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Some grammar questions......


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Ice2SeeYou
Title: Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Joined: Sep 28 2008
Location: South of Heaven
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 12:06 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I realize that asking about proper grammar on an internet forum is like asking the pope how to find the G-spot, but I find that the posters on Sydlexia's forums tend to have better grammar and spelling than most forums I've seen.

Can someone explain to me when you're supposed to use the words "who" VS "whom."

Also, I've never understood function/proper use of a semi-colon.

Help is appreciated, preferably with examples.


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SoldierHawk
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Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 12:31 pm Reply with quote Back to top

"Who" is used when referring to the subject of a sentence--"who are you?" "who did that?"

"Whom" is used when referring to the object of a sentence--"whom did you get that from?"

Easy way to keep them straight that I found while looking for tips online: 'whoM' and 'hiM' both end with "m." Remember that, and mentally phrase the answer to your question so that the answer is either 'he' or 'him.'

Q. [blank] did that?
A. *HE* did that.
Therefore: WHO did that?

Q. [blank} do you love?
A. I love HIM.
Therefore: WHOM do you love?



Semicolons are easier to use, but a hell of a lot harder to explain. Technically, it involves fun things like joining clauses that aren't already joined by a conjunction (like "and" and so forth.) The method I use to figure it is. if I have two sentences that COULD be separate, but because either the ideas are super closely related, or just for the sake of flow I want to make it a single sentence (without using conjunctions that can turn the whole thing into a run-on mess) I use a semicolon. Just remember, for a semicolon to be used, each half of the sentence has to be a FULL sentence on its own too.

I want to say: The water is blue. It shines like sapphire.

I could say: The water is blue; it shines like sapphire.

I could also say: The water is blue and it shines like sapphire.

I could NOT say: The water is blue; and it shines like sapphire.

I guess you could also say that you use a semicolon between two closely related sentences that you want to join, in the same way you use a regular comma within a sentence to separate clauses.



Did that make any kind of sense? Honestly, the rules are great to know, but the best way to pick this stuff up is just to read. The more you read, the more this stuff gets ingrained in your head, and becomes second nature.


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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 01:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

What really bothers me is that I'm surrounded by bad grammar all day with other people, that I find myself doing repeating it.
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Ice2SeeYou
Title: Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Joined: Sep 28 2008
Location: South of Heaven
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 01:29 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks SH.

That's a handy tip about the he/him to remember who/whom. I can't help but think that having the two words is unnecessary, though......just another useless thing that makes the English language so hard to learn.

I suppose I did always understand how to use a semi-colon; I just never quite understood why you'd use one. But now I see it's just a nifty way of putting two different, yet related thoughts into one sentence. It does help with flow; I think I'll try to make a habit of using them from now on Very Happy


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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 02:25 pm Reply with quote Back to top

nice. thanks SH


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lavalarva
2011 SNES Champ
Joined: Dec 04 2006
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 03:13 pm Reply with quote Back to top

About the semi-colon :

My English teacher told us to not use semi-colons. She said whenever students used them, they used them wrong about 99% of the time. "To make a sentence flow better" isn't a good reason apparently.
Just use a colon or a coma. It's almost never necessary to use a semi-colon to be grammatically correct.

She also told us Who = Subject and Whom = Object.

I don't really know how you're supposed to use semi-colons though. My grammar isn't much more advanced than that who/whom stuff and I still use a fuckload of gallicisms without realizing it.
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Ice2SeeYou
Title: Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Joined: Sep 28 2008
Location: South of Heaven
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 04:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

lavalarva wrote:
About the semi-colon :

My English teacher told us to not use semi-colons. She said whenever students used them, they used them wrong about 99% of the time. "To make a sentence flow better" isn't a good reason apparently.
Just use a colon or a coma. It's almost never necessary to use a semi-colon to be grammatically correct.

She also told us Who = Subject and Whom = Object.

I don't really know how you're supposed to use semi-colons though. My grammar isn't much more advanced than that who/whom stuff and I still use a fuckload of gallicisms without realizing it.

What's a gallicism?

Also, I take some of the stuff English teachers say with a grain of salt. I had a highschool English teacher who insisted that you can NEVER use the word "he" or "she" by itself as a pronoun when coupled with a gender-neutral pronoun. Example:

"If someone wants to find a job, he should update his resume."

My English teacher said this is wrong. She insisted that you must write:

"If someone wants to find a job, HE or SHE should update HIS or HER resume."



I always called bullshit on this, as it just seemed to overcomplicate and extend your writing for the sake of not being sexist. Later on in college, an English professor also said it was BS. He said to just pick one or the other and be done with it.


