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Ky-Guy
Title: Obscure Nintendo Gamer
Joined: Jul 19 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1418
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Today, I read an article about why retro games are better than new ones. I think it has a lot of valid points. I think the first two are the best.
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| iPhone games are what you play when you can't get at actual games. You know, like how sometimes alcoholics drink mouthwash. |
| Lexiabot9000 wrote: |
| Your love life will be happy and harmonious if you stick to masturbating. |
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Bouya
Title: Delinquent
Joined: Aug 15 2007
Location: Suzuran
Posts: 1443
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That was seriously allowed on msnbc?
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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Older games are not longer. I love the hell out of SMB3, but it has, at best, maybe 5 hours of gameplay. Of course, when you're a dumb little kid and you suck at it, it will take probably 50 hours of pratice before you finally beat it.
I do agree that older games are more straightforward and often more challenging though. I find myself playing a lot of retro games just because they're easier to pick up and play. No tutorials, no cutscenes, no loading times. And the games only have 2-4 buttons, so the controls are always easy to figure out.
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Optimist With Doubts
Title: Titlating
Joined: Dec 17 2007
Posts: 5042
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Msnbc's articles are usually pretty boring and uninspired. Now I agree that older games are really fun and can be easier to just pick up and play for a bit than newer games. If that article said that it would be fine but it was another "waaaaaaah new things are hard it was better when i was a kid everything sucks now" rant fest that really gets annoying.
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Dii Infer
Title: Boobie Engineer
Joined: Jun 01 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 653
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Most games nowadays offer special rewards and whatnot to provide incentive for you to replay them, but I honestly think the classic games provide a much more rewarding experience -- even the ones that have no rewards after the end of the game!
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Pandajuice
Title: The Power of Grayskull
Joined: Oct 30 2008
Location: US and UK
Posts: 2649
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| Optimist With Doubts wrote: |
| Msnbc's articles are usually pretty boring and uninspired. Now I agree that older games are really fun and can be easier to just pick up and play for a bit than newer games. If that article said that it would be fine but it was another "waaaaaaah new things are hard it was better when i was a kid everything sucks now" rant fest that really gets annoying. |
I agree with this. Most older games were simple, short, and either frustratingly difficult (to artificially extend the play time) or stupidly easy. I find newer games to be more well rounded and entertaining experiences that feel like you're accomplishing something, even if you aren't.
I try to go back and play older games every now and then, and I always find it a tedious experience because of the newer gaming innovations that we've taken for granted and been spoiled by.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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The problem with newer games is that they're too story-driven. A game with an actual story!? How could that possibly be bad?
Pretty easily, actually. First of all, most of these game plots are uninspired recycled B-movie trash with dialogue so cheesy even Steven Seagal would tear up the script in disgust. Secondly, when the game is very plot intensive, it ruins the replayability. When you're playing a game to find out what happens next, it's fun and exciting... the first time. But once you know all the plot twists, the game becomes far less exciting. And you get bored with it. Of course, this is exactly what developers want. They want you to play through a game in a week or two, get bored with it, and buy their newest game. Older games are free from such pretenses and tend to be more replayable because of it. Games like SMB1 and Mega Man 2 are awesome because you just start them up, and go. The rules don't change from level to level. You don't wander around trying to figure out where you're supposed to go. Go forward, and you kill every fucking thing in your way. Simple, effective, and suprirsingly replayable.
And although they are longer than the games of yesteryear, today's games are too short. In the days of 8-bit and 16-bit consoles, the genuine game makers tried to fit as much game as they possibly could on a cartridge; the imitators who were out to make a quick buck off the video game trend threw together crap. Today, game designers rarely push game discs to their maximum capacity, and when they do, it's usually due to hi-res FMV rather than a giant gaming experience. Take the upcoming New Super Mario Bros. Wii. It will probably have 7 or 8 worlds and best case scenario, around 60 levels. And that was fine 20 years ago when they made Super Mario World, but in today's world, that's completely fucking lazy. A console-based 2D Mario game like this should have been WiiWare. But instead, it's going to be a physical game with a likely MSRP of 49.99. And given the game's price and it's style, it should have at least 200 levels. Realistically, it should have closer to 300 levels. But it won't. So if I buy this game, I'll have it beat in about 3 hours. Fan-fucking-tastic.
NSMBW is just the most glaring example of this. BioShock, Ghostbusters, and Force Unleashed were way too fucking short as well.
