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Obama's failed stimulus cost way more than Iraq


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Syd Lexia
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Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 12:56 pm Reply with quote Back to top

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Little-known-fact-Obamas-failed-stimulus-program-cost-more-than-the-Iraq-war-101302919.html

Been awhile since we've had a good political discussion so consider this:

* Obama's stimulus, passed in his first month in office, will cost more than the entire Iraq War -- more than $100 billion (15%) more.

* Just the first two years of Obama's stimulus cost more than the entire cost of the Iraq War under President Bush, or six years of that war.

* Iraq War spending accounted for just 3.2% of all federal spending while it lasted.

* Iraq War spending was not even one quarter of what we spent on Medicare in the same time frame.

* Iraq War spending was not even 15% of the total deficit spending in that time frame. The cumulative deficit, 2003-2010, would have been four-point-something trillion dollars with or without the Iraq War.

* The Iraq War accounts for less than 8% of the federal debt held by the public at the end of 2010 ($9.031 trillion).

* During Bush's Iraq years, 2003-2008, the federal government spent more on education that it did on the Iraq War. (State and local governments spent about ten times more.)
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JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 12:58 pm Reply with quote Back to top

When one of Obama's plans kills more people than the Iraq War, then I'll be shocked.


There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
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aeonic
Title: Sporadic Poster
Joined: Nov 19 2009
Location: Kissimmee, FL
PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 12:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

It's not even like it's real money, though. They (the govt.) just keeps shouting "print more!" and nobody (in the public) seems to care or even notice. As long as we're all comfortably ensconced with our iPads and our Twitter and our other technogeegaws, people aren't going to give a damn. I really, really hate most of the people that make up our country because they have absolutely no idea what's happening and they just vote for whoever panders to whatever side of the left/right fallacy that they think they're on.


Who likes role-playing games? Me. Way too goddamn much.
 
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Syd Lexia
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Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 01:06 pm Reply with quote Back to top

China could completely devalue the dollar at any time if they choose because we owe them so much money. It's scary.
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
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PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 01:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

What does one thing being a bigger waste of money than another thing have to do with anything? A waste of money is a waste of money.

I don't see any reason to care about this statistic.

Also, I find that about 90% of the time, a person using percentages is trying to mislead you.
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Slayer1
Title: ,,!,, for you know who
Joined: Sep 23 2008
PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 01:14 pm Reply with quote Back to top

When was the last time the American Economy was not in debt?
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aeonic
Title: Sporadic Poster
Joined: Nov 19 2009
Location: Kissimmee, FL
PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 01:30 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Technically during the nineties, where we managed to have a budgetary surplus, but that was on paper. To be honest, not really since the early 50s.


Who likes role-playing games? Me. Way too goddamn much.
 
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Syd Lexia
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PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 01:31 pm Reply with quote Back to top

A budget surplus isn't a lack of deficit. It simply means that in those particular years, the government spent less money than it took in. It didn't change the fact that we still owed trillions of dollars to other countries. But it was a good thing.
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
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PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 01:37 pm Reply with quote Back to top

"debt" is not the same as "deficit". The budget deficit is the difference between income and expenditures. The national debt is how much the country owes creditors. And the "economy" doesn't owe the debt, the country (and by extension, the people) do.

Currently, the national debt is at about $13 trillion. That's still not a significant percentage of our GNP, but it's a ton. It apparently did get entirely paid off, for a short time, in 1845.
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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 01:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
China could completely devalue the dollar at any time if they choose because we owe them so much money. It's scary.

Nah... the day they ask for all of it at once is the day we say no.

Lending cash between countries is how business is done, no one gets to just say "Pay up or else"



 
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Syd Lexia
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PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 01:41 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The national debt is alternatively referred to as the national deficit. But that's the point I was making: a budget deficit is not the same as the total sum of money we owe to other countries.
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Klimbatize
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PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 01:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, the difference here is the money on the stimulus is at least spent on our own country's infrastructure, and it saves jobs. Destroying a country that had never attacked us and had no plans to is an obscene waste of money in my mind. I'd rather my tax dollars go towards a police officer's or teacher's job, unemployment insurance, or public works projects rather then killing some people in Iraq that have nothing to do with me.

In the time of a recession, any economist that's not completely batshit crazy will tell you that the government should not stop spending money. That worsens the problem. For some reason people have it backwards. When the economy is going well, that's when the government can lower spending. When it's in the shitter, the government is a good stopgap until we get through it. Shutting down spending, unemployment benefits, etc is really freaking stupid in times like this.


