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Posted: Mar 12 2009 01:02 pm

Apparently President Obama had pledged to improve foreign relations, but apparently he's a total dick. When he met with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, gifts were exchanged. Here's how it went down:

Brown's gifts to the President Obama:

- an ornamental desk pen holder made from the oak timbers of Victorian anti-slavery Naval vessel HMS Gannet
- framed commission for HMS Resolute, a vessel that came to symbolise Anglo-US peace when it was saved from ice packs by Americans
- first edition set of the seven-volume classic biography of Churchill by Sir Martin Gilbert

Brown's gifts to the Obama daughters:
- a TopShop dress for each of the daughters and matching necklace
- Six books by British childrens' authors as yet unpublished in the USA

Obama's gift to PM Brown:
- 25 DVDs of classic American movies, including Citizen Kane, Singing in the Rain, and Star Wars: A New Hope.

Obama's gift to PM Brown's sons:
- A model of Marine One for each of the sons from the White House gift shop. Retail value: $15.

To add further insult to Obama's cheapass gifts, the DVDs were in NTSC format, and will not play on British DVD players, which use PAL. On top of that, Brown is half-blind and watching television for prolonged periods gives him massive headaches.

THANK GOD THE SO-CALLED ARROGANCE OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION IS OVER! ALL HAIL THE NEW AMERICAN HOSPITALITY!

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

Yeah, that pissed me off, even if it's just a protocol issue. I think it angered me so much because the gift Brown gave him was so incredibly great, and had so many layers of significance. Meanwhile, President Barry could have just sent Michelle to the White House Gift Shop for the stuff he gave Brown.

Syd Lexia wrote:

To add further insult to Obama's cheapass gifts, the DVDs were in NTSC format, and will not play on British DVD players, which use PAL.

Ha! I didn't know that part of it. They didn't even know about region differences? Between this and Secretary Clinton's mistranslation on that ridiculous "reset" button she gave to the Russian Foreign Minister, this administration is really flubbing the details.

Syd Lexia wrote:

On top of that, Brown is half-blind and watching television for prolonged periods gives him massive headaches.

Oh yeah, I forgot about his vision problem. Didn't know watching television gave him headaches, though. Geez, does Obama's staff do any research or put in any work on these things?

People wanted to know why us GOPers were decrying Obama's lack of experience during the election? It's because of stupid mistakes like this, and how he hasn't properly vetted his Cabinet nominees. His naivete is ridiculous.

Posted: Mar 12 2009 01:10 pm

Yeah, I heard about that the other day. All I could do was wince.

Although, looking on the bright side, it may not be QUITE as bad as it sounds. Movies, especially classics like those, are a huge part of American culture for better or worse, and help define certain time periods. Perhaps he didn't know about Brown's ailment (I know I didn't), or that the PM watches TV anyway *shrug*

No excuse for the Marine One replica, though. Unless the kids maybe got a ride on it first, then that might be cooler as a souvineer or whatever, but still. Rolling Eyes

I wouldn't call it arrogant, though. Just not thinking properly about how stuff would com across. (Or maybe he wasn't expecting the kind of gift Brown gave them.) Whatever the case and however it worked out, though, it sure dosen't look very good. *sighs and facepalms* I wonder if the Brits are actually offended?

EDIT: after doing a bit more research, now I'm really befuddled. Apparently the White House seriously cut down on the number/prestige of the meetings Obama will have with Brown. Downing Street isn't commenting (neither is the WH, for that matter), but now I'm starting to wonder if something didn't happen either between them personally, or diplomatically between the countries that we aren't aware of yet. I brushed the question off about the gifts and chalked it up to inexperience...but c'mon. Even Obama knows better than that. *I* know better than that simply from a logic perspective. (The regional thing on the DVDs I'm sure is a staff error of course, though.) Still...all of these things piling up together seem to be sending a deliberate message. There MUST be something behind the scenes here that we aren't seeing.

I'm not attempting to make excuses for Obama here, it just seems really, really weird after reading all this stuff. I dunno.

Posted: Mar 12 2009 01:39 pm

Yeah, there could be political motiviations. Obama could intentionally be distancing himself from Britain, America's strongest ally in the war on terror, in hopes of making nice with other countries. Or he could be distancing himself from Brown in the hopes that Brown will lose in the next election cycle.

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

I think Brown & the Labour Party already have a low probability of winning the upcoming elections. David Cameron and the Conservative Party have been tracking well against them in the polls for about a year now. Not sure if the Liberal Party is going to be a factor, they usually haven't been one since the Depression, but if I remember correctly, they've had a resurgence in recent years.