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Dii Infer
Title: Boobie Engineer
Joined: Jun 01 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 653
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Imagine how pissed I was when I payed $50 for Enter the Matrix for Gamecube, a game I ended up beating in less than a day. I'm serious.
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Bouya
Title: Delinquent
Joined: Aug 15 2007
Location: Suzuran
Posts: 1443
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| Take the upcoming New Super Mario Bros. Wii. It will probably have 7 or 8 worlds and best case scenario, around 60 levels. And that was fine 20 years ago when they made Super Mario World, but in today's world, that's completely fucking lazy. A console-based 2D Mario game like this should have been WiiWare. But instead, it's going to be a physical game with a likely MSRP of 49.99. And given the game's price and it's style, it should have at least 200 levels. Realistically, it should have closer to 300 levels. But it won't. So if I buy this game, I'll have it beat in about 3 hours. Fan-fucking-tastic. |
I think your expectations are a little too high there. You're in the era of for-pay DLC, and the industry has a 20+ year history of not throwing you 300 levels unless you're talking about some puzzle game.
And with something like a Mario title, is it really about the length of the ride, or what you see on the way? There's still people playing the previous Mario games, whether it's for fun or for speedrun or superplay purposes, etc. I'm way more willing to cut some slack to a game like a Mario or whatever than I am to something like the EA sports roster that really doesn't merit an annual update.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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I find most Mario games to be highly replayable, but NSMB felt incredibly short and uninspired. NSMBW does not look like it will be any different.
And the fact that Nintendo is going to charge $50 what is essentially SMB3 2.0 in this day and age pisses me off. This game should have been $15-20 WiiWare. For $6, I can download Bubble Bobble Plus off of WiiWare and get just as much gameplay as I'd get out of NSMBW. I probably wouldn't though, because Bub and Bob look like ass in BBP.
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anorexorcist
Title: Polar Bear
Joined: May 21 2008
Location: The Cock and Plucket
Posts: 2131
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
The problem with newer games is that they're too story-driven. A game with an actual story!? How could that possibly be bad?
Pretty easily, actually. First of all, most of these game plots are uninspired recycled B-movie trash with dialogue so cheesy even Steven Seagal would tear up the script in disgust. Secondly, when the game is very plot intensive, it ruins the replayability. When you're playing a game to find out what happens next, it's fun and exciting... the first time. But once you know all the plot twists, the game becomes far less exciting. And you get bored with it. Of course, this is exactly what developers want. They want you to play through a game in a week or two, get bored with it, and buy their newest game. Older games are free from such pretenses and tend to be more replayable because of it. |
Story driven games, you mean like FF, FFIV and FFVI? Or are the stories in those games far superior because you played them as a kid and now seem better because of nostalgia?
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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FF1 isn't really story-driven. There's a lot of "talk to everyone until you figure out where to go next", but not a whole lot of story.
But RPGs in genre are story-driven, so my criticism isn't really of RPGs. It's every other genre.
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Andrew Man
Title: Is a Funklord
Joined: Jan 30 2007
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 5603
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
The problem with newer games is that they're too story-driven. A game with an actual story!? How could that possibly be bad?
Pretty easily, actually. First of all, most of these game plots are uninspired recycled B-movie trash with dialogue so cheesy even Steven Seagal would tear up the script in disgust. Secondly, when the game is very plot intensive, it ruins the replayability. When you're playing a game to find out what happens next, it's fun and exciting... the first time. But once you know all the plot twists, the game becomes far less exciting. And you get bored with it. Of course, this is exactly what developers want. They want you to play through a game in a week or two, get bored with it, and buy their newest game. Older games are free from such pretenses and tend to be more replayable because of it. |
| anorexorcist wrote: |
| Story driven games, you mean like FF, FFIV and FFVI? Or are the stories in those games far superior because you played them as a kid and now seem better because of nostalgia? |
I was gonna make the same point Anorexorcist.
The FF series is very story driven, and yet a majority of those games are highly replayable, granted some have better stories than the others, but they are generally well written. Although I can see Syd's point, Gears of War 2 was written terribly however the gameplay was still very solid...but I guess that one wasn't driven by the story persee.
| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| So if I buy this game, I'll have it beat in about 3 hours. Fan-fucking-tastic. |
First off, there is no if about it my friend, just like me, you are a Nintendo fanboy and will end up purchasing it on the sole fact its a canon Mario title.
