SydLexia.com - The Forums :: View topic - Stephen Hawking: aliens will kill us all.

Posted: Apr 26 2010 02:41 pm

Times Online wrote:

An advanced spacefaring extraterrestrial civilization could end up wandering the universe in enormous spaceships on the prowl for vital materials after consuming the natural resources of their own world, Hawking explains in an episode of the show "Into the Universe with Stephen Hawking," which premiered Sunday on the Discovery Channel.

"Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonize whatever planets they could reach," Hawking said. "If so, it makes sense for them to exploit each new planet for material to build more spaceships so they could move on. Who knows what the limits would be?"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7107207.ece

This actually does make sense. I especially like the analogy he makes (later in the article) to Europeans dealing with Native Americans.

I hope first contact wouldn't go that way, but if the aliens are anything like us, we're probably screwed.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Technology does seem to progress in a certain order. I imagine that around the Universe that there is life far less capable than we are, but also that which is far superior.

The good news is that in an infinite universe we haven't been slaughtered quite yet. I suppose we should be thankful.

Posted: Apr 26 2010 03:05 pm

Yeah, it's defintely possible, but that assumes any extraterrestials will be looking for and will consume the same resources we have on Earth.

I prefer to be optimistic and think about how it was in Star Trek. Aliens won't bother with us until we develop faster than light travel because we'll be too primitive to bother with.

Posted: Apr 26 2010 03:07 pm

I think Hawking has been watching V.

Posted: Apr 26 2010 03:27 pm

Aliens give tours of our planet, we're the perfect example of what not to do.

Posted: Apr 26 2010 03:50 pm

Aliens are kindhearted and will give us world peace and perfect health. You can read all about it in "To Serve Man". I imagine that's what the book's about, anyway.

Posted: Apr 26 2010 04:59 pm

I always kind of figured that if an alien race really wanted to exterminate us and take our resources, it wouldn't be anything like War of the Worlds or Independence Day. Given that they obviously have far superior space travel technology, they probably also have far superior killing technology. They could probably hit a big red button on their Death Star-esque ship's dashboard that just instantly terminates all sentient life on the planet, leaving the resources intact.

Joined: Oct 01 2009 Posts: 5316

I know that time and space are limitless, but you have to have the right settings for intelligent life to exist properly. Do I think life outside of Earth exists in the Universe? Yes. Do I believe that it is on par or superior to human intellect? No, I do not. Granted, intelligent life could have existed or might exist at some point, and. I know this is all elementary thinking but human civilization is only an extremely small fraction of time so who knows how much we "missed out on". I really hope that one day we can prove that aliens don't exist, just to make Indiana Jones 4 look like an even bigger piece of shit.

While we're on the subject of aliens, one thing has always bothered me. Most people who come up with concepts of what aliens look like, suck at it. Why is it that it's so impossible to come up with something that is so unlike us? Or do we want aliens to be similar to us? If evolution were to be true, it would be quite ironic for 2 different species on 2 different planets to evolve to the same requirements in order to become intelligent beings.

Posted: Apr 26 2010 05:48 pm

Doddsino wrote:

Do I think life outside of Earth exists in the Universe? Yes. Do I believe that it is on par or superior to human intellect? No, I do not.

Why not? Since there are nearly endless possibilities of life exisiting elsewhere in the Universe, it seems kind of self-centered to think that we are the ultimate intelligent life in the Universe and that nothing has evolved past humans. Shit, we're barely evolved!

It would be a statistical miracle if humans are the apex of intelligent life in the Universe. Then again, what the hell do I know? Nobody does.

Joined: Oct 01 2009 Posts: 5316

Like I said, it takes a lot for intellectual life to get where it's at. Strictly as far as evolution goes, human life has lucked out on more than several occasions, there was a period 20,000 years ago I believe (sorry I don't have the specific timeframe as I can't remember) where about 3/4 of all humans on the planet died off, now take into consideration if that didn't occur, where would we be now? Or if the disease/global disaster wiped even more of us out, would we be as civilized as we are now? Evolution is a gamble, not even superior life can overcome some obstacles. Considering that I believe the Universe to be ageless, then superior life could have existed at one point, but it's key to remember that life has to get to that point, surviving competition, disease and the environment, all the while having the perfect setting to get to that point, I don't consider it self centered to believe that we're the best.

I'm not a scholar on the notion by any means, so my means of explaining things might be a bit rough.

Posted: Apr 26 2010 06:46 pm

^No, you're explaining your theory well. I understand what you're saying. And I don't mean you're self-centered. I just think if you step back and really think about how big the Universe is and how much life is probably out there (you're right, things have to be just right for life to exist...but there are countless chances when the Universe is this large), it would be amazing if we truly were the precipice of intelligent life. I just think there's too much of a chance that we AREN'T the most evolved species in the Universe.

Posted: Apr 26 2010 07:15 pm

Klimbatize wrote:

Doddsino wrote:

Do I think life outside of Earth exists in the Universe? Yes. Do I believe that it is on par or superior to human intellect? No, I do not.

Why not? Since there are nearly endless possibilities of life exisiting elsewhere in the Universe, it seems kind of self-centered to think that we are the ultimate intelligent life in the Universe and that nothing has evolved past humans. Shit, we're barely evolved!

It would be a statistical miracle if humans are the apex of intelligent life in the Universe. Then again, what the hell do I know? Nobody does.

dodds, has clearly never seen stargate.

Joined: Oct 19 2009 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1479

Doddsino wrote:

While we're on the subject of aliens, one thing has always bothered me. Most people who come up with concepts of what aliens look like, suck at it. Why is it that it's so impossible to come up with something that is so unlike us? Or do we want aliens to be similar to us? If evolution were to be true, it would be quite ironic for 2 different species on 2 different planets to evolve to the same requirements in order to become intelligent beings.

