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Joined: Feb 16 2008 Posts: 832

I have a lot of opinions. Dozens of them, except every time I try to bring mine out onto the field, I look like an absolute moron. It's like I can't put it in words, or the second I do, someone who has a bigger vocabulary or has read a bunch of old existential related writings and crap does it better then I can and makes me also look like a moron.

I guess this is a cry for help, maybe? I'd like to learn how to make my opinions more poignant and deliver counter arguments to other people.

Posted: Mar 31 2010 06:38 pm

lol my buddy has the exact same issue. he knows what he wants to say but is not eloquent at all. so he ends up stuttering and sounding very... inarticulate.

you can try taking a toastmasters class or even a debate class. that might help some. other than that, i dont know what else to recommend

Posted: Mar 31 2010 07:06 pm

I think it depends on what your opinions are. No offense, but maybe you really are just a moron with dumb opinions.

If that's not the case, then who gives a crap if you can articulate your argument. Most people who argue opinion all the time are blowhards that nobody wants to hang around with anyway.

2010 SLF Tag Champ Joined: Jun 07 2006 Posts: 12294

stop talking. it's easier.

Posted: Mar 31 2010 07:12 pm

Yeah I would just say speak in a way that suits you, you do not have to speak in a snob nosed way to seem smart or get a point across, I mean it's your opinion, its not a courtroom where you have to present your case so my two cents would be just speak your mind and don't worry about it so much.

Posted: Mar 31 2010 08:01 pm

Username is the only one to give decent advice in this thread so far, so take his advice. Also, get angry at the person you're discussing with. Not trying to incite violence, but you can't be nervous and angry at the same time, so removing the nervousness should make you able to get your point across more clearly. If that stuff doesn't work, I'd actually work on your vocabulary so you can better articulate your thoughts.

Posted: Mar 31 2010 08:13 pm

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

Username is the only one to give decent advice in this thread so far, so take his advice. Also, get angry at the person you're discussing with. Not trying to incite violence, but you can't be nervous and angry at the same time, so removing the nervousness should make you able to get your point across more clearly. If that stuff doesn't work, I'd actually work on your vocabulary so you can better articulate your thoughts.

I think if someone starts getting angry in an argument it comes off as frustration. In that case, it just appears that the guy getting angry doesn't know how to defend his opinion because he either hasn't thought it through enough (and therefore likely wrong) or is just kind of stupid. I wouldn't suggest getting angry...that will likely stop the debate and you'll be seen as the guy who can't handle a discussion without getting pissed.

One trick is to practice conversations with yourself out loud, not just in your head. While you're alone (taking a shower, getting dressed, working out), have a debate with yourself and try to answer as if someone is really listening--in other words speak as clearly and articulately as you can. This might sound silly, but nothing beats practice when trying to get better at a skill.

A good thing to do while in actual conversations is just take a few extra seconds to get your point more clear in your head before you start talking. It's also important to not get involved in a discussion that you really don't know much about. There's no rule that says you have to have an opinion about everything.

Posted: Mar 31 2010 08:50 pm

If anything big words will piss off the other person. It really irks the shit out of me when someone uses a bigger word then the situation calls for just to use it. It's almost like they are trying to hard to look educated, when really most of the time its someone who learned a word and is waiting for the perfect time to use it to sound sophisticated.

There are numerous articles out there that say to avoid big words because either A. the audience won't understand, B. you come off as pompous, or C. Something else I don't remember. You don't have to sound smart to speak smart. Basically don't look up words just to use them but if you are having problems coming up with words to describe something you may want to hit the Online Thesaurus.

Posted: Mar 31 2010 09:13 pm

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

Username is the only one to give decent advice in this thread so far, so take his advice. Also, get angry at the person you're discussing with. Not trying to incite violence, but you can't be nervous and angry at the same time, so removing the nervousness should make you able to get your point across more clearly. If that stuff doesn't work, I'd actually work on your vocabulary so you can better articulate your thoughts.

That is hilarious, Jeebus you must be a Republican and it is beyond me why you don't have your own radio show in the mornings yet. Working on the vocab may help, but why not research what you would like to argue? Or maybe listen to others debate like say a Jim Webb. Instead of anger, try to be stern and confident. If you are wrong, say you were wrong. Most of the time though, arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics, even if you win your still retarded.

Edited to prevent pissing Jeebus off. I'm a big fan of his writing if not his politics.

Posted: Mar 31 2010 09:17 pm

*sits back to watch things unfold*

Posted: Mar 31 2010 09:28 pm

last resort: become friends with Matt Damon, he's wicked smart.

Posted: Mar 31 2010 09:38 pm

Ash Burton wrote:

Most of the time though, arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics, even if you win your still retarded.

Or for those who prefer visuals:

Posted: Mar 31 2010 10:52 pm

Ash Burton wrote:

Working on the vocab may help, but why not research what you would like to argue?

this is probably the most sound advice. just make sure you understand the material well, and be patient w/the other person. allow them to finish their point and then just present your point. dont cut them off when they are talking, cause that wont help you. allow them to finish, so they can allow you to finish.