Also, you really can't knock Bioshock for being too short because IMO the game is such a fucking achievement. The amount of detail squeezed into that game is not found in many others, also the environment is more immersive than any game I can recall playing. I mean, you really FEEL like you are in the underwater city of rapture in the early 60's, the ambiance is unbelievable. The way you switched between your weapons (which were visually upgradeable as the game progressed) and the bare handed plasmids was revolutionary and refreshing in itself.Granted if you are pretty good and shredding the game you can beat it in like 6-8 hours, however I let that slide because of all it achieves and you are left so satisfied upon completing it. Story wise, Bioshock is also one of the best written games that I can recall in recent memory. The writers are very logical and great at covering their asses, think about it, despite how far fetched some shit may seem they actually succeed in having it make sense and appear purposeful. I am very excited about the sequel.
| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| I find most Mario games to be highly replayable, but NSMB felt incredibly short and uninspired. NSMBW does not look like it will be any different........I probably wouldn't though (download BB+), because Bub and Bob look like ass in BBP. |
I totally agree with your thoughts on NSMB on the DS, I really just felt like I was going through the motions with that one. Also one thing that bothered me that you may not have noticed was how fucking terrible the music was. Can we get Koji Kondo back from Christ's sake, Mario games are always known for their fantastically whimsical and memorable soundtracks.
Also, Bubble Bobble plus is a great download.
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3DS is very good, and Wii U!
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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| Andrew Man wrote: |
| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| So if I buy this game, I'll have it beat in about 3 hours. Fan-fucking-tastic. |
First off, there is no if about it my friend, just like me, you are a Nintendo fanboy and will end up purchasing it on the sole fact its a canon Mario title. |
This is true.
Also, I would like to submit to you guys that the Final Fantasy games are not THAT replayable. A game that has true replayability is something that the second you beat it, you're already excited to play it again. That has rarely been the case for me with turn-based RPGs in general, or Final Fantasy in particular. I don't beat Final Fantasy IV and then think to myself, "Man, I can't fucking wait to grind those dungeons all over again!"
Do I play through my favorite ones every couple years? Absolutely. But if I was stuck in a cabin in the woods with a SNES and nothing but Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VI, and Breath of Fire 2, I'd kill myself within four months. No question.
Honestly, out of all the Final Fantasy games, I'd actually say FF1 has the most replayability. Since you get to pick your characters' classes, and since you can't ever change them (aside from the promotion), you can challenge yourself by building different parties.
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Andrew Man
Title: Is a Funklord
Joined: Jan 30 2007
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 5603
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| Andrew Man wrote: |
| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| So if I buy this game, I'll have it beat in about 3 hours. Fan-fucking-tastic. |
First off, there is no if about it my friend, just like me, you are a Nintendo fanboy and will end up purchasing it on the sole fact its a canon Mario title. |
This is true.
Also, I would like to submit to you guys that the Final Fantasy games are not THAT replayable. A game that has true replayability is something that the second you beat it, you're already excited to play it again. That has rarely been the case for me with turn-based RPGs in general, or Final Fantasy in particular. I don't beat Final Fantasy IV and then think to myself, "Man, I can't fucking wait to grind those dungeons all over again!"
Do I play through my favorite ones every couple years? Absolutely. But if I was stuck in a cabin in the woods with a SNES and nothing but Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VI, and Breath of Fire 2, I'd kill myself within four months. No question.
Honestly, out of all the Final Fantasy games, I'd actually say FF1 has the most replayability. Since you get to pick your characters' classes, and since you can't ever change them (aside from the promotion), you can challenge yourself by building different parties. |
This to is true, I have never wanted to dive right back into a FF game. The only RPG I have been like that with is Chrono Trigger. I could never get enough of that game, plus it is fantastically written. Don't even get me started on the unbelievable soundtrack...
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3DS is very good, and Wii U!
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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And on top of that, Chrono Trigger had multiple endings.
And action-oriented RPGs like Crystalis and LTTP always get me to come back for a second time almost immediately.
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Andrew Man
Title: Is a Funklord
Joined: Jan 30 2007
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 5603
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The multiple endings is true and a draw, I am pretty sure Chrono Trigger pioneered that, many RPGs have tried to follow suit.
aLTTP is a 2D masterpiece.
