Persnally I think we should reduce the whole middle east to rubble...Israel included... Kind of a if you can't play nice you can't play at all sort of thing.
Then Nuke sweeden to show the rest of the world what we do to countries we like.,
Persnally I think we should reduce the whole middle east to rubble...Israel included... Kind of a if you can't play nice you can't play at all sort of thing.
Then Nuke sweeden to show the rest of the world what we do to countries we like.,
At least that's how it'd be if I was incharge.
Thank monkeyfuck you aren't.
Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 5228
Posted:
Apr 08 2010 02:36 am
Ash Burton wrote:
Pandajuice wrote:
Fucking liberals cried about waterboarding and now this. Let the CIA do its fucking job so that we don't have to be afraid of getting on a plane anymore.
In talking to friends from Gitmo, waterboarding is just fucking stupid. It gives us false information because they say anything to stop the shit. It wasn't just liberals who were against it, it was John McCain, Huckabee, Sen Webb, Jessie The Body and many others. We created the Geneva convention to protect us, if we don't follow it and lead the way how can we force other countries to follow suite?
Did you just use McCain as an example of NOT a liberal?
The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus
JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
Posts: 6544
Posted:
Apr 08 2010 02:42 am
Dr. Jeebus wrote:
Ash Burton wrote:
Pandajuice wrote:
Fucking liberals cried about waterboarding and now this. Let the CIA do its fucking job so that we don't have to be afraid of getting on a plane anymore.
In talking to friends from Gitmo, waterboarding is just fucking stupid. It gives us false information because they say anything to stop the shit. It wasn't just liberals who were against it, it was John McCain, Huckabee, Sen Webb, Jessie The Body and many others. We created the Geneva convention to protect us, if we don't follow it and lead the way how can we force other countries to follow suite?
Did you just use McCain as an example of NOT a liberal?
I think the main question is how are we gonna let countries follow "suite". Just fucking with you, Ash .
Pandajuice
Title: The Power of Grayskull
Joined: Oct 30 2008
Location: US and UK
Posts: 2649
Posted:
Apr 08 2010 05:39 am
Syd Lexia wrote:
Should we blow Osama Bin Laden to kingdom come the second we see him, if assassination risks the lives of less American soldiers than capture? Absolutely. But this guy is a nobody. Is assassination really necessary?
Is he a terrorist? Then yes, it is necessary. They are sub human and don't deserve basic human rights, let alone due process. The world will not weep if there is one less of them plotting against the lives of innocent people.
As for torture, if it didn't work at least sometimes, we'd have stopped using it 600 years ago. Yet somehow it remains a widely used interrogation technique and I don't think that's because people are sick and enjoy doing it.
UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
Posts: 7565
Posted:
Apr 08 2010 09:31 am
Pandajuice wrote:
They are sub human and don't deserve basic human rights
Fucking liberals cried about waterboarding and now this. Let the CIA do its fucking job so that we don't have to be afraid of getting on a plane anymore.
In talking to friends from Gitmo, waterboarding is just fucking stupid. It gives us false information because they say anything to stop the shit. It wasn't just liberals who were against it, it was John McCain, Huckabee, Sen Webb, Jessie The Body and many others. We created the Geneva convention to protect us, if we don't follow it and lead the way how can we force other countries to follow suite?
Did you just use McCain as an example of NOT a liberal?
I think the main question is how are we gonna let countries follow "suite". Just fucking with you, Ash .
Lol, Hey I won the Marine Corps spelling Bee 3 years in a row!
joshwoodzy wrote:
Ash is probably just home humping his SNES collection.
username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16136
Posted:
Apr 08 2010 10:46 am
Ash Burton wrote:
joshwoodzy wrote:
Dr. Jeebus wrote:
Ash Burton wrote:
Pandajuice wrote:
Fucking liberals cried about waterboarding and now this. Let the CIA do its fucking job so that we don't have to be afraid of getting on a plane anymore.
In talking to friends from Gitmo, waterboarding is just fucking stupid. It gives us false information because they say anything to stop the shit. It wasn't just liberals who were against it, it was John McCain, Huckabee, Sen Webb, Jessie The Body and many others. We created the Geneva convention to protect us, if we don't follow it and lead the way how can we force other countries to follow suite?
Did you just use McCain as an example of NOT a liberal?
I think the main question is how are we gonna let countries follow "suite". Just fucking with you, Ash .