Pretty much the greatest thread of all time: http://www.sydlexia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14789

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Syd Lexia
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PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 01:47 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The stimulus package doesn't really "save" jobs. It creates temporary jobs the same way FDR did in the 30s. The thing is, while some of these projects are much-needed things such as road repair, others are ridiculous. I'll spare you the details, but there are plenty of lists out there of ridiculous projects that stimulus money is being spent on. And the money being spent to create these jobs isn't worth it. For every dollar someone's earning, we're spending like a hundred. As much as I'm against government welfare, it would be cheaper and more effective to just write people checks than to come up with mindless busywork for them to do.
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Klimbatize
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PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 01:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

No matter what you think of the stimulus, the two huge expenditures have nothing in common and should not be compared with each other to show their merits. It's not even a contest.

The stimulus now supposedly costing more than the Iraq War does not suddenly justify it. I hate shit like this because it makes people complacent to big mistakes this country has made and, in turn, increases the likelihood that we repeat them. We need to always remember that the Iraq invasion and subsequent war was a disgusting waste of lives, money, and political capitol around the world. Distracting people with shit about how the stimulus costs more is irresponsible.

Also, the Stimulus has waste in it, but it still has saved and created jobs. Not sure how you can disagree with facts. Police officers, teachers, and other public servants who would have been laid off instead kept their jobs. There's more to it than that as well, but I'll spare you the factual details.


Pretty much the greatest thread of all time: http://www.sydlexia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14789

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Andrew Man
Title: Is a Funklord
Joined: Jan 30 2007
Location: Annandale, VA
PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 02:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Yea, how much China "owns" us now is in fact pretty terrifying.


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Pandajuice
Title: The Power of Grayskull
Joined: Oct 30 2008
Location: US and UK
PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 02:54 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
China could completely devalue the dollar at any time if they choose because we owe them so much money. It's scary.


The American dollar is already pretty weak against other currencies around the world, and like someone said before, what we owe to China is meaningless because it's not really money and they can't just demand that we pay up. China isn't going to attack us out of the blue because we owe them money; sorry fearmongers. In fact, we'll never pay it back, China won't do anything about it, and the deficit will continue to grow as it has for a hundred years.

It's not real money that has no impact whatsoever on the economy.

Also, didn't the stimulus bill pass under Bush's administration?
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Klimbatize
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PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 03:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Pandajuice wrote:
Also, didn't the stimulus bill pass under Bush's administration?

No, the stimulus passed within the first few months of the Obama administration. Bush passed the WallStreet bank bailouts.


Pretty much the greatest thread of all time: http://www.sydlexia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14789

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Syd Lexia
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PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 03:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

It would be ridiculous for China to even consider attacking us, aside from MAYBE Hawaii.
Fighting an intercontinental war simply doesn't work, unless you have strong allies already on the continent or unless your weapons are massively superior to your opponents' ones.

Besides, war isn't effective way to get people to pay up on a loan.
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LordHuffnPuff
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Joined: Jan 12 2009
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PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 03:26 pm Reply with quote Back to top

China won't devalue the dollar because if America collapses, so does China. There's too much interdependence in today's multipolar world for a stunt like that to be a good idea.


More information may be found here.
 
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Blackout
Title: Captain Oblivious
Joined: Sep 01 2007
Location: That Rainy State
PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 03:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

UsaSatsui wrote:
Also, I find that about 90% of the time, a person using percentages is trying to mislead you.

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, UsaSatsui. 14% of people know that.



 
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
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PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 04:03 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Doesn't China mostly carry US bonds, which are something that you can't just "call in"?

Also, as said, if China tries a stunt like that, it would most likely ruin them too. And the US economy is much more resilient.
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Slayer1
Title: ,,!,, for you know who
Joined: Sep 23 2008
PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 04:04 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Blackout wrote:
UsaSatsui wrote:
Also, I find that about 90% of the time, a person using percentages is trying to mislead you.

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, UsaSatsui. 14% of people know that.

and 2% realize how fun it is to make up fake percentages to get what they want
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The Opponent
Title: Forum Battle WINNER
Joined: Feb 24 2010
Location: The Danger Zone
PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 04:16 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm thinking of opening a website called the National Administrative Office of Polls and Surveys at http://www.naopas.org for the sole purpose of inventing statistics for people to use in inconsequential arguments just so they can feel superior. All I need is to hire a web designer. Like so many others said, statistics don't mean much when you try using them in discussions of current affairs, but people care so much about numbers that we forget this all too often.


I'm not a bad enough dude, but I am an edgy little shit. I'll do what I can.
 
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Ice2SeeYou
Title: Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Joined: Sep 28 2008
Location: South of Heaven
PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 05:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Yea well......my political agenda/viewpoints has a bigger dick than your political agenda/viewpoints.


Sydlexia.com - Where miserable bastards meet to call each other retards.
 
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Drew Linky
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Joined: Jun 12 2009
PostPosted: Aug 25 2010 05:51 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Sigh. Politics...

Bah. -waves hand-


https://discord.gg/homestuck is where you can find me literally 99% of the time. Stop on by if you feel like it, we're a nice crowd.
 
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