Yes, it is a fairly long article, but I found it extremely interesting. The Israelis found a way to live with high security and minimal impact. Why aren't we adopting any of their tactics?
The other day I was reading that the TSA has never been responsible for successfully stopping a terrorist attack. So... why do they get to or need to either A.) look at people naked or B.) grope them?
I would have thought that a country with as many security issues as Israel would be hard to travel through, but their constant exposure to threats has made it a part of life that they needed to figure out. So why are we trying to reinvent the fucking wheel?
Quote:
While North America's airports groan under the weight of another sea-change in security protocols, one word keeps popping out of the mouths of experts: Israelification.
That is, how can we make our airports more like Israel's, which deal with far greater terror threat with far less inconvenience.
"It is mindboggling for us Israelis to look at what happens in North America, because we went through this 50 years ago," said Rafi Sela, the president of AR Challenges, a global transportation security consultancy. He's worked with the RCMP, the U.S. Navy Seals and airports around the world.
"Israelis, unlike Canadians and Americans, don't take s--- from anybody. When the security agency in Israel (the ISA) started to tighten security and we had to wait in line for — not for hours — but 30 or 40 minutes, all hell broke loose here. We said, 'We're not going to do this. You're going to find a way that will take care of security without touching the efficiency of the airport."
That, in a nutshell is "Israelification" - a system that protects life and limb without annoying you to death.
Despite facing dozens of potential threats each day, the security set-up at Israel's largest hub, Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport, has not been breached since 2002, when a passenger mistakenly carried a handgun onto a flight. How do they manage that?
"The first thing you do is to look at who is coming into your airport," said Sela.
The first layer of actual security that greets travellers at Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion International Airport is a roadside check. All drivers are stopped and asked two questions: How are you? Where are you coming from?
"Two benign questions. The questions aren't important. The way people act when they answer them is," Sela said.
Officers are looking for nervousness or other signs of "distress" — behavioural profiling. Sela rejects the argument that profiling is discriminatory.
"The word 'profiling' is a political invention by people who don't want to do security," he said. "To us, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, young or old. It's just his behaviour. So what kind of privacy am I really stepping on when I'm doing this?"
Once you've parked your car or gotten off your bus, you pass through the second and third security perimeters.
Armed guards outside the terminal are trained to observe passengers as they move toward the doors, again looking for odd behaviour. At Ben Gurion's half-dozen entrances, another layer of security are watching. At this point, some travellers will be randomly taken aside, and their person and their luggage run through a magnometer.
"This is to see that you don't have heavy metals on you or something that looks suspicious," said Sela.
You are now in the terminal. As you approach your airline check-in desk, a trained interviewer takes your passport and ticket. They ask a series of questions: Who packed your luggage? Has it left your side?
"The whole time, they are looking into your eyes — which is very embarrassing. But this is one of the ways they figure out if you are suspicious or not. It takes 20, 25 seconds," said Sela.
Lines are staggered. People are not allowed to bunch up into inviting targets for a bomber who has gotten this far.
At the check-in desk, your luggage is scanned immediately in a purpose-built area. Sela plays devil's advocate — what if you have escaped the attention of the first four layers of security, and now try to pass a bag with a bomb in it?
"I once put this question to Jacques Duchesneau (the former head of the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority): say there is a bag with play-doh in it and two pens stuck in the play-doh. That is 'Bombs 101' to a screener. I asked Ducheneau, 'What would you do?' And he said, 'Evacuate the terminal.' And I said, 'Oh. My. God.'
"Take Pearson. Do you know how many people are in the terminal at all times? Many thousands. Let's say I'm (doing an evacuation) without panic — which will never happen. But let's say this is the case. How long will it take? Nobody thought about it. I said, 'Two days.'"
A screener at Ben-Gurion has a pair of better options.
First, the screening area is surrounded by contoured, blast-proof glass that can contain the detonation of up to 100 kilos of plastic explosive. Only the few dozen people within the screening area need be removed, and only to a point a few metres away.
Second, all the screening areas contain 'bomb boxes'. If a screener spots a suspect bag, he/she is trained to pick it up and place it in the box, which is blast proof. A bomb squad arrives shortly and wheels the box away for further investigation.