Lol, Hey I won the Marine Corps spelling Bee 3 years in a row!
not sure what that says about the marines
Klimbatize wrote:
I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load
Ash Burton
Title: AshRaiser
Joined: Nov 10 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1044
Posted:
Apr 08 2010 10:49 am
UsaSatsui wrote:
Pandajuice wrote:
They are sub human and don't deserve basic human rights
This is veeeeeeeeeery dangerous thinking.
This. With this kind of thinking you can then take the other sides view, if an Iraqi captures a Marine and views him as sub-human then that Marine deserves no human rights. You can't base actions on perspective, it's all relative. The Geneva convention is set in place to protect all combatants, not just ours.
joshwoodzy wrote:
Ash is probably just home humping his SNES collection.
SoldierHawk
Moderator
Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 6113
Posted:
Apr 08 2010 11:24 am
Ash Burton wrote:
UsaSatsui wrote:
Pandajuice wrote:
They are sub human and don't deserve basic human rights
This is veeeeeeeeeery dangerous thinking.
This. With this kind of thinking you can then take the other sides view, if an Iraqi captures a Marine and views him as sub-human then that Marine deserves no human rights. You can't base actions on perspective, it's all relative. The Geneva convention is set in place to protect all combatants, not just ours.
A thousand times this. Granted, extending human rights to our prisoners won't stop an immoral enemy form torturing one of our captives because they feel like it, but it DOES prevent them from claiming justification or moral high ground. Which IS important.
William Shakespeare wrote:
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.
Pandajuice
Title: The Power of Grayskull
Joined: Oct 30 2008
Location: US and UK
Posts: 2649
Posted:
Apr 08 2010 11:44 am
Ash Burton wrote:
This. With this kind of thinking you can then take the other sides view, if an Iraqi captures a Marine and views him as sub-human then that Marine deserves no human rights. You can't base actions on perspective, it's all relative. The Geneva convention is set in place to protect all combatants, not just ours.
Um, that's exactly what Iraqis, Afghans, and other terrorists do when they capture a marine. Somalis did it when they captured marines in Mogadishu. Do you think they give a damn about the Geneva convention when their life's ambition is to kill themselves along with as many innocent people as possible? Did the executed marines get to enjoy a phone call home and a fair trial? Please.
The geneva convention doesn't stop them from claiming moral high ground either considering that's what their entire jihad against the west is based upon. They see themselves as higher beings sent by Allah to destroy the infidels who lay waste to the purity of the world. Terrorists don't do what they do for fun, you know. They have many justifications based on a perceived moral high ground.
My thinking is if you think it's a good idea to fly a plane loaded with innocent people into a building, then you're a fucking animal and should be treated as such. Simple as that. It's shocking how many people want to give these savages the same rights that a peaceful, tax paying American citizen enjoys. Just wait until it's one of your relatives that gets blown up, then tell me again how much you dislike torture and how much the killers deserve due process.
Really? It's crazy and dangerous to think of them as sub human? They aren't fucking equal to me, I can tell you that much.
Klimbatize
2010 NES Champ
Title: 2011 Picnic/Death Champ
Joined: Mar 15 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 5000
Posted:
Apr 08 2010 12:34 pm
Dr. Jeebus wrote:
Did you just use McCain as an example of NOT a liberal?
Yes, if someone is even remotely to the left on any issue then they are liberal. Only morons or people dilberately acting like morons to prove a lame point would label McCain a liberal.
Pandajuice wrote:
Ash Burton wrote:
This. With this kind of thinking you can then take the other sides view, if an Iraqi captures a Marine and views him as sub-human then that Marine deserves no human rights. You can't base actions on perspective, it's all relative. The Geneva convention is set in place to protect all combatants, not just ours.
Um, that's exactly what Iraqis, Afghans, and other terrorists do when they capture a marine. Somalis did it when they captured marines in Mogadishu. Do you think they give a damn about the Geneva convention when their life's ambition is to kill themselves along with as many innocent people as possible? Did the executed marines get to enjoy a phone call home and a fair trial? Please.
The geneva convention doesn't stop them from claiming moral high ground either considering that's what their entire jihad against the west is based upon. They see themselves as higher beings sent by Allah to destroy the infidels who lay waste to the purity of the world. Terrorists don't do what they do for fun, you know. They have many justifications based on a perceived moral high ground.
