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Posted: Nov 09 2009 12:16 am

Yeah so this is a self-serving, bragging thread, but you know what, I'm DAMN proud of myself. I have been practicing for a long, long time to get my Expert Marksman badge, and I finally got my Expert qualification for the M4 rifle. As an extra surprise, because I'm training to be an officer, they let me qualify with an officer's primary weapon, the m9 pistol. Managed expert on that one too. Fucking epic weekend. (I also got to rock and roll on the 240B machine gun, but that was just to burn extra ammo and not to qual.)

Anyway, this means I now get an extra piece of bling for my dress uniform:

Badass!

Posted: Nov 09 2009 12:21 am

NOTE TO SELF: If I ever piss sis off enough for her to come up and hunt me down, Make sure I hid all the ammo on college...

Posted: Nov 09 2009 01:17 am

Cool, so now you get to wear my name on your uniform!

Title: Titlating Joined: Dec 17 2007 Posts: 5042

Bu dum tish

Posted: Nov 09 2009 01:30 am

I accidentally shot the bullseye twice,
Now I am TWO MARKSMEN

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Congratulations Hawk!

Are you going to do sniper training school next?

Posted: Nov 09 2009 04:14 pm

GPFontaine wrote:

Congratulations Hawk!

Are you going to do sniper training school next?

God, I wish I could, but Army Sniper is an infantry MOS, and one I'm not allowed to train in. (No females in the infantry. Stupid fucking rule.)

However, there IS an Air Force *counter*-sniper school that just opened itself to women. Basically you learn how to be a sniper, but the emphasis is finding and destroying OTHER snipers before they can take out the good guys. I don't know what the chances of my being sent to that are, but I do have the advantage of being an almost-officer, and the Army likes their officers to have as many different experiences as possible (for example, I get to go to Airborne school this summer, and hopefully Pathfinder and/or Air Assault school sometime next year.) I'm toying with the idea of trying to trade Pathfinder/Air Assault for Counter-Sniper school now that I qualify. I really want my Pathfinder badge, but that'll be slightly easier to get once I commission since its an actual Army school. Air Force schools will be a lot harder to come by.

Tl;dr: I'm going to try to convince my command to send me to Air Force Counter-Sniper School, the only sniper program open to females in the military.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Nov 09 2009 04:59 pm

But what about Sniper Wolf?

Posted: Nov 09 2009 05:11 pm

Someone find me a picture of a Hawk with a gun in it's mouth so I can edit this!

Posted: Nov 09 2009 05:25 pm

Nevermind!

Posted: Nov 09 2009 05:37 pm

Blackout, you are my new hero Laughing

And Usa, since (as far as I know) FOXHOUND is purely fictional, I don't think I'll be recruited by them anytime soon. Sad

Posted: Nov 09 2009 06:10 pm

SoldierHawk wrote:

Blackout, you are my new hero Laughing

And Usa, since (as far as I know) FOXHOUND is purely fictional, I don't think I'll be recruited by them anytime soon. Sad

That can be arranged, just let me get on the line with roy and you'll be in.

Posted: Nov 09 2009 07:29 pm

Also, Sniper Wolf was russian, so she was probably originally trained by the KGB ot the Soviet Army, not the US.

And, true that FOXHOUND doesn't exist. But, Dead Cell (MGS2) was based off of a real unit called "Red Cell."

"Red Cell" was a U.S. Navy SEAL team which had been organized to attempt to infiltrate and otherwise test the security of U.S. military bases and other installations sensitive to U.S. security interests. The original Red Cell group was led by the founder of SEAL Team Six, and US's biggest badass, Richard Marcinko. (Not to be confused with with the host of Future Weapons, Former Navy SEAL, Richard Machowicz)

After leaving command at SEAL Team Six, Marcinko was tasked to design a unit to test the Navy's vulnerability to terrorism. The name of the unit was Naval Security Coordination Team OP-06D. Marcinko hand-picked twelve men from SEAL Team Six and one from Marine Force Recon. The unit was unofficially named Red Cell.