"This is a very small simple example of how we can simply stop a problem that would cripple one of your airports," Sela said.
Five security layers down: you now finally arrive at the only one which Ben-Gurion Airport shares with Pearson — the body and hand-luggage check.
"But here it is done completely, absolutely 180 degrees differently than it is done in North America," Sela said.
"First, it's fast — there's almost no line. That's because they're not looking for liquids, they're not looking at your shoes. They're not looking for everything they look for in North America. They just look at you," said Sela. "Even today with the heightened security in North America, they will check your items to death. But they will never look at you, at how you behave. They will never look into your eyes ... and that's how you figure out the bad guys from the good guys."
That's the process — six layers, four hard, two soft. The goal at Ben-Gurion is to move fliers from the parking lot to the airport lounge in a maximum of 25 minutes.
This doesn't begin to cover the off-site security net that failed so spectacularly in targeting would-be Flight 253 bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab — intelligence. In Israel, Sela said, a coordinated intelligence gathering operation produces a constantly evolving series of threat analyses and vulnerability studies.
"There is absolutely no intelligence and threat analysis done in Canada or the United States," Sela said. "Absolutely none."
But even without the intelligence, Sela maintains, Abdulmutallab would not have gotten past Ben Gurion Airport's behavioural profilers.
So. Eight years after 9/11, why are we still so reactive, so un-Israelified?
Working hard to dampen his outrage, Sela first blames our leaders, and then ourselves.
"We have a saying in Hebrew that it's much easier to look for a lost key under the light, than to look for the key where you actually lost it, because it's dark over there. That's exactly how (North American airport security officials) act," Sela said. "You can easily do what we do. You don't have to replace anything. You have to add just a little bit — technology, training. But you have to completely change the way you go about doing airport security. And that is something that the bureaucrats have a problem with. They are very well enclosed in their own concept."
And rather than fear, he suggests that outrage would be a far more powerful spur to provoking that change.
"Do you know why Israelis are so calm? We have brutal terror attacks on our civilians and still, life in Israel is pretty good. The reason is that people trust their defence forces, their police, their response teams and the security agencies. They know they're doing a good job. You can't say the same thing about Americans and Canadians. They don't trust anybody," Sela said. "But they say, 'So far, so good'. Then if something happens, all hell breaks loose and you've spent eight hours in an airport. Which is ridiculous. Not justifiable
"But, what can you do? Americans and Canadians are nice people and they will do anything because they were told to do so and because they don't know any different."
I agree with the article a good deal; however, there is always that "good actor" we're afraid of. The terrorist who practice time and time again talking to someone while having a bomb. They maybe take a bomb to a mall and practice talking to people while having such a deadly contraption. Walking normal, being fine around security. Perhaps that adds an extra layer of prep time, but still the possibility that much of the security is by passed by a person who puts themselves in the mind set (like the hand gun issue) that what they're doing is completely normal. If you obtain that psychological mind set, which i think is very well possible, especially with some prep (rehearsal). Then it leaves open some large dangers. I do think that type of security training wouldn't be bad to incorporate into the U.S. flights. Though I do see vulnerabilities in the style.
As for the profiling people, I like to go with the odds. If 90% of people with a certain tattoo on their forehead (for example) attempt to shoot up the place, then I'm going to check anyone with that tattoo. I understand the presumptious, and discriminatory mindset, but you just have to go with the odds.
The Opponent
Title: Forum Battle WINNER
Joined: Feb 24 2010
Location: The Danger Zone
Posts: 3495
Posted:
Nov 16 2010 02:37 pm
I get the feeling that all of the questioning will lead to a lot of false positives if this was implemented overnight.
I'm not a bad enough dude, but I am an edgy little shit. I'll do what I can.
Natsu
Joined: Sep 17 2010
Posts: 156
Posted:
Nov 16 2010 02:42 pm
All a false positive means is you check this person, which we're doing anyway. This process just gives a way to narrow who to check the most, as oppose to spending an equal amount of time on everybody (Which slows things down). I'm sure they also get false positives all the time, someone could be having a bad day, or be nervous or acting strange about something else entirely.
UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
Posts: 7565
Posted:
Nov 16 2010 03:27 pm
Quote:
The other day I was reading that the TSA has never been responsible for successfully stopping a terrorist attack.
