SydLexia.com - The Forums :: View topic

Posted: Mar 26 2010 06:51 pm

Quote:

mother trades daughter for drugs

SAGINAW, Mich. (AP) - Police in Michigan say a 45-year-old woman with a cocaine habit let a 67-year-old man have sex with a 10-year-old girl she was caring for in exchange for the drug.
Angela A. Blackwell of Saginaw Township is charged with first-degree criminal sexual conduct and pandering.

She remained in jail Wednesday pending a preliminary hearing set for March 30. Her lawyer did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment.

Police are searching for Johnnie L. Griffin on first- and second-degree criminal sexual conduct and firearms charges.

If convicted, the pair could be sentenced to at least 25 years in prison.

Detective Sgt. Joseph Dutoi tells The Saginaw News that Griffin had sex with the girl between September and February, while she was in Blackwell's care.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9EL11701&show_article=1

Posted: Mar 26 2010 07:16 pm

That is messed up. I say people should need a license to care for children so we can weed out monsters like this.

Posted: Mar 26 2010 07:22 pm

How is this an example against legalizing drugs? They're illegal now and she still did this. By the way, people do stuff as bad as this for alcohol, gambling, and other vices, too. Drugs being legal or not has nothing to do with it. Having money for the drugs is what made the difference here.

Posted: Mar 26 2010 07:52 pm

Klimbatize wrote:

How is this an example against legalizing drugs? They're illegal now and she still did this. By the way, people do stuff as bad as this for alcohol, gambling, and other vices, too. Drugs being legal or not has nothing to do with it. Having money for the drugs is what made the difference here.

This is exactly what I was about to say. Whether drugs are legal or illegal, people will still be retarded.

I think the point that was trying to be made here is that if drugs are legal, more people will have a chance to become this badly addicted to them.

Joined: May 22 2008 Location: Goshen, VA Posts: 6544

I'm pretty positive cocaine will never again be legalized in the US, because when it was legal people thought it was a miracle drug. But now people aren't fucking retarded.

This really isn't really a case against legalizing drugs because there has never been a debate on legalizing cocaine in this country again.

I mean, except by crackheads. I bet those debates were entertaining.

Posted: Mar 26 2010 07:59 pm

I wouldn't have a problem with marijuana being legalized. I just don't think it's a dangerous enough drug to warrant all the time and money we spend trying to eliminate it.

Coke and heroine are garbage, though. They'll never be legalized.

Posted: Mar 26 2010 08:11 pm

Ice2SeeYou wrote:

I wouldn't have a problem with marijuana being legalized. I just don't think it's a dangerous enough drug to warrant all the time and money we spend trying to eliminate it.

Coke and heroine are garbage, though. They'll never be legalized.

Well said. This is pretty much where I stand, too.

Posted: Mar 26 2010 08:16 pm

( This is going to mostly focus on the marijuana side of legalization)

In the scheme of things if you were going to rate marijuana on a danger scale it would fall far below alcohol and tobacco and I would even say anti depression medications. There is a severe lack of common sense in this country where marijuana is compared to cocaine, to me at least that is like comparing sugar to cigarettes. This world is full of fucked in the head people who do all kinds of things for various reasons..for example how many people do you thing have gotten killed over cigarettes, not health wise but " hey I am going to rob that guy or store for a fix" type of reasons, Hypocrisy reigns and it is unfortunate that people care more about saving their political asses, then seeing reality and the problems this prohibition in particular is causing ( Mexico / US crime, etc) , If the drug itself cannot kill you with overdose such as alcohol, there is no reason for it not to be legal and taxed, especially when there is so much "legal" stuff out there that is far far worse. Allow law enforcement to focus on the things that really need to be policed and redirect efforts that are wasted on marijuana restriction. The policies of this are so antiquated that it would be laughable if the issue wasn't such an important one.

