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Campaign finance bullshit


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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 08:54 am Reply with quote Back to top

I'm surprised no one's mentioned this. I'm enraged, and you should be too. Yesterday, the US Supreme Court overturned campaign finance laws that prevent corporations from producing political ads in support of campaigns. So from now on, Wal*Mart will pick the American president. John McCain must be spinning in his grave...
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APLETHORAOFPINATAS
Joined: Jun 10 2008
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 09:51 am Reply with quote Back to top

yea, this is total bullshit. Pretty scary too. I'm curious as to what the rationality is behind Corporations having the same rights as individuals in the eyes of the constiution so some degree.


In a way, each of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us. But as sure as my name is Lucky Day, the people of Santa Poco can conquer their own personal El Guapo, who also happens to be *the actual* El Guapo!
 
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Ice2SeeYou
Title: Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Joined: Sep 28 2008
Location: South of Heaven
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 10:10 am Reply with quote Back to top

Yea it sucks, but politics had degenerated into such a cesspool of irrational bullshit that I wonder how much it even matters anymore. I don't think Walmart has any more pull than the bible-humpers who protest gay marriage by day and parade around in white sheets by night.


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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 10:30 am Reply with quote Back to top

They have more money though. They could crank out ads in favor of a candidate that are slicker and more prolific.
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Deadmau_5pra
Title: Amatuer film/podcaster
Joined: Feb 10 2009
Location: Chicago Area
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 10:31 am Reply with quote Back to top

Read the transcript on NPR, doesn't sound good. I'm just waiting for all the "Nineteen-Eighty Four is Here!" hysteria Youtube/blog post. Oh wait....this actually happend, so they won't care for this.


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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 10:45 am Reply with quote Back to top

Friggin free speech law. One of these days, they'll apply it to speech.
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SoldierHawk
Moderator
Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 01:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not enraged any more than usual, purely because corporations and individuals with money have ALWAYS found ways around campaign finance laws. This is just putting the official stamp on it. (Which, yes, is completely skunky and anger inducing.)

Sigh. I haven't read the decision itself yet, but I can't WAIT to hear the logic on this one. Idiots. Rolling Eyes


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Ice2SeeYou
Title: Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Joined: Sep 28 2008
Location: South of Heaven
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 02:14 pm Reply with quote Back to top

SoldierHawk wrote:
I'm not enraged any more than usual, purely because corporations and individuals with money have ALWAYS found ways around campaign finance laws. This is just putting the official stamp on it. (Which, yes, is completely skunky and anger inducing.)

Sigh. I haven't read the decision itself yet, but I can't WAIT to hear the logic on this one. Idiots. Rolling Eyes

I agree. Big business will always have their hand in politics, whether it's by producing official ads or by sending interns to Capitol Hill to play with a few senators' ding-dongs.


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Thorton02
Joined: Mar 13 2009
Location: Arlington
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 02:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The one bright side(if you can call it that) is this could help challenge the two party system. A candidate could run without the backing of either party on a particiular platform(deregulation, small gov't, etc) and have the campagin funds to cause some serious damage.

Even with this legislation, the end result likely won't change. With this law, they're just getting rid of the smoke and mirrors as far as where all this campaign money is coming from in the first place. Big Business has always had their hand in the pot. Maybe now, we can really see where the money is coming from rather than individual doners. If Wall-mart gets behind a total douche, there'll be hell to pay from the consumer.

The hardest thing to swallow on this is we as a country are finally accepting that the corporation has more power than the individual. The Supreme Court just erased all doubts.


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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 02:31 pm Reply with quote Back to top

that campaign crap is very bad here in AZ. read so much about it in the free newspaper its annoying


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Unykle Broh
Title: Idiotique
Joined: Jul 24 2009
Location: Lake Stevens, WA
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 02:52 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not big on politics, so I may be wrong here, but if voters are gullible enough to vote for the candidate who spends the most money on advertisements, aren't they getting what they deserve? Wouldn't the bigger issue be corporations paying politicians who are already in office to vote for/against certain legislation?