Yeah, with all those friggin attacks we've been having. They're just useless, ain't they?
We haven't had an attack on the airlines in this country since the TSA was founded. Who's to say that just because they haven't actively stopped one, they're not effective? I'd say they're acting as an effective deterrent.
Quote:
"There is absolutely no intelligence and threat analysis done in Canada or the United States," Sela said. "Absolutely none."
I can't speak for Canada, but this is absolutely not true in the US.
As far as Israeli security measures in general...well, why not ask the Palestinians how they feel about them?
I get the feeling that all of the questioning will lead to a lot of false positives if this was implemented overnight.
It would be insane to immediately change everything overnight, but training people to do this job differently and slowly growing a new method would be something that could work.
UsaSatsui wrote:
Quote:
The other day I was reading that the TSA has never been responsible for successfully stopping a terrorist attack.
Yeah, with all those friggin attacks we've been having. They're just useless, ain't they?
We haven't had an attack on the airlines in this country since the TSA was founded. Who's to say that just because they haven't actively stopped one, they're not effective? I'd say they're acting as an effective deterrent.
Shoe bomber & Crotch Bomber...
Natsu
Joined: Sep 17 2010
Posts: 156
Posted:
Nov 16 2010 05:07 pm
Quote:
I can't speak for Canada, but this is absolutely not true in the US.
This could be semantics, perhaps he just means studying behavior in the airport. Surely outside we're gathering information, and intercepting calls and getting leaked info etc...
GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
Posted:
Nov 16 2010 05:16 pm
Natsu wrote:
Quote:
I can't speak for Canada, but this is absolutely not true in the US.
This could be semantics, perhaps he just means studying behavior in the airport. Surely outside we're gathering information, and intercepting calls and getting leaked info etc...
That is all that he is discussing. Just the airport experience.
Anthraxinsoup
Title: That one guy!
Joined: Sep 22 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 176
Posted:
Nov 16 2010 08:53 pm
>Israelis unlike Canadians or Americans
Stopped there, All I get is this is some Israeli who wants Israeli out the ass insane airport security in every airport.
LowEndLem
Title: Not Gay
Joined: Mar 19 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 966
Posted:
Nov 17 2010 12:47 am
Yeah, insanely low waits.
I'm fucking sick of having to get to the airports 2 hours early so my iTouch can be looked at by 5 different people.
<docinsano>i beat off using save states
<Tako> But, brontosaurs ate plants. It wouldn't be a threat to Jesus.
Why? Fuck you, that's why.
Pandajuice
Title: The Power of Grayskull
Joined: Oct 30 2008
Location: US and UK
Posts: 2649
Posted:
Nov 17 2010 07:35 am
I recently flew from England to California and back again in August, and I have to say, I really don't know what people are whining about when it comes to airports. On the way to Cali, I had a terrible experience which consisted of me being detained for an hour because of a toy gun I had in my luggage which caused me to miss my first flight, then a baggage delay caused me to miss my second flight but I eventually landed in California after travelling for 26 hours.
I was able to get there because of the extremely helpful airport staff and managers who personally took me under their wings, found me replacement flights, made sure I got on those flights and didn't even charge me for extra baggage; and this is after I broke one of their very clear rules - NO fucking gun-like anythings in your bags dumbass! Security is a breeze to go through too if you're not a total douchebag and do as they tell you. Sure, you have to wait in various lines for 20 minutes or more, but that's a small price to pay to know that you aren't going to blow up over the Atlantic.
GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
Posted:
Nov 17 2010 09:49 am
Anthraxinsoup wrote:
>Israelis unlike Canadians or Americans
Stopped there, All I get is this is some Israeli who wants Israeli out the ass insane airport security in every airport.
No, he is saying that right now we have invasive security measures that are ineffective. He is suggesting that we modify our ways based on a working model that is more effective and less invasive.
Also, how did you arrive at your conclusion when one of the few quoted lines prior to your dismissal of the whole thing was, "That is, how can we make our airports more like Israel's, which deal with far greater terror threat with far less inconvenience."