My thinking is if you think it's a good idea to fly a plane loaded with innocent people into a building, then you're a fucking animal and should be treated as such. Simple as that. It's shocking how many people want to give these savages the same rights that a peaceful, tax paying American citizen enjoys. Just wait until it's one of your relatives that gets blown up, then tell me again how much you dislike torture and how much the killers deserve due process.
Really? It's crazy and dangerous to think of them as sub human? They aren't fucking equal to me, I can tell you that much.
You are having a problem with ethnocentrism here. By your logic, if we view them as animals we can treat them as such. So you know, they view us as animals for things such as our abortion rights, gay rights, and other standard practices in the Western World. So they are justified in torturing us?
Do you realize that when we torture them, we are just proving them right? That we are, indeed, evil people? You should look into the success rate of interrogators that DON'T torture. We have retrieved tons of actionable intelligences simply from treating these people like...people. Torture does not work, and it has severely compromised our American ideals. The U.S. should be the good guys, but when we trample human rights it sends a message to these terrorists (and unfortunately to our allies) that we really are what they think we are.
We should follow our values and human rights beliefs all the time...not just when it's with people we like.
Whats the difference between assasination and airstrikes at locations where the target is thought to be? I say if you see the target and he is a threat to the country take them out Predator style, meaning if they are armed...BANG!...If they aren't..."Come with me if you want to live."
I don't want anyone of our military compromising their safety to bring a terrorist to "Justice", and since we are in their country shouldn't we be following their rules?
TheRoboSleuth
Title: Sleuth Mark IV
Joined: Aug 08 2006
Location: The Gritty Future
Posts: 2739
Posted:
Apr 08 2010 09:15 pm
I think that as an enemy combatant, any situation where you could kill him and could not feasably capture him would be considered fair game as standard. That was my impression.
The president, as a show of good faith and as a sign of real respect for the constitution and the dignity of humanity, should wave any rights he has to call a no questions kill order on a citizen. I would even do it offhandedly, as if to say, "I never really considered this an option".
Ash Burton
Title: AshRaiser
Joined: Nov 10 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1044
Posted:
Apr 09 2010 05:52 pm
Pandajuice wrote:
Ash Burton wrote:
This. With this kind of thinking you can then take the other sides view, if an Iraqi captures a Marine and views him as sub-human then that Marine deserves no human rights. You can't base actions on perspective, it's all relative. The Geneva convention is set in place to protect all combatants, not just ours.
Um, that's exactly what Iraqis, Afghans, and other terrorists do when they capture a marine. Somalis did it when they captured marines in Mogadishu. Do you think they give a damn about the Geneva convention when their life's ambition is to kill themselves along with as many innocent people as possible? Did the executed marines get to enjoy a phone call home and a fair trial? Please.
The geneva convention doesn't stop them from claiming moral high ground either considering that's what their entire jihad against the west is based upon. They see themselves as higher beings sent by Allah to destroy the infidels who lay waste to the purity of the world. Terrorists don't do what they do for fun, you know. They have many justifications based on a perceived moral high ground.
My thinking is if you think it's a good idea to fly a plane loaded with innocent people into a building, then you're a fucking animal and should be treated as such. Simple as that. It's shocking how many people want to give these savages the same rights that a peaceful, tax paying American citizen enjoys. Just wait until it's one of your relatives that gets blown up, then tell me again how much you dislike torture and how much the killers deserve due process.
Really? It's crazy and dangerous to think of them as sub human? They aren't fucking equal to me, I can tell you that much.
Dude do your research, Somalis NEVER EVER touched a Marine. They captured Army Rangers, and only after the Marines were ordered out of country. I have been to Somalia, and they refer to us as devils in black boots and have some crazy ideas as to just how insane Marines are.
What I am saying is that who is it who decides you are an evil person not deserving of human rights? Is it you? Or is it someone else? Your thoughts sound like someone who has never undergone torture or been held without rights. Mistakes are made and if we allow our government to run recklessly without restraints than we are no better than those we fight.
joshwoodzy wrote:
Ash is probably just home humping his SNES collection.
username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16136
Posted:
Apr 09 2010 06:42 pm
Ash Burton wrote:
What I am saying is that who is it who decides you are an evil person not deserving of human rights? Is it you? Or is it someone else? Your thoughts sound like someone who has never undergone torture or been held without rights. Mistakes are made and if we allow our government to run recklessly without restraints than we are no better than those we fight.
.
Only morons or people dilberately acting like morons to prove a lame point would label McCain a liberal.