 
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Ice2SeeYou
Title: Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Joined: Sep 28 2008
Location: South of Heaven
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 03:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Unykle Broh wrote:
I'm not big on politics, so I may be wrong here, but if voters are gullible enough to vote for the candidate who spends the most money on advertisements, aren't they getting what they deserve? Wouldn't the bigger issue be corporations paying politicians who are already in office to vote for/against certain legislation?

I think most people just vote along party lines anyway, so in that way it doesn't really matter. But advertisements = name recognition. So you may have a great candidate who will never win because no one knows who he is.


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Thorton02
Joined: Mar 13 2009
Location: Arlington
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 04:39 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Unykle Broh wrote:
I'm not big on politics, so I may be wrong here, but if voters are gullible enough to vote for the candidate who spends the most money on advertisements, aren't they getting what they deserve? Wouldn't the bigger issue be corporations paying politicians who are already in office to vote for/against certain legislation?


This is why true democracy is one of the the worst forms of government. Most people are idiots and I don't want them anywhere near the steering wheel.


No, I don't think I will fuck Stummies.
 
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amtaylor
Title: The Roadrunner
Joined: Jan 17 2010
Location: The Stygian Abyss, USA
PostPosted: Jan 23 2010 12:20 am Reply with quote Back to top

We still have one hope: Congress can pass into law campaign reform law, thus rendering the Supreme Court ruling moot. I wrote both my Senator and my Representative, but I'm thinking that Congress will do what it does best: Turn every good idea into a train wreak.


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Cpt. Fantastic
Title: El Capitan
Joined: May 29 2008
Location: The Great Northwest
PostPosted: Jan 23 2010 04:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Congress can't simply pass a law to get around this decision. Since the basis of the decision was the First Amendment, Congress can't pass any law that is not compatible with the decision. While the Supreme Court decided that corporations have rights under the First Amendment many decades ago, this decision seems to carry it to an extreme as far as Congressional ability to regulate that speech. Personally, I feel I am quite capable of making a distinction between the chilling effects of suppressing individual speech and the effects of limiting corporate speech. Justice Stevens wrote a great dissenting opinion. Here are a couple of my favorite lines: "Under the majority’s view, I suppose it may be a First Amendment problem that corporations are not permitted to vote, given that voting is, among other things, a form of free speech."

And:

"While American democracy is imperfect, few outside the majority of this Court would have thought its flaws included a dearth of corporate money in politics."


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JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Jan 23 2010 05:07 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
I'm surprised no one's mentioned this. I'm enraged, and you should be too. Yesterday, the US Supreme Court overturned campaign finance laws that prevent corporations from producing political ads in support of campaigns. So from now on, Wal*Mart will pick the American president. John McCain must be spinning in his grave...

McCain isn't dead.


There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
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amtaylor
Title: The Roadrunner
Joined: Jan 17 2010
Location: The Stygian Abyss, USA
PostPosted: Jan 23 2010 05:54 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Cpt. Fantastic wrote:
Congress can't simply pass a law to get around this decision. Since the basis of the decision was the First Amendment, Congress can't pass any law that is not compatible with the decision. While the Supreme Court decided that corporations have rights under the First Amendment many decades ago, this decision seems to carry it to an extreme as far as Congressional ability to regulate that speech. Personally, I feel I am quite capable of making a distinction between the chilling effects of suppressing individual speech and the effects of limiting corporate speech. Justice Stevens wrote a great dissenting opinion. Here are a couple of my favorite lines: "Under the majority’s view, I suppose it may be a First Amendment problem that corporations are not permitted to vote, given that voting is, among other things, a form of free speech."

And:

"While American democracy is imperfect, few outside the majority of this Court would have thought its flaws included a dearth of corporate money in politics."


Actually, Congress can pass a law to reform Campaign finance. While the Court ruled based on first amendment rights, it only applies to the current written law. Should Congress pass into effect a new law, the Supreme Court would not be able to directly overturn it, unless a case concerning the newly passed law was presented to the court.