Panda,
I have had mixed experiences on flights. Some have included security checkpoints that are no more than 3 minutes, while others have required two hour waits and I almost missed my flights. The inconsistency is what I dislike the most, but second to that is the fact that if I am allowed through in 3 minutes, was I ever looked at?
Of course I am not a terrorist, but if the selection is random or subjective it will be long, tedious, and frustrating instead of routine and simplified. In the end, I'd rather have a consistant 20 minute experience that doesn't involve the one in four chance of being on nude scanners or having some random person touch my balls and does a good job of reducing bottle necks at the airport.
Atma
Title: Dragoon
Joined: Apr 29 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 2450
Posted:
Nov 17 2010 12:04 pm
My Theory is, If you don't like how security is run...
Don't Fucking Fly.
"Oh but I have to get from A to B, and you expect me to drive everywhere?!?!"
Boo Fucking Hoo. If you're pissed about driving, go through security. You have to play by their rules.
"But my job makes me fly, and this is horse-shit!"
Then suck it up and fly. Or guess what? In this economy I bet there are thousands of people who would be willing to take your job.
I fly around with the Military all the time, Yes it sucks. But if it means I'm getting there safely. Wonderful. Thats all I want.
GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
Posted:
Nov 17 2010 12:57 pm
No one is suggesting that security should be removed or reduced. It should simply be fixed so that it isn't an elongated personal imposition with limited results.
Also, this isn't just something just argued by this article or myself.
The state of New Jersey is actively legislating against the TSA.
Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24882
Posted:
Nov 17 2010 01:32 pm
UsaSatsui wrote:
Quote:
The other day I was reading that the TSA has never been responsible for successfully stopping a terrorist attack.
Yeah, with all those friggin attacks we've been having. They're just useless, ain't they?
We haven't had an attack on the airlines in this country since the TSA was founded. Who's to say that just because they haven't actively stopped one, they're not effective? I'd say they're acting as an effective deterrent.
Yeah, I haven't been raped by wild dogs since I started using Axe body spray. Just because I haven't seen rapey dogs stop in the middle of rape-intentioned leaps since I started using it doesn't mean it's not working.
I recently flew from England to California and back again in August, and I have to say, I really don't know what people are whining about when it comes to airports. On the way to Cali, I had a terrible experience which consisted of me being detained for an hour because of a toy gun I had in my luggage which caused me to miss my first flight, then a baggage delay caused me to miss my second flight but I eventually landed in California after travelling for 26 hours.
I was able to get there because of the extremely helpful airport staff and managers who personally took me under their wings, found me replacement flights, made sure I got on those flights and didn't even charge me for extra baggage; and this is after I broke one of their very clear rules - NO fucking gun-like anythings in your bags dumbass! Security is a breeze to go through too if you're not a total douchebag and do as they tell you. Sure, you have to wait in various lines for 20 minutes or more, but that's a small price to pay to know that you aren't going to blow up over the Atlantic.
QFT
Seriously. I would prefer a longer wait and more screening if it would mean more inconvenience for every asshole that I'm surrounded by at the airport. People are unbelievable these days. I'm half expecting someone to pull an Arnold and jump through the security screen because they don't want someone patting them down.
No, I don't think I will fuck Stummies.
The Opponent
Title: Forum Battle WINNER
Joined: Feb 24 2010
Location: The Danger Zone
Posts: 3495
Posted:
Nov 17 2010 01:35 pm
If I bring my laptop to a flight, what about it will they check?
I'm not a bad enough dude, but I am an edgy little shit. I'll do what I can.
GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
Posted:
Nov 17 2010 01:43 pm
The-Excel wrote:
If I bring my laptop to a flight, what about it will they check?
I have had two types of laptop security checks in the US.
First is they run it through the xray machine to verify if it is in fact a laptop and not just a plastic case.
Second has only happened to me once. I was asked to turn it on and prove that it is in fact a working laptop. Once powered on I was told that I can shut it off and be on my way.
It has never happened to me and from what I hear it is very rare, but U.S. Customs and Border Protection has the right to seize a laptop if they believe its contents might be dangerous.
Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24882
Posted:
Nov 17 2010 01:49 pm
I'm sorry, but most of you are being idiots. You're being told that airport security could be run more efficiently, and that it is being run more efficiently in one of the most dangerous places in the world. And you're like:
"BOO! THATS STUPID! WE DONT WANT EFFICIENCY! WE LIKE BEING GROPED AND INCONVENIENCED! ITS OUR FAVORITEST THING AND YOU CANT EVER TAKE IT AWAY! ALSO WE TYPE IN ALL CAPS AND DONT USE APOSTROPHES EVER!"
My advice to you guys is this:
1. Put down the crack pipe.
2. Stop typing in all caps.
3. Learn to use apostrophes.
4. No, really, put down the crack pipe.
5. Admit that the American airport security model is terrible and GPF is 100% right to support this story.
I've never had to fly before so I wouldn't know. I just want to know what to expect from people who had.
I'm not a bad enough dude, but I am an edgy little shit. I'll do what I can.
Atma
Title: Dragoon
Joined: Apr 29 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 2450
Posted:
Nov 17 2010 02:11 pm
Syd Lexia wrote:
5. Admit that the American airport security model is terrible and GPF is 100% right to support this story.
I never said this wasn't true.
What I'm saying is, while it's currently in place, instead of being a Grade-A Douche-Bag and slowing down the whole process, go with the flow and move on.
It's not like these security checks are a suprise to anyone. You know it's coming. Be Prepared for the mind fucking experence ahead. Am I saying we can't bitch about it and look for a better way to accomplish this? No. Not at all. What I'm getting at is, Don't be the asshole who wants to cause a scene at the airport because your a "rebel".
Until it's changed, keep your fucking mouth shut, and walk in the single file line or don't fly.
If you don't like it, be prepared to get every check they can throw at you done. I know if you're acting like a prick in my line, I would do everything I could to make your Security Experence miserable in a professional manner.
GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
Posted:
Nov 17 2010 02:15 pm
Atma wrote:
Syd Lexia wrote:
5. Admit that the American airport security model is terrible and GPF is 100% right to support this story.
I never said this wasn't true.
What I'm saying is, while it's currently in place, instead of being a Grade-A Douche-Bag and slowing down the whole process, go with the flow and move on.
It's not like these security checks are a suprise to anyone. You know it's coming. Be Prepared for the mind fucking experence ahead. Am I saying we can't bitch about it and look for a better way to accomplish this? No. Not at all. What I'm getting at is, Don't be the asshole who wants to cause a scene at the airport because your a "rebel".
Until it's changed, keep your fucking mouth shut, and walk in the single file line or don't fly.
If you don't like it, be prepared to get every check they can throw at you done. I know if you're acting like a prick in my line, I would do everything I could to make your Security Experence miserable in a professional manner.
I agree that if you must use the system, you know what to expect. However, I, like many others, believe that the system is flawed and that changes that have recently occurred are making it even worse. Our country's toleration of this weak system is not healthy for all honest going travelers.
Ice2SeeYou
Title: Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Joined: Sep 28 2008
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 1761
Posted:
Nov 17 2010 02:59 pm
That comedian Louie-something was on Leno (or Letterman, I forget which), and was talking about how people gripe about airport security. He made a great point......you're about to take part in the miracle that is human flight, and you're going to bitch about being an hour or two late?
Sydlexia.com - Where miserable bastards meet to call each other retards.
DarkMaze
Joined: Feb 24 2006
Posts: 2578
Posted:
Nov 17 2010 03:47 pm
Syd Lexia wrote:
Yeah, I haven't been raped by wild dogs since I started using Axe body spray. Just because I haven't seen rapey dogs stop in the middle of rape-intentioned leaps since I started using it doesn't mean it's not working.
Quoted for super truth.
GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
Posted:
Nov 17 2010 03:47 pm
Ice2SeeYou wrote:
That comedian Louie-something was on Leno (or Letterman, I forget which), and was talking about how people gripe about airport security. He made a great point......you're about to take part in the miracle that is human flight, and you're going to bitch about being an hour or two late?
The next time someone has a computer problem that causes their machine to slow down dramatically, I'll be sure to point out that they shouldn't bitch about that since the miracle of electronics allowed a computer to exist. At that point I'll walk away and give them the finger... maybe I'll be a bigger jerk and tell them to go to Best Buy.
We as a human race should be satisfied by the progress we have made, but not at the expense of progress we should make in the future.