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 My Muzaks! CHECK IT OUT!!!
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3DS is very good, and Wii U!
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16136
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Dragon Warrior always had replayabality. even though its the same grindfest as FF, i always felt compelled to jump back into those games
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| Klimbatize wrote: |
| I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load |
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Bouya
Title: Delinquent
Joined: Aug 15 2007
Location: Suzuran
Posts: 1443
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| Andrew Man wrote: |
The multiple endings is true and a draw, I am pretty sure Chrono Trigger pioneered that, many RPGs have tried to follow suit.
aLTTP is a 2D masterpiece. |
Maniac Mansion did multiple endings years before CT, and probably wasn't the first game to do so.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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Maniac Mansion also isn't an RPG.
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Deadmau_5pra
Title: Amatuer film/podcaster
Joined: Feb 10 2009
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 1126
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I just play games.
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JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
Posts: 6544
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Aside from RPG's, Bubble Bobble had multiple endings
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slapolakinkaido
Title: Illegitimate Son of God
Joined: Jul 14 2009
Posts: 1565
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| Andrew Man wrote: |
| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| So if I buy this game, I'll have it beat in about 3 hours. Fan-fucking-tastic. |
First off, there is no if about it my friend, just like me, you are a Nintendo fanboy and will end up purchasing it on the sole fact its a canon Mario title. |
This is true.
Also, I would like to submit to you guys that the Final Fantasy games are not THAT replayable. A game that has true replayability is something that the second you beat it, you're already excited to play it again. That has rarely been the case for me with turn-based RPGs in general, or Final Fantasy in particular. I don't beat Final Fantasy IV and then think to myself, "Man, I can't fucking wait to grind those dungeons all over again!"
Do I play through my favorite ones every couple years? Absolutely. But if I was stuck in a cabin in the woods with a SNES and nothing but Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VI, and Breath of Fire 2, I'd kill myself within four months. No question.
Honestly, out of all the Final Fantasy games, I'd actually say FF1 has the most replayability. Since you get to pick your characters' classes, and since you can't ever change them (aside from the promotion), you can challenge yourself by building different parties. |
I think it's not so much the story, but the customization that makes RPG's replayable. I like your point about FF1 being the most replayable because of being able to pick your classes. For example I prefer FFV over FFIV because of the job system. I like being able to shape my characters any way I want. For example, in FFIV when I lost Yang I was like 'Fuck, I don't have a bare knuckle fighter anymore.' But in FFV I can have as many bare knuckled fighters as I want.
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TheRoboSleuth
Title: Sleuth Mark IV
Joined: Aug 08 2006
Location: The Gritty Future
Posts: 2739
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| slapolakinkaido wrote: |
| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| Andrew Man wrote: |
| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| So if I buy this game, I'll have it beat in about 3 hours. Fan-fucking-tastic. |
First off, there is no if about it my friend, just like me, you are a Nintendo fanboy and will end up purchasing it on the sole fact its a canon Mario title. |
This is true.
Also, I would like to submit to you guys that the Final Fantasy games are not THAT replayable. A game that has true replayability is something that the second you beat it, you're already excited to play it again. That has rarely been the case for me with turn-based RPGs in general, or Final Fantasy in particular. I don't beat Final Fantasy IV and then think to myself, "Man, I can't fucking wait to grind those dungeons all over again!"
Do I play through my favorite ones every couple years? Absolutely. But if I was stuck in a cabin in the woods with a SNES and nothing but Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VI, and Breath of Fire 2, I'd kill myself within four months. No question.
Honestly, out of all the Final Fantasy games, I'd actually say FF1 has the most replayability. Since you get to pick your characters' classes, and since you can't ever change them (aside from the promotion), you can challenge yourself by building different parties. |
I think it's not so much the story, but the customization that makes RPG's replayable. I like your point about FF1 being the most replayable because of being able to pick your classes. For example I prefer FFV over FFIV because of the job system. I like being able to shape my characters any way I want. For example, in FFIV when I lost Yang I was like 'Fuck, I don't have a bare knuckle fighter anymore.' But in FFV I can have as many bare knuckled fighters as I want. |
I like your post, and if you would get a goddamn avatar I might consider you a regular.
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Blackout
Title: Captain Oblivious
Joined: Sep 01 2007
Location: That Rainy State
Posts: 10376
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Which asshole's idea was it to stretch that article over six pages?
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