This team tested the security of naval bases, nuclear submarines, ships, civilian airports and a U.S. embassy. Marcinko was directed to use his team to test the Navy's anti-terrorist capabilities. As a result he was able to infiltrate seemingly impenetrable, highly-secured bases, nuclear submarines, ships and other purported "secure areas", including the U.S. Presidential plane Air Force One, and disappeared without incident. These demonstrations showed that the replacement of Marines as security by private security agencies started by retired military personnel and awarded contracts resulted in a vulnerable military.

Marcinko has claimed, among others, that Red Cell successfully captured nuclear devices from United States Navy facilities, and proved the viability of plans to:

Penetrate and attack nuclear-powered submarines

Destroy subs by using them as improvised dirty bombs, and

Capture launch codes for nuclear weapons aboard the subs by using mild torture against personnel in custody of launch codes.

So there you go. I think it's only a matter of time, until our little Hawk will surpass this.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

SoldierHawk wrote:

GPFontaine wrote:

Congratulations Hawk!

Are you going to do sniper training school next?

God, I wish I could, but Army Sniper is an infantry MOS, and one I'm not allowed to train in. (No females in the infantry. Stupid fucking rule.)

However, there IS an Air Force *counter*-sniper school that just opened itself to women. Basically you learn how to be a sniper, but the emphasis is finding and destroying OTHER snipers before they can take out the good guys. I don't know what the chances of my being sent to that are, but I do have the advantage of being an almost-officer, and the Army likes their officers to have as many different experiences as possible (for example, I get to go to Airborne school this summer, and hopefully Pathfinder and/or Air Assault school sometime next year.) I'm toying with the idea of trying to trade Pathfinder/Air Assault for Counter-Sniper school now that I qualify. I really want my Pathfinder badge, but that'll be slightly easier to get once I commission since its an actual Army school. Air Force schools will be a lot harder to come by.

Tl;dr: I'm going to try to convince my command to send me to Air Force Counter-Sniper School, the only sniper program open to females in the military.

Finishing sniper school is about the same in my mind as finishing any special forces training. I am not comparing the skills, but rather the fact that you will become a lethal force and will kill people. I'm not sure if you have had to take that step, but I imagine that counter snipers would put you in the same position.

Posted: Nov 10 2009 12:30 am

good job SH. very very impressive.

whats better than one sniper mark? two marks at the same time....

Gallery 2 · Posted: Nov 10 2009 01:21 am

Note to self: When the Zombie Apocalypse arrives, look for SoldierHawk...

Posted: Nov 10 2009 01:26 am

GPFontaine wrote:

Finishing sniper school is about the same in my mind as finishing any special forces training. I am not comparing the skills, but rather the fact that you will become a lethal force and will kill people. I'm not sure if you have had to take that step, but I imagine that counter snipers would put you in the same position.

Absolutely. If you're asking if I've ever killed anyone before lol, no. I'm not eligible for deployment until I commission in a year to a year and a half. Now, I don't think anyone can predict what their reaction will be when thrust into a battle, or when they get the order to kill, but believe me I've given it a whooole lot of thought. I wouldn't have signed with any military branch, let alone the Army, if I hadn't answered that question to my own satisfaction.

After IEDs (and RPGs, I suppose), though, snipers are one of the highest casualty producers in both Iraq and Afghanistan. If I could get myself trained up to stop some of those assholes from picking off our guys, I'd jump at the chance.

Posted: Nov 10 2009 02:45 am

Congrats!! I would have thought the gender hurdle was tackled by now though. I would think of all the reasons they could come up with as far as "gender issues" to not place a female in a military position, a sniper would be the least likely for them to criticize for obvious reasons. Congrats again.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

I don't see what the obvious reasons are?

Personally I think that men and women should both be able to equally fight for... well, whatever the fuck they desire. There is no rule that prevents women from being bad guys... er... bad gals? Why should there be a rule that prevents women from being the protagonists?

Banned Joined: Sep 13 2008 Posts: 3129

Wow hawk, that's great. What skills do they require to earn one?

Posted: Nov 10 2009 10:24 am

GPFontaine wrote:

I don't see what the obvious reasons are?