Posted: Apr 01 2010 12:04 am

Yeah do your research, many a time I've come up looking foolish by going off of secondhand information and rumor.

2010 SLF Tag Champ Joined: Jun 07 2006 Posts: 12294

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

get angry at the person you're discussing with. Not trying to incite violence, but you can't be nervous and angry at the same time, so removing the nervousness should make you able to get your point across more clearly.

this sounds like the worst idea ever.

Posted: Apr 01 2010 01:01 am

Imagine who ever you conversing with is in their underwear, and when you get a chance to, inform them of it. it should disconcert them enough to the point where you'll be able to make your point without using big fancy words or yelling.

Posted: Apr 01 2010 06:25 am

FNJ wrote:

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

get angry at the person you're discussing with. Not trying to incite violence, but you can't be nervous and angry at the same time, so removing the nervousness should make you able to get your point across more clearly.

this sounds like the worst idea ever.

Agreed. When you get angry, most people you're arguing with will either just shut down completely, or make the arguement personal, neither of which are very satisfying at the end of the day.

My advice is to take an arguementation or debate course in college as there's a lot of good advice in there about constructing your arguement, and progressing through your points in a natural way, all while debating your opponent's points with facts. Also, as others have said, it helps to be as knowledgable on the subject as possible so you actually know what you're saying and don't get backed into a corner. A comedy improv class would help you think on your feet better as well which is another valuable skill when it comes to argumentation.

Additionally, don't be afraid to concede a point that makes sense and is "undebatable". If you're quick enough, you can even use a small victory by your opponent to turn the tables and use it against him. And once you get them debating their own points, you've won.

Debate is all about being able to dance around your opponent's words and points while sticking as many holes in each one as possible and staying on top of the arguement and in control.

2010 SLF Tag Champ Joined: Jun 07 2006 Posts: 12294

Ash Burton wrote:

last resort: become friends with Matt Damon, he's wicked smart.

Joined: May 22 2008 Location: Goshen, VA Posts: 6544

Yeah the minute you start getting angry and spouting frustrated opinions gathered in a storm of pissed off fury, you start looking like a douche and everyone stops taking you seriously and makes fun of you forever.

Posted: Apr 01 2010 12:41 pm

When in doubt, photoshop his picture. (applies only to e-arguments)

Joined: Mar 13 2009 Location: Arlington Posts: 467

Read to your self out loud. This will help with vocab and your enunciating.

Joined: Oct 01 2009 Posts: 5316

When you write something, try to just make it sound like you're talking.

Believe me, I had this problem as well. And this forum, there are a few people who are probably more eloquent than I am. However in the real world, I'm almost unbeatable as far as debates go, which should tell you a lot about the people around you. And that's not really including my friends, as much as it's including co-workers or whoever I'm dating.

Posted: Apr 01 2010 04:10 pm

joshwoodzy wrote:

Yeah the minute you start getting angry and spouting frustrated opinions gathered in a storm of pissed off fury, you start looking like a douche and everyone stops taking you seriously and makes fun of you forever.

This. Getting mad leads to frustration and no one sounds good when they sound frustrated.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Douche McCallister wrote:

If anything big words will piss off the other person. It really irks the shit out of me when someone uses a bigger word then the situation calls for just to use it. It's almost like they are trying to hard to look educated, when really most of the time its someone who learned a word and is waiting for the perfect time to use it to sound sophisticated.

There are numerous articles out there that say to avoid big words because either A. the audience won't understand, B. you come off as pompous, or C. Something else I don't remember. You don't have to sound smart to speak smart. Basically don't look up words just to use them but if you are having problems coming up with words to describe something you may want to hit the Online Thesaurus.

I just saw this quote the other day, how relevant:
"Any word you have to hunt for in a thesaurus is the wrong word. There are no exceptions to this rule." - Stephen King

Kojjiro! wrote:

I have a lot of opinions. Dozens of them, except every time I try to bring mine out onto the field, I look like an absolute moron. It's like I can't put it in words, or the second I do, someone who has a bigger vocabulary or has read a bunch of old existential related writings and crap does it better then I can and makes me also look like a moron.

I guess this is a cry for help, maybe? I'd like to learn how to make my opinions more poignant and deliver counter arguments to other people.

We all get stymied once in a while, but if you feel like it is a regular thing, the best advice I can give you is to write how you feel, then erase what you wrote and write it again. Often times the second time you write something out it will be better organized and presented because the thoughts are more clear in your own mind.

As for the emotion that will help you write, I would suggest that you take a deep breath and remember who you are writing to. Sydlexia.com is a medium sized online community of repeat visitors. Call the relationship what you want, but the regulars here are what I consider "online friends". If you think about how you would want your friends to read your messages, then you might consider writing to us the same way. I think that if you remember that this is a community and that you are a welcome member of it, then the tone of your writing will better adjust to the audience.

I appreciate your motivation to achieve self improvement and wish you success with it.