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Posted: Apr 15 2009 04:05 pm

Just curious what people's thoughts on these are. I hate what Obama's doing so I like it in theory, but I'm pretty sure most of the people taking part in these actually paid their taxes, so it kinda defeats the purpose.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Apr 15 2009 04:19 pm

It's supposedly an "anti-government" protest in general.

I have two things to say about it.

First off, I think calling it a "tea party" is an insult, not a homage. These protesters today are not risking imprisonment and execution, they are not suffering under an overly oppressive government without representation, and they risk nothing by coming out and protesting. That doesn't mean I don't agree with them (I do, mostly, particularly on the issue of Federal overreaching), but I'd like to see some perspective.

Second, if these people really wanna cheese the Liberals off, they should actually toss tea into the harbor. The environmentalists will freak.

Posted: Apr 15 2009 04:27 pm

This isn't an anti-liberal thing though, it's an anti retardedly out of control government spending and government expansion, especially since it's only hurting the middle class they promise they're helping.

Joined: Apr 09 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3112

I agree with a lot of what Obama's doing, but I think the tax raise is one of the things I disagree with (you could make more money just by shutting the "Bermuda Mailbox" rule down), so I could sympathize with what these guys are feeling, but it's a completely obnoxious PETA-like response to a serious issue. I expect to see a lot of "nazi", "socialist", etc. stuff being tossed around that doesn't really add respectability to their claims. I also have to wonder why these people are so angry that only the richest 3% get a tax raise, and even then it's about 9-10% less than what it was for most of Reagan's presidency.

I just really don't like these forms of protests where you try to draw comparisons to a time with parallels that don't really line up.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Apr 15 2009 04:40 pm

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

This isn't an anti-liberal thing though, it's an anti retardedly out of control government spending and government expansion, especially since it's only hurting the middle class they promise they're helping.

...isn't that liberalism in a nutshell? I mean, I'm as nonpartisan as the next person, but isn't "spend a lot of money and expand the government" kind of the whole liberal thing?

I think The American People (tm) are okay with a bit of government spending, even a good amount of it, but things seem to be going a bit too far. That's the problem when one philosophy goes too far.

Posted: Apr 15 2009 05:04 pm

UsaSatsui wrote:

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

This isn't an anti-liberal thing though, it's an anti retardedly out of control government spending and government expansion, especially since it's only hurting the middle class they promise they're helping.

...isn't that liberalism in a nutshell? I mean, I'm as nonpartisan as the next person, but isn't "spend a lot of money and expand the government" kind of the whole liberal thing?

I think The American People (tm) are okay with a bit of government spending, even a good amount of it, but things seem to be going a bit too far. That's the problem when one philosophy goes too far.

It's anti-socialist, not anti-liberal. Liberals are involved in the tea parties too.

Joined: Apr 09 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3112

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

UsaSatsui wrote:

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

This isn't an anti-liberal thing though, it's an anti retardedly out of control government spending and government expansion, especially since it's only hurting the middle class they promise they're helping.

...isn't that liberalism in a nutshell? I mean, I'm as nonpartisan as the next person, but isn't "spend a lot of money and expand the government" kind of the whole liberal thing?

I think The American People (tm) are okay with a bit of government spending, even a good amount of it, but things seem to be going a bit too far. That's the problem when one philosophy goes too far.

It's anti-socialist, not anti-liberal. Liberals are involved in the tea parties too.

So socialism went from being state controlling of production and means to meaning spending more money than previous administrations? People need to slow down with their labels. "Liberal" used to mean the same thing as "Libertarian" does now but now means something completely different.

Instead of just seeing something, labeling it, then freaking out with our catchy little signboards, I'd prefer to see someone validate a their opinions with more than two sentences and a corny-ass protest. I for one immediately shut out any opinion that involves inflammatory "with us or against us" or "no blood for oil" words and slogans in favor of just a calm, rationable debate with a true knowledge of history and sociology.

Oh, fuck it- "I GOT MY GENES AT CONCEPTION WOOOOH!"

Posted: Apr 15 2009 05:33 pm

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

This isn't an anti-liberal thing though, it's an anti retardedly out of control government spending and government expansion, especially since it's only hurting the middle class they promise they're helping.

Well its not anti-liberal technically, but the whole thing IS being funded, supported, and exposed by mostly conservative people/organizations. Which is totally fine of course, free speech and all, but it irritates me the way they're trying to sell this as a spontanious, grassroots movement when a lot of it is partisan protest. Which again I don't have any problem with, I just don't appreciate the misrepresentation.

As for the issue itself...undecided. Obama's got a hell of a mountain to climb, and not much time to do it. While I don't LIKE all of the spending and such going on, I understand what he's trying to do and agree with the theory, although the execution of the bailout was pretty fucking botched.

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

I support it, but it sort of defeats the purpose when most of the people who would protest are stuck in an office working during the whole thing - like me. The one in Chicago was near the Daley Center, and there was a chance I would be going there today if the jury finished deliberating and the verdict was about to be read in the trial I've been working on the past two months, but no dice today. I was planning on participating in some way if that was the case. I could have always went during my lunch break, but I had to stay close to my computer in case I got an email from one of my attorneys stating that the jury reached a decision. I need to see the end of this trial....before it moves on to the appellate courts....

From the pictures I've seen, it looked like mostly anti-Obama Republicans attended:

http://www.foundingbloggers.com/wordpress/2009/04/breaking-chicago-tax-day-tea-party-pictures/

Some of those pics are hilarious, especially the one with the Obama symbol over the Prez's face like a pirate's eyepatch.

Joined: Apr 09 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3112

Shouldn't all those kids be in school?