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Cpt. Fantastic
Title: El Capitan
Joined: May 29 2008
Location: The Great Northwest
PostPosted: Jan 23 2010 06:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Congress can't pass a law that is antithetical to the holding in Citizens United. The Court took the case as an as applied challenge, but their holding (that restrictions on corporate advertising and express speech, for political candidates and issues, are unconstitutional) applies to all future Congressional action. Congress can try to pass a law that runs afoul of the holding, but if they choose to do so, and if the Executive Branch chooses to enforce it, a ruling from a district court will be sufficient to invalidate the law.
As Justice Kennedy states in his majority opinion:
"we return tot he principle established . . . that the Government may not suppress political speech on the basis of the speaker's corporate identity." In its holding, the Court overturned a prior ruling in the Austin case which allowed for restrictions on corporate spending on express political activities. Congress is acutely aware of the ramifications of Supreme Court opinions and rarely, if ever, do they intentionally thumb their nose at the Court and pass a law that is directly contrary to the Court's holdings.


"I have been accused of vulgarity. I say that's bullshit"
-Mel Brooks

"I can wire anything directly into anything! I'm the Professor!"
-Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
 
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Jan 23 2010 06:55 pm Reply with quote Back to top

JRA wrote:
Syd Lexia wrote:
I'm surprised no one's mentioned this. I'm enraged, and you should be too. Yesterday, the US Supreme Court overturned campaign finance laws that prevent corporations from producing political ads in support of campaigns. So from now on, Wal*Mart will pick the American president. John McCain must be spinning in his grave...

McCain isn't dead.

Said the Democrat to the Republican, without a hint of irony.
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Blackout
Title: Captain Oblivious
Joined: Sep 01 2007
Location: That Rainy State
PostPosted: Jan 24 2010 03:00 am Reply with quote Back to top

So the red / blue map of the states during an election will basically be a pepsi vs coke taste test poll? Confused



 
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JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Jan 25 2010 01:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
JRA wrote:
Syd Lexia wrote:
I'm surprised no one's mentioned this. I'm enraged, and you should be too. Yesterday, the US Supreme Court overturned campaign finance laws that prevent corporations from producing political ads in support of campaigns. So from now on, Wal*Mart will pick the American president. John McCain must be spinning in his grave...

McCain isn't dead.

Said the Democrat to the Republican, without a hint of irony.

You are using a different definition of dead than I am. I am referring to the "six feet under" dead, whereas you seem to be using something more cerebral.


There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
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Slayer1
Title: ,,!,, for you know who
Joined: Sep 23 2008
PostPosted: Jan 25 2010 02:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

When I saw this get passed, I could only refer it to this book...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Government
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
PostPosted: Jan 25 2010 02:07 pm Reply with quote Back to top

JRA wrote:
Syd Lexia wrote:
JRA wrote:
Syd Lexia wrote:
I'm surprised no one's mentioned this. I'm enraged, and you should be too. Yesterday, the US Supreme Court overturned campaign finance laws that prevent corporations from producing political ads in support of campaigns. So from now on, Wal*Mart will pick the American president. John McCain must be spinning in his grave...

McCain isn't dead.

Said the Democrat to the Republican, without a hint of irony.

You are using a different definition of dead than I am. I am referring to the "six feet under" dead, whereas you seem to be using something more cerebral.

Oh, for fuck's sake, it's a "McCain is old!" joke.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Jan 25 2010 03:41 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Slayer1 wrote:
When I saw this get passed, I could only refer it to this book...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Government

Holy shit. I remember that. Never read it, but read the free intro on the NationStates website. I used to love NationStates...
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Slayer1
Title: ,,!,, for you know who
Joined: Sep 23 2008
PostPosted: Jan 25 2010 04:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I did too, but unlike most of the people on there, I actually read the book. It was good, but it just seemed silly all the people would have their last names as the company they worked for.
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