The theory of convergent evolution says that this is not entirely true. Sharks and dolphins are very distantly related to each other, but they look pretty much the same because their body shape is best suited for swimming through the water really fast. It's not really that outlandish to think that if an alien species evolved to fulfill a similiar ecological niche as humans that they would have a similar form.

Joined: Oct 01 2009 Posts: 5316

Didn't dolphins and other aquatic mammals evolve from some sort of sea rat? I remember seeing something a while back.

And I still don't really buy that only because sharks and dolphins live in the same environment. To have the exact same living conditions as Earth and evolve along the same lines is almost impossible. Plausible, but not very likely.

Posted: Apr 27 2010 07:06 am

Reagan opined on several occasions that an alien threat would be the only way to achieve world peace, because it force us all to think of ourselves as humans and not as Americans, Russians, Italians, etc.

Posted: Apr 27 2010 10:23 am

^So did Ozymandias.

Joined: Oct 19 2009 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1479

Doddsino wrote:

Didn't dolphins and other aquatic mammals evolve from some sort of sea rat? I remember seeing something a while back.

And I still don't really buy that only because sharks and dolphins live in the same environment. To have the exact same living conditions as Earth and evolve along the same lines is almost impossible. Plausible, but not very likely.

I get what you're saying, but convergent evolution is very common. In addition to sharks and dolphins, you can add in icthyosaurs, ancient marine reptiles with the same body shape as whales and fish. You can also compare the convergent evolution of marsupials and placental mammals, and the structure of cognitive intelligence between humans and octopi. I realize that alien life could be unimaginably different than our own, but I'm trying to get across why it wouldn't be completely out of left-field for intelligent aliens to be similar to humanity. If the aliens are highly intelligent superpredators with advanced communication skills that deal with environmental pressures by changing the environment itself, then it is fairly reasonable to assume that the aliens needed the same skills that humans did to fulfill this niche, and that the body shape and mental structure of humans are the best for the job.

I don't know about the sea rats.

Joined: Oct 01 2009 Posts: 5316

LeshLush wrote:

I don't know about the sea rats.

It's actually called a "Mesonychia" and it's largely responsible for hooved or aquatic mammals.

Posted: Apr 27 2010 11:17 pm

Doddsino wrote:

While we're on the subject of aliens, one thing has always bothered me. Most people who come up with concepts of what aliens look like, suck at it. Why is it that it's so impossible to come up with something that is so unlike us? Or do we want aliens to be similar to us? If evolution were to be true, it would be quite ironic for 2 different species on 2 different planets to evolve to the same requirements in order to become intelligent beings.

From a non-scientific approach, I think in fiction writers tend to depict aliens to have more humanoid qualities because it makes it easier for people to "identify" with them, although like Lesh said, if they live in a similar environment then chances are they'll have a similar appearance.

Joined: Oct 01 2009 Posts: 5316

I always thought it would be cool if these creators made aliens more like jellyfish or something. Simple, yet dangerous and non-emoting.

Posted: Apr 27 2010 11:53 pm

^ God, I remember this one short story...I can't remember what it was called or who it was by, but it was from the 70s, and it was in one of those "best sci-fi collections of [year]" books.

It was about an astronaut exploring Jupiter via space-capsule hot air balloon (drifting through the cloud layers and all that.) He discovers, among other things, giant floating jellyfish-like creatures that live in the clouds. One of my favorite stories I've ever read...I wish I could find it again.

Posted: Apr 27 2010 11:57 pm

^sounds like a great story... especially considering that you cant remember title or author

lol Razz

Posted: Apr 28 2010 12:22 am

"Cities in Flight" by James Blish was a group of books, and one of the stories was about jellyfish living Jupiter's atmosphere. Does that ring a bell, SH? I don't think they were written in the 70s though. Probably 50s or 60s.

Joined: Oct 12 2007 Posts: 821

Doddsino wrote:

It's actually called a "Mesonychia" and it's largely responsible for hooved or aquatic mammals.

Sharks aren't mammals, they are fish. Dolphins, which did evolve from the Mesonychiad, have the shame general shape as Sharks, which is what I think Lesh was saying.

Anyways, I think that more likely than not there is life in space we don't know about, but I am not ultra excited about finding it.

Posted: Apr 28 2010 01:20 am

Sorry Klimb, that's not it. Sad

I'm pretty sure the one I read IS from the 70s, and it was a very short story, not a novel or novella. I do love Blish though, and I think you've inspired me to give those books another read.

username wrote:

^sounds like a great story... especially considering that you cant remember title or author

lol Razz

I know it sounds funny, but yeah. I read it in between classes in my JC library like seven years ago. I was never able to find it again after that, but its always stuck with me.

Another short story from the same collection I remember strongly but just can't find again involves a guy who invents time travel...I've mentioned it before on the forums. He finds he can go as far forward in time as he wants, but going back requires an impossible amount of energy. So he keeps going forward, sees civilizations and races rise and fall, gets in trouble, has to escape evil aliens...all the while trying to get home. Its absolutely epic. (...Attempted spoiler warning, although since I can't give the title its probably negligible.) Eventually the entire world dies (due to the sun's expansion or some kind of natural cause I think), so he does the only thing he can do...throws himself and the machine eons and eons into the future. Eventually one way or another (I remember it being well-explained enough in the book to work well) he ends up discovering that time loops back in on itself when you bend it so much, and he ends up back at the moment before he left. Its a beautiful, exciting, and quite moving story.

God I wish my memory wasn't such a sieve...or that I had at least written down the title of the book that had those stories in it. Sad