Posted: Apr 15 2009 11:28 pm

Ahaha those are funny, and some of them are even clever.

Only one that really pisses me off is "The American taxpayers are the Jews for Obama's ovens." Really guy? Was a Holocaust reference REALLY necessary to make your point Rolling Eyes

. (Spoiler: no, it wasn't.)

They really needed to come up with a better rally cry than "tea bagging" though lol. Makes me snicker every time I see it. Immature I know, but there you go.

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

Posted: Apr 17 2009 03:55 pm

SoldierHawk wrote:

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

This isn't an anti-liberal thing though, it's an anti retardedly out of control government spending and government expansion, especially since it's only hurting the middle class they promise they're helping.

Well its not anti-liberal technically, but the whole thing IS being funded, supported, and exposed by mostly conservative people/organizations. Which is totally fine of course, free speech and all, but it irritates me the way they're trying to sell this as a spontanious, grassroots movement when a lot of it is partisan protest. Which again I don't have any problem with, I just don't appreciate the misrepresentation.

Me either. I mean Bush spent a bunch of money on the war, on the first set of bailouts and so on. So this is definably not an anti-liberal/democrat protest. In my opinion each side is involved/at fault for the overspending. Making it look like it is all a liberal thing is just dumb in my opinion.

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

IceWarm wrote:

Me either. I mean Bush spent a bunch of money on the war, on the first set of bailouts and so on. So this is definably not an anti-liberal/democrat protest. In my opinion each side is involved/at fault for the overspending. Making it look like it is all a liberal thing is just dumb in my opinion.

Michelle Malkin agrees with you & Jeebus in her column today:

Malkin wrote:

If only the condescending cable TV anchors at CNN and MSNBC had paused from wallowing in gutter puns about tea bags, they might have reported an even more significant phenomenon: Tea Party protesters were as vocal in their criticism of Republicans as they were of Democrats. In Salt Lake City, Utah, a crowd of 2,000 repeatedly booed GOP Sens. Orrin Hatch and Bob Bennett, who both supported the $700 billion TARP bailout, and protested GOP Gov. Jon Huntsman's decision to accept $1.6 billion in porky stimulus funds.

In Sacramento, Tea Party organizer Mark Meckler singled out California GOP Chair Ron Nehring for waffling on proposed $16 billion tax hikes. The crowd of 5,000 greeted Nehring -- who unsuccessfully tried to hitch his wagon to the Tea Party movement -- with a roar of boos and catcalls. Speaker after speaker lambasted Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger for abandoning fiscal-conservative principles. The loudest chant of the day: "Throw them out."

In Madison, Wis., GOP Rep. Paul Ryan -- hyped as a conservative "rock star" -- was well received. But I heard from staunch fiscal-conservative constituents who refused to be silent about Ryan's complicity. He gave one of the most hysterical speeches in the rush to pass TARP last fall; voted for the auto bailout; and voted with the Barney Frank-Nancy Pelosi AIG bonus-bashing stampede. Milwaukee blogger Nick Schweitzer wrote: "He ought to be apologizing for his previous votes, not pretending he was being responsible the entire time, but I don't see one bit of regret for what he did previously. And I'll be damned if I'm going to let him get away with it."

Other Tea Party participants pointed out that Newt Gingrich, who jumped aboard the bandwagon, flip-flopped on TARP in the space of a week last September and made common cause with Al Gore and Nancy Pelosi in ads calling for immediate action on "climate change."

http://townhall.com/columnists/MichelleMalkin/2009/04/17/million_taxpayer_march?page=full&comments=true

Joined: Apr 21 2009 Posts: 1

I think that Tea Parties are just a way of excercising our first ammendment rights, so they're okay in my book.

Posted: Apr 25 2009 01:38 am

I think they're sort of a huge waste of time.

I mean... there are plenty more productive ways to alert your representatives that you're pissed off at their out-of-control behavior. Just how many of those people voted in the last Congressional election, anyway? How many of them keep electing their same Congressmen because they think he/she is doing a great job, and it's everyone else's Congressmen that screw everything up?

They can mail as many tea bags and stage as many protests as they want, and I'm sure it makes them feel like they're really getting involved. If they don't back up their rhetoric in November, though, it's just a waste of time.

Posted: Apr 25 2009 10:53 am

April was the time to back up the rhetoric by not paying taxes. Civil disobedience only works if you're actually disobedient. That also means you have to accept the consequences and go to jail. If you pay bail or fines to get out then it's an admission that you were wrong in breaking the law, and your goal is to show that the government or the law is wrong.

Posted: Apr 25 2009 11:04 am

Civil disobedience is still disobedience ! Mad

Posted: Apr 25 2009 11:36 am

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

April was the time to back up the rhetoric by not paying taxes. Civil disobedience only works if you're actually disobedient. That also means you have to accept the consequences and go to jail. If you pay bail or fines to get out then it's an admission that you were wrong in breaking the law, and your goal is to show that the government or the law is wrong.

Yeah, you're right, but how many of those people were really willing to risk jail time? Every single one of those people out there "teabagging" probably filed their income taxes, and then blew their tax refund on a plasma TV.

Posted: Apr 26 2009 11:56 pm

A pathetic astroturfing that misses the point on matters of symbolism and actual execution of civil disobedience. Utterly worthless, which is a shame because it belies what I believe is the underlying anxiety of people, which is the genuinely terrifying out of control spending going on in washington.

Gets even worse with the empty threats from Texas about secession.

Posted: Apr 27 2009 08:43 am

While the execution of this was pretty terrible since they all undoubtedly paid their taxes, it's still a step in the right direction. It's nice to see that people have finally gotten pissed off enough at their government to pretend to do something, so the next step will be actually doing something.