Joined: May 22 2008 Location: Goshen, VA Posts: 6544

Berserk007 wrote:

( This is going to mostly focus on the marijuana side of legalization)

In the scheme of things if you were going to rate marijuana on a danger scale it would fall far below alcohol and tobacco and I would even say anti depression medications. There is a severe lack of common sense in this country where marijuana is compared to cocaine, to me at least that is like comparing sugar to cigarettes. This world is full of fucked in the head people who do all kinds of things for various reasons..for example how many people do you thing have gotten killed over cigarettes, not health wise but " hey I am going to rob that guy or store for a fix" type of reasons, Hypocrisy reigns and it is unfortunate that people care more about saving their political asses, then seeing reality and the problems this prohibition in particular is causing ( Mexico / US crime, etc) , If the drug itself cannot kill you with overdose such as alcohol, there is no reason for it not to be legal and taxed, especially when there is so much "legal" stuff out there that is far far worse. Allow law enforcement to focus on the things that really need to be policed and redirect efforts that are wasted on marijuana restriction. The policies of this are so antiquated that it would be laughable if the issue wasn't such an important one.

Pretty much this. It blows my mind that something that literally cannot kill you is illegal, but something ridiculously addictive and lethal is perfectly legal and even encouraged. I don't smoke pot anymore, but my views haven't changed that it's just fucking weed. It makes you lazy and it makes you dumb, and it makes Chinese food taste really, really, really, really good.

Posted: Mar 26 2010 08:27 pm

The title is an absolute and utter failure. Its irrelevant and its going to start a big fucking fight and should be changed immediately, but until then anyone that feels that this is the perfect soapbox for their personal politics on drug legalization should think better and shut up.

As per the OP, that is really messed up. Woman should go to jail for emotional damage incurred, and the dude should go to jail for being a sick fuck and taking advantage of someones drug addiction.

Posted: Mar 26 2010 09:42 pm

Granted the title really has nothing to do with the information in the post, however the discussion pretty much was going to change to discussion over feelings of legalization. Unless I am unaware of some rule about this type of topic which is very relevant to the times (California legalization vote), speaking for myself I don't appreciate being told to shut up over "Personal Politics" because when it comes down to it, "Personal Politics" is nothing more than a opinion. This was a civil discussion, if I am missing something rule wise, fine I understand, lock the thread or whatever, but don't try to tell someone to shut up over a opinion that was in a legitimate topic albeit a poorly named one. Maybe I am alone in this but I found it to be a very unneeded and heavy handed statement.

Posted: Mar 26 2010 09:58 pm

RobotGumshoe wrote:

The title is an absolute and utter failure. Its irrelevant and its going to start a big fucking fight and should be changed immediately, but until then anyone that feels that this is the perfect soapbox for their personal politics on drug legalization should think better and shut up.

As per the OP, that is really messed up. Woman should go to jail for emotional damage incurred, and the dude should go to jail for being a sick fuck and taking advantage of someones drug addiction.

Well, I was commenting on the title simply because I was drawn to this thead because of it. I would be interested to hear an opinion on this, especially when I don't understand why weed isn't legal and alcohol is. I'm always interested in hearing opposing views. And this is the General Discussions thread and civil political conversations go on in here all the time.

If the discussion were to get malicious, I can understand wanting to shut this down. But nobody had attacked anyone.

For the record, I've never smoked weed, probably never will...but I still don't see why it shouldn't be legal. I'd still love to hear an opinion on this that might change my mind because I'm all ears.

Coke and opiates...whole different ball game. I haven't heard good reasons to legalize those.

So, I guess what I'm saying is even though the conversation is starting to drift off the original article it happens all the time in this forum and nothing said has been inappropriate.

Posted: Mar 27 2010 12:07 am

i guess i should clarify, it wasnt my title. i got it from the story i read on current.com, but if someone is willing to change the title to avoid a flame war or any confusion, go ahead. i dont mind.

Posted: Mar 27 2010 10:04 am

joshwoodzy wrote:

It blows my mind that something that literally cannot kill you is illegal, but something ridiculously addictive and lethal is perfectly legal and even encouraged. I don't smoke pot anymore, but my views haven't changed that it's just fucking weed. It makes you lazy and it makes you dumb, and it makes Chinese food taste really, really, really, really good.

First of all, marijuana has been show to be carcinogenic. In fact, there was a study that found it to be even more carcinogenic overall than cigarettes. But the cancer risk from marijuana is still considerably lower than that from cigarettes, because even the most raging potheads generally smoke significantly less than the average cigarette smoker.

