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Joined: Nov 11 2009 Location: Cajun Country Posts: 1511

Stop complaining about the stupid ass TAS.

Posted: Feb 18 2010 09:55 pm

Oh sorry, am I to believe that a 35hp fighter can make it from the Marsh Cave to beating Lich in the Earth Cave? ffs.. In FFI, luck will intervene in the no-shopping challenge.

Posted: Feb 18 2010 09:57 pm

pineapple wrote:

Stop complaining about the stupid ass TAS.

Oh, you must NOT be talking in a thread about LEGITIMATE Final Fantasy challenges. Good day to you sir. How do you do?

Joined: Nov 11 2009 Location: Cajun Country Posts: 1511

I'm just saying. That speedrun is what it is. Nothing you can do about them cheating so let it go if it bothers you this much.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Feb 18 2010 10:04 pm

Please don't double-post. If you have more to say, use the Edit button.

Fortune Smiles wrote:

UsaSatsui wrote:

Do you know what a TAS (Tool-assisted speedrun) is?

It's not supposed to be a genuine speed run. It records and re-records over and over again to manipulate the outcome. This particular run manipulates the hell out of the random number generator to cause those events.

What is the point then, in cheating in a game? "I beat Contra with GameGenie!!! I'm a genius!" Do you agree with cheating?

It depends on how you look at it. TASers aren't trying to beat the game "legit". They're trying to exploit the game to do things that are impossible for a human to do. It's more of a challenge of programming and planning than it is of gameplay ability, sure, but that doesn't make it cheating unless you try and pass it off as something it's not. Or to paraphrase, it's only cheating if you're playing by the same set of rules.

Trust me, it's VERY hard to pull off a decent TAS.

Quote:

And again, you can run from nearly every enemy in the game, first round every time, so long as the person 2 spaces down from you is dead. It's a glitch. I abused the hell out of that in my Solo Fighter playthrough.

OK. So I stand corrected. Have fun with that CHEAT.

And you have fun with that cheat that lets you kill Goombas when you hop on them.

It's not a cheat, it's a programming glitch. It's something that's actually programmed into the game, although unintentionally. And quite frankly, you -can't- avoid it, particularly if you're going solo. And damn right, I'm going to use every tool the game offers me.

Posted: Feb 18 2010 10:07 pm

pineapple wrote:

I'm just saying. That speedrun is what it is. Nothing you can do about them cheating so let it go if it bothers you this much.

Oh, it got me right in the kidney!! OK, we're done with that pain. I want to here about the legitimate challenges undertaken and completed by avid FF fans. I remain ambivalent about such false pretensions, but we'll let the go. Post em, as long as they're backed up by legitimate vids of ACTUALLY beating these games under the prescribed conditions. That's all I want.

Posted: Feb 18 2010 10:10 pm

programming glitches arent cheating. its like that 'cheat' where you can get 100 men in mario bros by jumping off the koopa. its a glitch that no one caught, now its exploitable.

halo 2 had it w/the sword flying, but they patched the game later on and got rid of it. older games couldnt be patched so the glitches are still exploitable.

Posted: Feb 18 2010 10:11 pm

UsaSatsui wrote:

Please don't double-post. If you have more to say, use the Edit button.

Fortune Smiles wrote:

UsaSatsui wrote:

Do you know what a TAS (Tool-assisted speedrun) is?

It's not supposed to be a genuine speed run. It records and re-records over and over again to manipulate the outcome. This particular run manipulates the hell out of the random number generator to cause those events.

What is the point then, in cheating in a game? "I beat Contra with GameGenie!!! I'm a genius!" Do you agree with cheating?

It depends on how you look at it. TASers aren't trying to beat the game "legit". They're trying to exploit the game to do things that are impossible for a human to do. It's more of a challenge of programming and planning than it is of gameplay ability, sure, but that doesn't make it cheating unless you try and pass it off as something it's not. Or to paraphrase, it's only cheating if you're playing by the same set of rules.

Trust me, it's VERY hard to pull off a decent TAS.

Quote:

And again, you can run from nearly every enemy in the game, first round every time, so long as the person 2 spaces down from you is dead. It's a glitch. I abused the hell out of that in my Solo Fighter playthrough.

OK. So I stand corrected. Have fun with that CHEAT.

And you have fun with that cheat that lets you kill Goombas when you hop on them.

It's not a cheat, it's a programming glitch. It's something that's actually programmed into the game, although unintentionally. And quite frankly, you -can't- avoid it, particularly if you're going solo. And damn right, I'm going to use every tool the game offers me.

my response:

UsaSatsui wrote:

Please don't double-post. If you have more to say, use the Edit button.

Fortune Smiles wrote:

UsaSatsui wrote:

Do you know what a TAS (Tool-assisted speedrun) is?

It's not supposed to be a genuine speed run. It records and re-records over and over again to manipulate the outcome. This particular run manipulates the hell out of the random number generator to cause those events.