Personally I think that men and women should both be able to equally fight for... well, whatever the fuck they desire. There is no rule that prevents women from being bad guys... er... bad gals? Why should there be a rule that prevents women from being the protagonists?

I would guess that it is an image issue with the military. I'm sure that they think sending home numerous female casualties would "feel" and "look" worse for many people. When you here the word soldier, you are more inclined to think of a male as opposed to a female.

This isn't something I agree with personally, but it seems to be the reality. Hawk and all female military personnel should have the right to wreak havoc if they have the inclination and capabilities.

Posted: Nov 10 2009 12:30 pm

Well, part of me understands the adversity to women in Infantry and other combat MOSes. I honestly don't think men will ever be able to forget that a female is a *female*, and not just another soldier, and that would be requirement #1 to integrate women into the front lines. I mean, look at how difficult its been with allowing homosexuals in the military. When the military as a whole would rather cut loose people with vital language (ad other) skills rather than tell the rest of the guys to suck it up and just treat them like the soldiers they are...well, women have a hell of a long way to go. And that's even before we look at the obvious physical differences. (Although, I still think if a woman is strong and fast enough to hang with the guys, there's no reason those jobs should be closed to her.)

So things like Infantry I kind of understand, but where these restrictions are really insane is in combat jobs that women, as a group, are actually *MORE* qualified for than men. For example, the Navy just this year lifted its ban on women serving in submarines--despite knowing for almost 30 years that women handle almost all the stressful conditions in submarines better than men (having to live so close together, being inside for weeks at a time, the odd hours, etc). This goes for snipers as well--women as a whole have steadier aim and greater natural patience and endurance when it comes to staking out a spot and waiting for a target. (None of this is to knock on guys you understand; its just how it is--in the same way most guys can train themselves to carry 100lb+ packs for days and days on end, and most women can't.) So...yeah. That was a bit rambly, but anyways.

Hacker, to answer your question, to qualify Expert on the M4 you have to hit 38/40 shots (I got 39, and only missed that last one because my damn weapon jammed in the middle of the qual and I had to eject the round), and for the M9 its 41 hits with minimum 25 inside a vital area and 6 headshots for expert (I hit 45/45, unsure of the headshot/vital area breakdown.)

Banned Joined: Sep 13 2008 Posts: 3129

Wow, the M4 sounds like more fun than a challenge.

May I ask exactly how the test works?

Posted: Nov 10 2009 01:20 pm

There are two possible ways it can work: either paper targets with simulated distance (i.e. a bunch of targets on a single sheet of 8x11 paper, drawn bigger or smaller to simulate targets at a distance of anywhere between 50 and 300 meters) or a pop-up range (what we used) where the targets are actually at that distance, pop up for 5 or so seconds each, go down, and you hope to get your round off and score a hit before they do. You have 40 rounds, 20 of them are fired standing in a foxhole and your left arm (or right arm, if you're left handed) supported by sandbags. Then you have 10 rounds fired from the prone unsupported position (lying flat on the ground and supporting your rifle with your non-trigger hand), and 10 rounds fired from the kneeling position. 23 hits is qualification as a Marksman, 27 (I think? not entirely sure) is sharpshooter, and 38 and above is expert.

Pistol range is all standing, (almost) always pop up, with the added wrinkles of having to reload on your own while targets are popping up so you have to be very quick on the magazine insertion and pistol cocking (and extra sure not to accidentally try to fire the weapon while its saftied, like I did my first time Rolling Eyes

). Also, unlike the rifle range, your score is not just tallied by hits, but by *where* you hit like I mentioned before.

Trust me though, while firing the M4 is always fun, the range we fired on was a *BITCH*. It was so damn overgrown that it was very, very hard to see the targets and stay in your lane, especially the 300 meter ones. I heard more than one story of guys who accidentally 'helped' out their buddies score by firing at targets other than their own lol, or who just missed seeing a bunch of the targets entirely. (The M9 range, on the other hand, was brand new and one of the best ranges I've ever been on.)

Banned Joined: Sep 13 2008 Posts: 3129

Wow. Now that DOES sound fun.

But I like guns so it could just be me