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Douche McCallister
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Title: DOO-SHAY
Joined: Jan 26 2007
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PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 05:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Couldn't you use they and their?


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Sexton Hardcastle
Title: The Supreme Element
Joined: Apr 01 2006
Location: Maine
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 06:35 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Doddsino wrote:
What really bothers me is that I'm surrounded by bad grammar all day with other people, that I find myself doing repeating it.

Like right there? Laughing
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lavalarva
2011 SNES Champ
Joined: Dec 04 2006
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 07:24 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Gallicisms are french expressions directly translated in another language, in my case English.
This includes retarded sentences from stupid students too lazy to use a dictionnary, like "I'm eating a pample mouse" (pamplemousse = grapefruit).

What I have trouble with is subtle stuff, like using to assist instead of to attend, and a shitload of expressions using the verb to take.

I heard about that "he or she" stuff too. She told us it was the right way to do it, but she didn't take away points in exams if we only wrote one of the pronouns.
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Ice2SeeYou
Title: Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Joined: Sep 28 2008
Location: South of Heaven
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 07:49 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Douche McCallister wrote:
Couldn't you use they and their?


"They" and "their" would be incorrect in that case because they are plural.

Example: SOMEONE who wants a job should update THEIR resume.

SOMEONE is a singular pronoun
THEIR is a plural pronoun

You can't mix and match singular and plural pronouns.....they've got to be the same, singular or plural.


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lavalarva
2011 SNES Champ
Joined: Dec 04 2006
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 08:00 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Ice2SeeYou wrote:
Douche McCallister wrote:
Couldn't you use they and their?


"They" and "their" would be incorrect in that case because they are plural.

Example: SOMEONE who wants a job should update THEIR resume.

SOMEONE is a singular pronoun
THEIR is a plural pronoun

You can't mix and match singular and plural pronouns.....they've got to be the same, singular or plural.

What about EVERYONE then? That's a singular pronoun.
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Captain_Pollution
Title: Hugh
Joined: Sep 23 2007
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 08:04 pm Reply with quote Back to top

First off, I'm kinda OCD about this sort of stuff... it's semicolon, not semi-colon.

Secondly,

[17:03:50] <+FabriqueAuMexique> !define Semicolon
[17:03:51] <@Lexiabot9000> Semicolon: "You know, if they just called it a 'Supercomma' then people would probably understand how to use it better."

And you also use them to separate items in a list, if the listed items have internal punctuation.


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Ice2SeeYou
Title: Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Joined: Sep 28 2008
Location: South of Heaven
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 08:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

lavalarva wrote:
Ice2SeeYou wrote:
Douche McCallister wrote:
Couldn't you use they and their?


"They" and "their" would be incorrect in that case because they are plural.

Example: SOMEONE who wants a job should update THEIR resume.

SOMEONE is a singular pronoun
THEIR is a plural pronoun

You can't mix and match singular and plural pronouns.....they've got to be the same, singular or plural.

What about EVERYONE then? That's a singular pronoun.

Hmmm......not sure about that. Maybe I was wrong up above. As I said, I'm no expert.


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Slayer1
Title: ,,!,, for you know who
Joined: Sep 23 2008
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 08:37 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Wouldn't a : also be used for listing things?
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lavalarva
2011 SNES Champ
Joined: Dec 04 2006
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 08:47 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I think EVERYONE is the pronoun you must refer to with "he or she". You can't get around it like you can with SOMEONE, because EVERYONE refers to a group of people.
Quote:
Wouldn't a : also be used for listing things?

Example of what Captain_Pollution was talking about :

"I have three animals : a dog, named Doggy; a cat, named Kitty; and a rabbit, named Ribbit."
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Captain_Pollution
Title: Hugh
Joined: Sep 23 2007
PostPosted: Feb 11 2010 09:16 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, a colon is only used when starting a list.


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Rycona
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Title: The Maestro
Joined: Nov 01 2005
Location: Away from Emerald Weapon
PostPosted: Feb 12 2010 11:30 am Reply with quote Back to top

I always liked using "one" for general statements regarding a person:

One who wants to get a job should update one's resume.


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Syd Lexia
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Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Feb 12 2010 11:51 am Reply with quote Back to top

When is it grammatically correct to say "Who dat"?
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Deadmau_5pra
Title: Amatuer film/podcaster
Joined: Feb 10 2009
Location: Chicago Area
PostPosted: Feb 12 2010 12:00 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
When is it grammatically correct to say "Who dat"?

During leisure time, when not involved with school or work. Smile


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