Secondly, longterm marijuana abuse has been shown to have detrimental effects including lethargy, paranoia, attention deficits, and memory loss. Not exactly death, but if you suffer from all four symptoms, you might as well be dead.

Thirdly, arguing that marijuana isn't as bad as alcohol and tobacco isn't an argument for legalization; it's an argument for Prohibition. Tobacco is already on the way out. Within our lifetimes, we will see the cigarette industry destroyed. If not through an outright federal ban, they will be run out of business by lawsuits and by federal and state sin taxes that make them far too expensive for the average consumer.

Posted: Mar 27 2010 10:50 am

Not claiming to speak for all pot smokers, but as an ex pothead I can attest to the lethargy, paranoia, attention deficits, and memory loss for myself at least. That's why I don't screw around with it anymore.

Posted: Mar 27 2010 11:28 am

Ice2SeeYou wrote:

I wouldn't have a problem with marijuana being legalized. I just don't think it's a dangerous enough drug to warrant all the time and money we spend trying to eliminate it.

Coke and heroine are garbage, though. They'll never be legalized.

Ya pretty much this. I think pot should be legal but making Heroin and Coccaine legal and the like legal would be fucking retarted. Alcohol can screw people's live up because they can become dependant on it easier because it's legally available, I wouldn't want to see the mess legal heroin and coke could cause.

As to the pot causing paranoia and lethargy etc. I've certainly noticed the lethargy but the paranoia was only noticeable when I first started to smoke on a regular basis, after the first month or so I didn't have any paranoia that would be contributed to pot. As for memory loss, I don't lose my memory but if I smoke for a whole week I will have trouble putting the weeks evens in order, I'll know what happened but won't always be able to remember exactly when it happened.

The problem with weed is that there are no immediate negative side affects so it feels 100% safe, even after long term use there aren't any really noticeable bad side-effects. At least if you drink to much you're sure as shit going to feel it the next morning so theirs an immediate consequence to drinking but not so much for pot.

Joined: May 22 2008 Location: Goshen, VA Posts: 6544

Syd Lexia wrote:

joshwoodzy wrote:

It blows my mind that something that literally cannot kill you is illegal, but something ridiculously addictive and lethal is perfectly legal and even encouraged. I don't smoke pot anymore, but my views haven't changed that it's just fucking weed. It makes you lazy and it makes you dumb, and it makes Chinese food taste really, really, really, really good.

First of all, marijuana has been show to be carcinogenic. In fact, there was a study that found it to be even more carcinogenic overall than cigarettes. But the cancer risk from marijuana is still considerably lower than that from cigarettes, because even the most raging potheads generally smoke significantly less than the average cigarette smoker.

Secondly, longterm marijuana abuse has been shown to have detrimental effects including lethargy, paranoia, attention deficits, and memory loss. Not exactly death, but if you suffer from all four symptoms, you might as well be dead.

Thirdly, arguing that marijuana isn't as bad as alcohol and tobacco isn't an argument for legalization; it's an argument for Prohibition. Tobacco is already on the way out. Within our lifetimes, we will see the cigarette industry destroyed. If not through an outright federal ban, they will be run out of business by lawsuits and by federal and state sin taxes that make them far too expensive for the average consumer.

My basic point was that if a person smokes weed everyday for 5 years and then quits, it's no biggie and you aren't gonna freak out and have withdrawal. If you drink everyday for 5 years you WILL have awful negative side effects, especially if you quit and go into terrible withdrawal. I never said that it was healthier than cigarettes at all. Than again, I've never known a pot smoker to smoke a pack of 20 joints a day either.

Posted: Mar 27 2010 01:26 pm

joshwoodzy wrote:

My basic point was that if a person smokes weed everyday for 5 years and then quits, it's no biggie and you aren't gonna freak out and have withdrawal. If you drink everyday for 5 years you WILL have awful negative side effects, especially if you quit and go into terrible withdrawal. I never said that it was healthier than cigarettes at all. Than again, I've never known a pot smoker to smoke a pack of 20 joints a day either.