Regardless if Brown is an outgoing PM or not, you have to give him the proper respect that the office dictates, though.

Posted: Mar 12 2009 01:45 pm

Syd Lexia wrote:

Yeah, there could be political motivations. Obama could intentionally be distancing himself from Britain, America's strongest ally in the war on terror, in hopes of making nice with other countries. Or he could be distancing himself from Brown in the hopes that Brown will lose in the next election cycle.

Possibly. WHY he would want to do that, I don't know.

I will say, if this was Bush, I would shrug it off and roll my eyes. Obama...is not nearly as thoughtless or clueless as he was, though. I think Obama really knows politics, and he really understands symbolism--to the point where, if some aide just dumped these gifts on him to give and he thought they were insulting, he would have held off on giving the gifts at ALL, and said some more politically correct version of "they're in the mail/coming soon/have them before you leave/etc." I mean, maybe that wasn't an option of course under the circumstances, but still.

I stand by the idea that Obama knows what he's doing, for better or for worse. At the moment, until this is explained or he gives some kind of apology...that's a lot more worrying to me than someone I can write off as an idiot. I still trust that Obama is trying his best to do the right thing (yeah, yeah, I know), but a little clarification on exactly wtf is up with this would be awesome. Anytime now.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Syd, I have been laughing at this for the last 5 minutes or so.

Why the fuck are they exchanging gifts? Who the fuck knows what an appropriate gift from one leader to another is? I assure you that the leaders themselves didn't pick this shit out. Also when exchanging gifts someone is always going to do a better job unless it is agreed that an even exchange of gift cards is appropriate.

I will say that the NTSC/PAL issue is fucking hilarious but other than that the situation itself SHOULD be vapid not fucking Christmas or birthday time.

Posted: Mar 12 2009 02:00 pm

GPFontaine wrote:

Syd, I have been laughing at this for the last 5 minutes or so.

Why the fuck are they exchanging gifts? Who the fuck knows what an appropriate gift from one leader to another is? I assure you that the leaders themselves didn't pick this shit out. Also when exchanging gifts someone is always going to do a better job unless it is agreed that an even exchange of gift cards is appropriate.

I will say that the NTSC/PAL issue is fucking hilarious but other than that the situation itself SHOULD be vapid not fucking Christmas or birthday time.

Thank you for that bucket full of reason, GP. Now the conspiracy theories have stopped banging around my head for awhile. I needed that. Smile

The PAL issue IS pretty classic, isn't it? Laughing

(Although, I've never tried--IS there even a way to easily get a large amount of PAL DVDs out here?)(Oh wait...if you're the President there probably is a way regardless, huh...nvm.)

Posted: Mar 12 2009 02:03 pm

Leaders ALWAYS exchange gifts, it's a gesture of friendship and has been a BASIC FUCKING TENET of diplomacy for hundereds of years. You can go to any presidential library and see gifts that were given to our presidents by other world leaders. Obama may not have personally picked the gifts out, but he was the one who personally handed them to Brown, and he obviously had final say over what was going to be given. Bush caused similar controversy when he first met with Brown in 2007. Bush gave Brown one of the fur-trimmed brown bomber jackets the former president himself enjoyed wearing. Maybe not the best gift to give a man who is always seen wearing business suits, but at least it was a personal symbol of friendship from President Bush, and President Bush wasn't showered with rare artifacts by Brown either.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Syd Lexia wrote:

Leaders ALWAYS exchange gifts, it's a gesture of friendship and has been a BASIC FUCKING TENET of diplomacy for hundereds of years. You can go to any presidential library and see gifts that were given to our presidents by other world leaders. Obama may not have personally picked the gifts out, but he was the one who personally handed them to Brown, and he obviously had final say over what was going to be given. Bush caused similar controversy when he first met with Brown in 2007. Bush gave Brown one of the fur-trimmed brown bomber jackets the former president himself enjoyed wearing. Maybe not the best gift to give a man who is always seen wearing business suits, but at least it was a personal symbol of friendship from President Bush, and President Bush wasn't showered with rare artifacts by Brown either.

It is a tradition that should change.

You know why we use computers to record shit instead of pens and paper now? Because we have fucking moved on.

These are two grownup men who should be concerned with the lives of the people they represent, not the gifts that they give each other.

You say it is politics, I say it is corporate perks that need to go away.

Posted: Mar 12 2009 02:09 pm

I disagree completely with you, your analogy is baseless, your statement is grandstanding, and I will not vote for you for president.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Syd Lexia wrote:

I disagree completely with you, your analogy is baseless, your statement is grandstanding, and I will not vote for you for president.

