Doddsino wrote:

UsaSatsui wrote: Quote: Yeah, I really don't like the idea of needing health insurance, I can see the perks down the line, but at the moment? I don't need it. You are aware that the entire point of insurance is to get it before you need it, in case something does happen, right? By the time you need it, it won't do you any good. I'm aware of that, but I live a reasonably healthy life, sure shit can happen, but that's a very slim chance. If I chose to live in danger, that's my choice. The government shouldn't make me pay for something I don't want to pay for. Because to me, it dumbs things down, people exploit the system and things get fucked up even more.

Yes, it's your choice to live in danger, but if you're one of those guys who doesn't have any insurance and then gets all fucked up guess who pays for it....EVERYONE ELSE. You'll go the emergency room and get the most expensive type of medical treatment--EMERGENCY ROOM care. And if you can't afford it (which you can't without insurance) everyone who does have insurance gets fucked in the ass in their premiums. That's part of why insurance costs so much, because everyone else has to pay for the guys who don't have it who then require emergency care, or waited too damn long to treat something that would have cost a fraction of the emergency treatment if they had detected it in the first place by going to the doctor regularly. And if you had insurance you'd have no qualms about going to doctor for checkups because it wouldn't cost much. Instead, these guys wait until their cancerous tumors are the size of softballs before realizing they need help.

You reailze the government already forces you to buy a lot of things, right? Like car insurance? Why? To protect everyone else. Same concept with health insurance.

Doddsino wrote:

Klimbatize wrote: Yes, it's your choice to live in danger, but if you're one of those guys who doesn't have any insurance and then gets all fucked up guess who pays for it....EVERYONE ELSE. You'll go the emergency room and get the most expensive type of medical treatment--EMERGENCY ROOM care. And if you can't afford it (which you can't without insurance) everyone who does have insurance gets fucked in the ass in their premiums. That's part of why insurance costs so much, because everyone else has to pay for the guys who don't have it who then require emergency care, or waited too damn long to treat something that would have cost a fraction of the emergency treatment if they had detected it in the first place by going to the doctor regularly. And if you had insurance you'd have no qualms about going to doctor for checkups because it wouldn't cost much. Instead, these guys wait until their cancerous tumors are the size of softballs before realizing they need help. You reailze the government already forces you to buy a lot of things, right? Like car insurance? Why? To protect everyone else. Same concept with health insurance. I understand what you're saying, and I don't believe that it is right for others to be forced to pay in case something does happen. Part of the problem is with how people choose to live their lives. The number one killer of people in my age demographic is car accidents. And yes, there is the chance that something could very well happen, but not very probable. I limit myself to where I go via car, and make wise decisions for the most part. I truly believe that the chance of something like that happening isn't enough for me to pay out of pocket, especially when I limit myself as much as I do right now. So yes, down the line I will get insurance, but given my position right now, where I hardly travel outside the home, eat healthy, exercise, there's no grizzly bears etc etc, I'd say my chances of ending up the emergency room are way too incredibly slim at this time.

How irresponsible. Or are you saying that if you do get in a car accident (vast majority of accidents happen within 5 miles of home) that nobody should try to save you? Have that tattooed to your forehead in case some EMTs do try to save you on everyone else's dime. That way we won't be wasting our money saving a guy who doesn't think anything can happen to him because he doesn't drive very far...WTF?

So if you prepare yourself not to have a ACCIDENT then you shouldn't get insurance. Think about that...you don't plan on getting into any car ACCIDENTS...you know, those things that you can't plan for.

How about any diseases? Are you positive you won't develop any forms of cancer? Or are you just going to plan on not getting any? Because once you do be sure to show your doctor your living will that reads:

"I didn't think I should pay for insurance, and since I'm such a swell guy I don't want everyone else paying for me. Do not give me any treatment for this disease that I somehow contracted even though I planned to never get one."

I'm guessing if the time comes that you do need some kind of medical treatment you'll have no problem jamming the rest of us with the tab. It's so ironic that guys who are for 'personal responsibility' don't even understand what that means or how society works. By taking this irresponsible stance you're telling everyone else to take care of you if something happens because you're too cheap to cover your own ass.

And yeah, health insurance is really expensive. That's why it shouldn't be an industry that's for profit. Overhauling the entire system and taking out the profit-seeking is the moral thing to do. Why is a matter of life and death being decided on quarterly stock statements for some corporations? It's so fucked up, and this attitude contributes to it.

UsaSatsui wrote:

Quote: That's why it shouldn't be an industry that's for profit. Overhauling the entire system and taking out the profit-seeking is the moral thing to do. Please tell me why people who spent 8 years in school, plus several more years in residencies and the like, don't deserve to make a profit off of it. Heck, supposed greed is nothing compared to the monster of malpractice suits. There is no single issue with the health care system. And for each one you bring up, it can be legitimately defended. This problem is not as simple as the political talking heads like to make it out to be.

You misunderstand me. I think doctors should be paid very well. I don't think scumbag health insurance executives should be making billions off of denying people care. If anything, all those extra profits should go back directly to those doctors and hospitals who are finding advancements in the medical field. Cut the insurance companies (who bring nothing to the table) out of the equation. And I worked as a health insurance salesman for 3 years. It's a crock of bullshit, the whole system.

40% of the premiums my company took in didn't even go towards paying out insurance claims. And that's the percentage they were willing to tell me about. And if you check, that's below the legal average. Insurance companies cook their books to make it seem like they are using a high percentage of the premiums to help out their clients. Wrong. It goes back into advertising, expanding, and executive bonuses. And I made a lot of money as well...way too much for what I did.

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

Klimbatize wrote: You misunderstand me. I think doctors should be paid very well. I don't think scumbag health insurance executives should be making billions off of denying people care. Health insurance is a business, as it should be. You have the right to health care, in that you will not be ignored if you're bleeding out on a hospital floor. You do NOT have the right to the best health care money can by, nor should you.

Why not? And why 'should' health insurance be a business. Think about it for a second.

Should the fire department be a business? Should the police? Should we stop putting taxes towards the police and instead forced to buy shitty insurance policies? That way if an emergency comes where we need the police we get help, but then a bill a few months later and we sure as shit have insurance for it or it's bankruptcy time. That way guys who don't think they'll ever need the police can skip out on paying for police insurance and then if something does happen they can just bone the rest of us.

Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? It is, and so is the concept of having a company being in charge of what will be paid and won't be when it comes to life and death.

Again, I think doctors, hospitals, medical researchers, etc should all be paid very well for their hard work. I'm not against that at all and, in fact, think we should invest more into that system. But not into the health insurance industry. It's a scam.

You need to think about it differently. First thing you need to ask yourself is what does a HEALTH insurance company bring to the table besides giving people jobs. In that case, you're basically arguing to keep the equivalents of tool booth operators on the highway that is your health.