You opened by saying that marijuana literally cannot kill you. It literally can give you cancer. Cancer literally can kill you. That was my basic point.

If you drink every day for five years, you will not necessarily have negative side effects. In pro-marijuana arguments, the guy smoking never seems to smoke more than one joint each day. So, let's give alcohol the same benefit of the doubt. One glass of red wine per day. No negative side effects, and according to some studies, you even get positive ones.

On an unrelated note, I'm sick of the argument that marijuana is better than other drugs because it's "natural". There is nothing natural about taking a plant, crushing it up, burning it, and inhaling the fumes. You ever see animals do that shit? Not unless humans forced them to. Ergo, it's not fucking natural.

Posted: Mar 27 2010 01:35 pm

anything can cause cancer nowadays

i remember an old buddy wrote a persuasive essay on marijuana. but it consisted mostly about changing the type of class it is (class b to class a) or something to that effect. i cant remember exactly (no im not a pothead) but it was a very well done research paper

Joined: May 22 2008 Location: Goshen, VA Posts: 6544

I'm not a pothead, I'm looking at this from the viewpoint of someone who has smoked pot and drank heavily at one point in my life. I was much more functional smoking pot than I was drinking. That's all I meant and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

When I say pot can't literally kill you, I meant that you can't overdose from smoking a couple doobies, but drink enough liquor and you can easily die. Of course I know it's carcinogenic, I'm just saying give a frat guy an ounce of pot and he will fail out of school. Give a frat guy a gallon of liquor on pledge night and you'll be calling the morgue.

I'm also annoyed by the "natural" pot argument as well. If they were living in the middle ages, all they would drink is fucking alcohol because the water was too contaminated by the goddamn plague.

Posted: Mar 27 2010 01:59 pm

Well there is nothing natural about any pill form off medication or 90% of the other things we do in our daily lives however that hasn't stopped us. My main feeling about legalization is the pro's far outweigh the cons and prohibition on "soft drugs" is a waste of time. Education and tax increase on things like cigarettes have definitely reduced smokers however the market will never go away, because if it did we would have another massive smuggling ring from Canada / Mexico kinda like with whiskey during prohibition. Either way with this illegal we are filling up our jails with minor use offenders and enabling a spreading drug war on the border and in Mexico ( the cartels total business profit is around %60 from marijuana).

There are lot's off silly things about our marijuana laws that need to change, for example : Hemp cannot get you high but as you know can be used for a lot of things and is a billion dollar industry in this country, before prohibition we were the worlds number one exporter, now it is illegal to grow it in the United States so we import billions of dollars of it from Canada and Mexico every year when we could be growing it here (creating jobs). I just wish we as a country could get down to a bit more common sense and less fire and brimstone.

Posted: Mar 27 2010 02:10 pm

Syd Lexia wrote:

joshwoodzy wrote:

My basic point was that if a person smokes weed everyday for 5 years and then quits, it's no biggie and you aren't gonna freak out and have withdrawal. If you drink everyday for 5 years you WILL have awful negative side effects, especially if you quit and go into terrible withdrawal. I never said that it was healthier than cigarettes at all. Than again, I've never known a pot smoker to smoke a pack of 20 joints a day either.

You opened by saying that marijuana literally cannot kill you. It literally can give you cancer. Cancer literally can kill you. That was my basic point.

If you drink every day for five years, you will not necessarily have negative side effects. In pro-marijuana arguments, the guy smoking never seems to smoke more than one joint each day. So, let's give alcohol the same benefit of the doubt. One glass of red wine per day. No negative side effects, and according to some studies, you even get positive ones.

On an unrelated note, I'm sick of the argument that marijuana is better than other drugs because it's "natural". There is nothing natural about taking a plant, crushing it up, burning it, and inhaling the fumes. You ever see animals do that shit? Not unless humans forced them to. Ergo, it's not fucking natural.

If you look at it from an alcoholic/pothead standpoint, a pothead has to smoke one joint to get high(not even, I actually don't know many people who use joints, they use up more weed than alternative methods), an alcoholic has to drink more than a glass of whine to get drunk. A glass of whine a day won't hurt you much if at all but a lot of people who drink every day aren't drinking a glass of whine or one beer, they are drinking to get buzzed or drunk.