It is a good thing for me that thread was locked long ago Wink

Posted: Mar 12 2009 03:00 pm

If was, errr, when I become leader of a powerful nation, if another world leader gave me DVDs, BluRays, or even videogames, they would get a huge boost from me politically. But, those are my tastes and interests.

If you can't find somthing significant or symbolic to give, then find something that is in the person's interests.

Strangely enough, PM Brown is a huge fan of Heavy Metal, so Obama would have been better off giving him Autographed CDs from GNR, Metallica, and the like.

Posted: Mar 12 2009 03:05 pm

Knyte wrote:

If was, errr, when I become leader of a powerful nation, if another world leader gave me DVDs, BluRays, or even videogames, they would get a huge boost from me politically. But, those are my tastes and interests.

It would have to be something interesting though, not something that you could easily by yourself. Like a mint-in-box ROB or a Fairchild Channel F.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

All this talk of gift giving made me recall:

Title: Title: Title: Title Joined: Sep 18 2008 Posts: 258

GPFontaine wrote:

All this talk of gift giving made me recall:

*dick in box video*

A video that overstayed its welcome, to be sure.

I'm waiting for a president to give a foreign leader an "I <3 New York" t-shirt as a gift. I would approve.

Title: Titlating Joined: Dec 17 2007 Posts: 5042

Well to be fair some of the gifts from Brown represented Britain and perhaps Obama wanted to respond in favor with American gifts. It's very possible that Obama's opinion is the same as Gp's in that it's an outdated custom and gave him any gift instead of coming off as disrespectful.

Should he of put more thought and research into his gifts? Yes but that is all in hindsight and all that can be done now is for him to apologize and move on. This is really a non issue that hopefully will just be forgotten soon enough.

And Syd do not give conspiracy theories any consideration. The idea that Obama would be distancing himself from America's largest ally is fucking ridiculous and giving it any validity is only embarrassing yourself. You are better than that.

Posted: Mar 12 2009 04:57 pm

Distancing America from Britain, especially from a British administration that supported Bush, is not necessarily ridiculous in the grand scheme of things. It shows Middle Eastern countries that Obama is genuinely interested in opening a dialogue and that he won't be pursuing the same kind of fruitless negotiations that past leaders have. It also would impress all his socialist idols in France and Germany.

Posted: Mar 12 2009 06:59 pm

Hard to say anything about this. On one hand, I'm kinda pissed, but on the other, I think this is just more "OBAMA SUX!!"

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Syd isn't there a better than average chance that this is being read into way too much?

I might be blind, but I really don't see gift giving on a personal level as a statement about our country's alliances.

Title: Titlating Joined: Dec 17 2007 Posts: 5042

Give me a muffin basket or its WAAAAAR!!!!!!!1111111ONE

Posted: Mar 12 2009 08:19 pm

Optimist With Doubts wrote:

Give me a muffin basket or its WAAAAAR!!!!!!!1111111ONE

At least Obama, didn't just scream "This is AMERICA!!!!" and kick Brown into the bottomless pit that's in the White House's backyard.

Posted: Mar 12 2009 08:21 pm

GPFontaine wrote:

Syd isn't there a better than average chance that this is being read into way too much?

I might be blind, but I really don't see gift giving on a personal level as a statement about our country's alliances.

You're absolutely right. It could in fact just be poor diplomacy. But this is a man who promised us he was better, a man who was strongly critical of Bush's foreign policy. From him to fail at foreign relations on such a basic level himself is embarassing. I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt by arguing that it might have been intentional. Hell, I could even sympathize if it were intentional. If it wasn't, well, he's an idiot. Oh well. Ain't our first idiot president, won't be the last.

Posted: Mar 12 2009 08:24 pm

GPFontaine wrote:

I might be blind, but I really don't see gift giving on a personal level as a statement about our country's alliances.

I have to agree with that. And that is coming from a Republican just so there is no assumed bias. In terms of the U.S. supporting the U.K or vice versa I doubt there is any major impact in diplomatic relations because of an exchange of gifts.

Posted: Mar 13 2009 09:00 am

No, the US and UK will always be friends no matter what crappy gifts are exchanged. Living in England right now, I'm tending to air on the side of the arguement that Obama just doesn't give a shit about Brown because Brown won't be around for much longer. US/UK relations will never be strained, so why bother kissing up to a guy who has a pretty low approval rating in his own country (a majority of Brits hate Brown and think it's kind of criminal how he became PM) and is of the same political party that kissed Bush's ass; something Obama definitely wants to distance his administration from.