rest of the civilized world to go shelling a village because you want attention or whatever the fuck it is that buck toothed little shit wants.

It's because Kim Jong Il has mental issues. Everyone who works with, or studies, East Asia can agree that Kim Jong Il is a problem. He does not behave rationally, which makes predicting and planning political moves rather difficult. As a dictator him and his advisers have total control over the media, which they use to make him appear borderline godlike to the country's population. I remember the story that made front page news about him a few years back that simply claimed he had made a hole in one on a particularly difficult golf course, and that only their esteemed, enlightened leader Kim Jong Il could ever accomplish such a difficult hole-in-one.

In short, the guy is a nutcase, and he's in total control of a freakin country. A lot of people are hoping that when he dies and his son takes power that things will be better, but if his son has the same advisers as his father, there doesn't seem to be much hope for that.

Now I understand. But if his spawn is already acting like a nutbag and trying to beef his resume or whatever for the next great ruler of North Korea, do you think it'll be any different? If he's already a loon, I'm not sure his advisors are going to make a difference. Something tells me they don't last all that long anyway.

Joined: Oct 01 2009 Posts: 5316

If Kim Jong-il's kid is anything like Saddam's kids, then we're in deep trouble. I don't feel it'll ever come to this, as I think even China isn't stupid enough to harbor N. Korea's idiocracy.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Nov 23 2010 04:44 pm

I still think "the rest of the world hates us" is a vastly incorrect statement. Just saying.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 04:52 pm

UsaSatsui wrote:

I still think "the rest of the world hates us" is a vastly incorrect statement. Just saying.

The people who hate us are the people we put out of business.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 05:05 pm

UsaSatsui wrote:

I still think "the rest of the world hates us" is a vastly incorrect statement. Just saying.

My adventures overseas have shown me this.
"Oh Americans! You have money!"

When we're not willing to spend it on something, then we're the assholes of the world.

Posted: Nov 23 2010 05:12 pm

Ruh-roh, Raggy!

Posted: Nov 23 2010 05:30 pm

Syd Lexia wrote:

Why can't North Korea and South Korea trade Magic cards instead?

Because S. Korea plays Yu Gi Oh and that's the only reason N. Korea picks on them.