I think I understand what Josh is saying. From a physical dependance standpoint, alcohol is worse than weed. My stance for a while has been that the main problem with weed is that it doesn't feel like it's hurting you at all. You don't get a hangover, a reminder of what going over the top can do. It's safer to smoke than to drink from an OD standpoint.

That being said, it seems like we're starting to learn inhaling smoke on a regular basis isn't very good for you.

Posted: Mar 27 2010 02:12 pm

joshwoodzy wrote:

When I say pot can't literally kill you, I meant that you can't overdose from smoking a couple doobies, but drink enough liquor and you can easily die. Of course I know it's carcinogenic, I'm just saying give a frat guy an ounce of pot and he will fail out of school. Give a frat guy a gallon of liquor on pledge night and you'll be calling the morgue.

Very true.

The "you can't OD" argument is certainly vaid and is not one I have a problem with. I do, however, have a problem with the argument that it's not physically addictive. So what? People smoke pot for the same reason people drink alcohol, do coke, or play World of Warcraft: because it makes them feel good. And anything that makes you feel good has the potential to be psychologically addictive, and often times it is. I spent the better part of three days last week doing nothing but going to work and playing Tekken 5. Did Tekken 5 emit little nictotine rays that forced me to play it? No, but I was having fun and I couldn't rest until everything was unlocked.

Posted: Mar 27 2010 02:24 pm

Syd Lexia wrote:

joshwoodzy wrote:

When I say pot can't literally kill you, I meant that you can't overdose from smoking a couple doobies, but drink enough liquor and you can easily die. Of course I know it's carcinogenic, I'm just saying give a frat guy an ounce of pot and he will fail out of school. Give a frat guy a gallon of liquor on pledge night and you'll be calling the morgue.

Very true.

The "you can't OD" argument is certainly vaid and is not one I have a problem with. I do, however, have a problem with the argument that it's not physically addictive. So what? People smoke pot for the same reason people drink alcohol, do coke, or play World of Warcraft: because it makes them feel good. And anything that makes you feel good has the potential to be psychologically addictive, and often times it is. I spent the better part of three days last week doing nothing but going to work and playing Tekken 5. Did Tekken 5 emit little nictotine rays that forced me to play it? No, but I was having fun and I couldn't rest until everything was unlocked.

I agree, people assume "not physically adictive" means not addictive at all. I was starting to buy into the "gateway drug" arguement but as a pothead I'm starting not to buy into it anymore. I have tried one other kind of drug but didn't care for it and have never had any real interest in hard drugs and smoking hasn't changed that. Weed doesn't make you use harder drugs, it's the people around you and the person who's using it. I may be lucky because I've never been pressured to try anything serious.

Joined: May 22 2008 Location: Goshen, VA Posts: 6544

Syd Lexia wrote:

joshwoodzy wrote:

When I say pot can't literally kill you, I meant that you can't overdose from smoking a couple doobies, but drink enough liquor and you can easily die. Of course I know it's carcinogenic, I'm just saying give a frat guy an ounce of pot and he will fail out of school. Give a frat guy a gallon of liquor on pledge night and you'll be calling the morgue.

Very true.

The "you can't OD" argument is certainly vaid and is not one I have a problem with. I do, however, have a problem with the argument that it's not physically addictive. So what? People smoke pot for the same reason people drink alcohol, do coke, or play World of Warcraft: because it makes them feel good. And anything that makes you feel good has the potential to be psychologically addictive, and often times it is. I spent the better part of three days last week doing nothing but going to work and playing Tekken 5. Did Tekken 5 emit little nictotine rays that forced me to play it? No, but I was having fun and I couldn't rest until everything was unlocked.

I'm never going to be one to use the addiction argument, because for a good chunk of my teenage years, all I did was smoke pot. When I quit in my early twenties, I can honestly say it was hard as balls. I was so use to being high, when I didn't have pot I was in a miserable mood, cranky and an overall asshole. Although I never had any withdrawal symptoms like when an alcoholic, heroin user or cocaine addict detoxes, I can certainly guarantee I was psychologically addicted to that shit.