What is the point then, in cheating in a game? "I beat Contra with GameGenie!!! I'm a genius!" Do you agree with cheating?

It depends on how you look at it. TASers aren't trying to beat the game "legit". They're trying to exploit the game to do things that are impossible for a human to do. It's more of a challenge of programming and planning than it is of gameplay ability, sure, but that doesn't make it cheating unless you try and pass it off as something it's not. Or to paraphrase, it's only cheating if you're playing by the same set of rules.

Trust me, it's VERY hard to pull off a decent TAS.

Quote:

And again, you can run from nearly every enemy in the game, first round every time, so long as the person 2 spaces down from you is dead. It's a glitch. I abused the hell out of that in my Solo Fighter playthrough.

OK. So I stand corrected. Have fun with that CHEAT.

And you have fun with that cheat that lets you kill Goombas when you hop on them.

It's not a cheat, it's a programming glitch. It's something that's actually programmed into the game, although unintentionally. And quite frankly, you -can't- avoid it, particularly if you're going solo. And damn right, I'm going to use every tool the game offers me.

Posted: Feb 18 2010 10:12 pm

username wrote:

programming glitches arent cheating. its like that 'cheat' where you can get 100 men in mario bros by jumping off the koopa. its a glitch that no one caught, now its exploitable.

halo 2 had it w/the sword flying, but they patched the game later on and got rid of it. older games couldnt be patched so the glitches are still exploitable.

And by getting 100 men in mario bros, does that make you a better player? Knowledgeable, yes. But better?

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Feb 18 2010 10:13 pm

...well, your Chewbacca Defense strategy has worked in completely baffling me.

Posted: Feb 18 2010 10:14 pm

Fortune Smiles wrote:

username wrote:

programming glitches arent cheating. its like that 'cheat' where you can get 100 men in mario bros by jumping off the koopa. its a glitch that no one caught, now its exploitable.

halo 2 had it w/the sword flying, but they patched the game later on and got rid of it. older games couldnt be patched so the glitches are still exploitable.

And by getting 100 men in mario bros, does that make you a better player? Knowledgeable, yes. But better?

well, what exactly is your argument?

Posted: Feb 18 2010 10:16 pm

UsaSatsui wrote:

...well, your Chewbacca Defense strategy has worked in completely baffling me.

And such clandestine manipulation of semantics is a complete paradox of my strenuous plea for integrity.... Yeah.

Posted: Feb 18 2010 10:19 pm

username wrote:

Fortune Smiles wrote:

username wrote:

programming glitches arent cheating. its like that 'cheat' where you can get 100 men in mario bros by jumping off the koopa. its a glitch that no one caught, now its exploitable.

halo 2 had it w/the sword flying, but they patched the game later on and got rid of it. older games couldnt be patched so the glitches are still exploitable.

And by getting 100 men in mario bros, does that make you a better player? Knowledgeable, yes. But better?

well, what exactly is your argument?

Nothing. Beat Mario Bros with 100 lives. That makes you a super player. Not by beating it by playing straight through. No, getting 100 lives makes you the better player. It also proves me to be a bad challenge maker. All challenges should consist of taking advantage of 100 lives and infinite evasion.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Feb 18 2010 10:21 pm

Fortune Smiles wrote:

UsaSatsui wrote:

...well, your Chewbacca Defense strategy has worked in completely baffling me.

And such clandestine manipulation of semantics is a complete paradox of my strenuous plea for integrity.... Yeah.

Lookit the monkey, lookit the silly monkey!

Seriously, your argument against TAS runs is based on the idea that they're the same thing as playing through the game normally. They're not. Nobody except you is pretending they are.

There is no right or wrong way to play a damned video game. The only thing that is "wrong" is when someone presents something and it turns out to not be what they presented. That's not the case with tool-assisted runs. Let it go, will ya?

Posted: Feb 18 2010 10:24 pm

UsaSatsui wrote:

Fortune Smiles wrote:

UsaSatsui wrote:

...well, your Chewbacca Defense strategy has worked in completely baffling me.

And such clandestine manipulation of semantics is a complete paradox of my strenuous plea for integrity.... Yeah.

Lookit the monkey, lookit the silly monkey!

Seriously, your argument against TAS runs is based on the idea that they're the same thing as playing through the game normally. They're not. Nobody except you is pretending they are.

There is no right or wrong way to play a damned video game. The only thing that is "wrong" is when someone presents something and it turns out to not be what they presented. That's not the case with tool-assisted runs. Let it go, will ya?

Fuck no!! I don't give a flying shit what a TAS does. My thread is about playing the games on the original systems through legitimate means. If you can't do so, which I know you CAN (as I remember you doing a challenge on this website), then go take a hike. This thread is about doing challenges as per the resources that the games provide.

Posted: Feb 18 2010 10:35 pm

[quote="Fortune Smiles"]

Fortune Smiles wrote:

Secret of Mana: (included for obvious reason)

This challenge is not really that fun. I mean, after every boss your other guys get revived, and you can't kill them off, and, well, it's just not fun. (Not that I really went too far into the game anyway in this challenge.) So here's a better one IMO:

The No Magic Challenge. Of course, you will need to use spells on orbs in many places in the game, but that won't affect the challenge. Now, I tried this the absolute way and after a while it becomes near impossible, given that you are only able to carry a total of 4 each of the 3 possible healing items. So, in light of this fact, I will allow (yes, I have that power) the use of the spell Cure Water on two conditions:
- No level grinding of the spell. This means you can not cast it repeatedly to get it to the highest possible level. It can only gain levels as you use it when needed.
- No Fairie Walnuts. That will make you use it more sparingly, at least until the Girl reaches higher levels and gets more MP. If you get any from monsters, sell 'em.

If this challenge is too easy, the next step will be to allow only Body armor (no helms or gauntlets). And, if that is still to easy we will add that the weapons must stay at level one. And, if THAT is too easy for someone, then that person has effectively supplanted the deity of the Old/New Testaments of the Bible and shall be worshipped every Sunday by having their name chanted 1000 times by every person who plays video games.

PS
And remember, this is a video game, not some crappy test at school. Show it some respect by not cheating if you choose to undertake a challenge.

[Edit]
I suppose that the Mana Sword spell will need to be used at the last boss.

Try this. And don't yell at me. Try it.

2011 SNES Champ Joined: Dec 04 2006 Posts: 1929

TAS runs often involve around 10000 rerecordings. They can be insanely hard and long to do, and have almost nothing to do with normal gameplay challenges.
TAS runs aren't done to show how good you are, they're done (partly) because usually they're fun to watch

Quote:

My thread is about playing the games on the original systems through legitimate means.

Then stop derailing it by bitching about TASes with double-posts and quoting big walls of text.

Posted: Feb 18 2010 10:48 pm

lavalarva wrote:

TAS runs often involve around 10000 rerecordings. They can be insanely hard and long to do, and have almost nothing to do with normal gameplay challenges.
TAS runs aren't done to show how good you are, they're done (partly) because usually they're fun to watch

Quote:

My thread is about playing the games on the original systems through legitimate means.

Then stop derailing it by bitching about TASes with double-posts and quoting big walls of text.

OK, stop bitching about TASes. OMG, is that the only modern response to the good old RPG responses? Keep the TAS then. If that is your answer to game superiority. KEEP IT> OMG!! KEEP IT! That is all you have, enjoy it. You fucking loser!

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Feb 18 2010 11:10 pm

Fortune Smiles wrote:

OK, stop bitching about TASes. OMG, is that the only modern response to the good old RPG responses? Keep the TAS then. If that is your answer to game superiority. KEEP IT> OMG!! KEEP IT! That is all you have, enjoy it. You fucking loser!

Holy Completely Missing The Fucking Point, Batman!

I mean, really.

Posted: Feb 19 2010 08:14 am

UsaSatsui wrote:

Fortune Smiles wrote:

OK, stop bitching about TASes. OMG, is that the only modern response to the good old RPG responses? Keep the TAS then. If that is your answer to game superiority. KEEP IT> OMG!! KEEP IT! That is all you have, enjoy it. You fucking loser!

Holy Completely Missing The Fucking Point, Batman!

I mean, really.

Holy Intellectually Impecunious Degenerate, Batman!

Yeah, I mean really.

PS
I hope this "sparring" of ours is as funny for you as it is for me!! I always laugh when I am drawn out into such lavish responses! Wink

Posted: Feb 20 2010 10:10 am

Jesus. I come back to the forum after two months and I am greeted by THIS?

All we need now is Jeebus to come down here and lock the thread. Cool welcome back party, you guys.

Posted: Feb 20 2010 02:01 pm

Has anyone here played Final Fantasy II? I've only got it on the GBA, but my first playthrough in that game kicked the shit out of me since the stat-increase method wasn't based on experience and I didn't understand how to abuse it.

I wonder if there are any sane challenges for that one; I remember using the Cure spell a ton, so if that one is disqualified in any of 'em I would be screwed.

Someday I'm gonna have to play Final Fantasy I on the NES. Again, I have the GBA version, but I had no clue it was a nerfed difficulty version at the time.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Apr 07 2010 02:18 am

La la la I bump this for no raisin.

Posted: Apr 18 2010 02:22 am

Try the final dungeon in FFVI with just 3 members. And I mean 3 parties with only 1 member in each.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Apr 18 2010 04:43 am

slapolakinkaido wrote:

Try the final dungeon in FFVI with just 3 members. And I mean 3 parties with only 1 member in each.

It's not nearly as hard as it sounds. The required characters (Celes, Edgar, Sabin) are very strong. No Ultima, though.