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Posted: Feb 19 2009 11:20 am

Stormtroopers are not only in the past but they are also in the future.
For example you have hitler and his stormtroopers. Then you have the imperial, clone, and jet stormtroopers in the starwars galaxy.[/img]

Posted: Feb 19 2009 11:22 am

um, ok. you should probably just put that as your sig instead of just starting a topic, but whatev

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

StormTrooper2011 wrote:

Stormtroopers are not only in the past but they are also in the future.
For example you have hitler and his stormtroopers. Then you have the imperial, clone, and jet stormtroopers in the starwars galaxy.[/img]

Star Wars opens with the following text on screen
"A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...."

So that means you have German troops named Stormtroopers in the past and you have Imperial Stormtroopers in the past.

How exactly are there Stormtroopers in the future?

Posted: Feb 19 2009 11:42 am

Time is cyclical though, so the past is also the future.

Posted: Feb 19 2009 11:46 am

GP, Syd...you guys just *blew my mind.* Shocked

That was an awesome point though, GP. I (like most people, I think) think of Star Wars as "futuristic," but I guess its really not.

Posted: Feb 19 2009 11:54 am

Well, think of it this way. In the beginning, there was nothing. Then suddenly, there was something. The origin of the universe is one of the greatest philosophical and scientific problems we face. One theory is that time is not linear, but cyclical. Thus, the supercondensed matter that exploded in the Big Bang and formed our universe was the same matter left over from the implosion of the same universe. If that were true, then we were here on this same forums eons before, and we will be here again.

Posted: Feb 19 2009 11:56 am

The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the Third Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past, a wind rose. The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Syd Lexia wrote:

Time is cyclical though, so the past is also the future.

An interesting point.

Is time cyclical or is it rewound and replayed over and over again?

Lets assume that the universe was created via a "Big Bang". Mass explodes outward until it is slowed, stopped and eventually pulled back towards a center point via gravitational pull.

On our ride in or out, we barely notice this since we live for a short time. But over the grand scheme of time and the cosmos, we eventually start moving so fast back towards the center into a black hole that time begins to go in reverse.

Once all the matter is gathered back up, another "Big Bang" occurs and we start over.

But did we just do it in the future? If we were going in reverse of time, we were traveling to the past. So the events do happen again, but in the past.

Posted: Feb 19 2009 11:57 am

username wrote:

The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the Third Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past, a wind rose. The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.

Robert Jordan ftw. This is one of my favorite quotes in all of fantasy literature. Smile

Posted: Feb 19 2009 12:24 pm

If the Stormtroopers are basically the Clone Troopers from the prequels how come they can't aim for shit in the original(classic) trilogy? The Clone Troopers kicked ass in episodes 2 and 3 but in episodes 4-6 they just sucked. Did Jango Fett's DNA sample go bad or something? Did the Stormtroopers forget how to aim, or did they stop giving a shit?

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

IceWarm wrote:

If the Stormtroopers are basically the Clone Troopers from the prequels how come they can't aim for shit in the original(classic) trilogy? The Clone Troopers kicked ass in episodes 2 and 3 but in episodes 4-6 they just sucked. Did Jango Fett's DNA sample go bad or something? Did the Stormtroopers forget how to aim, or did they stop giving a shit?

Having your mind controlled most likely has bad side effects.

It seemed as though the order to kill the Jedi fucked with their ability to shoot a target.

Except of course when they shot Luke's aunt and uncle.

Posted: Feb 19 2009 12:32 pm

Black Zarak would know for sure, but I believe that in Episodes IV-VI, the Stormtroopers are real people and not clones. I imagine this is due to the fact that Empire built up massive deficits with an ill-conceived economic stimulus package and could no longer afford to use clones. That, or they were trying to reduce unemployment.

Posted: Feb 19 2009 12:35 pm

Syd Lexia wrote:

Black Zarak would know for sure, but I believe that in Episodes IV-VI, the Stormtroopers are real people and not clones. I imagine this is due to the fact that Empire built up massive deficits with an ill-conceived economic stimulus package and could no longer afford to use clones. That, or they were trying to reduce unemployment.

they probably were real people, considering boba fett was a little kid in episode II and there was only a 3-5 year span between episode II + III and about an 18 year span between III + IV. so, the original clones were probably old by then.

Posted: Feb 19 2009 02:11 pm

Well, there's a few answers for this question, some in universe, some not...

The in-universe answer is that by the time of A New Hope, the material taken from Jango had degraded to the point of being unusable for further cloning and other templates were starting to be used to create clones, most if not all inferior to Jango. At the same time, the Empire began recruiting non clone soldiers to the navy and army, which is why Luke is whining about how Uncle Owen won't let him join the academy and where Biggs disappeared to at first before defecting to the Rebellion.

The non universe answer is that in Episodes II and III, the clones are basically the good guys so they can kick ass and take names, whereas in IV to VI, Stormtroopers are the enemy and can't be killing main characters left and right.

Joined: Feb 24 2006 Posts: 2578

Sensible answers, Black Zarak, especially the second one. But another likely one is that George Lucas hadn't really thought out what the "Clone Wars" actually were until he started working on the prequels. So when he ultimately decided to make them all stormtroopery, there was a bit of a plot gap that got glossed over.

Posted: Feb 19 2009 03:28 pm

GPFontaine wrote:

we eventually start moving so fast back towards the center into a black hole that time begins to go in reverse.

According to Einstein the whole "being so fast time starts to go in reverse" thing only works for Superman or if you have to get humpback whales from the past.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Tyop wrote:

GPFontaine wrote:

we eventually start moving so fast back towards the center into a black hole that time begins to go in reverse.

According to Einstein the whole "being so fast time starts to go in reverse" thing only works for Superman or if you have to get humpback whales from the past.

Yeah but he is dead and I'm not.

So he loses this battle.

Posted: Feb 19 2009 03:40 pm

Posted: Feb 19 2009 04:00 pm

DarkMaze wrote:

Sensible answers, Black Zarak, especially the second one. But another likely one is that George Lucas hadn't really thought out what the "Clone Wars" actually were until he started working on the prequels. So when he ultimately decided to make them all stormtroopery, there was a bit of a plot gap that got glossed over.

This is true. If you believe Lucas, he's had the prequels laid out in great detail since the 70's, but considering how he continues to change things whenever he sees fit, it looks like he's still not sure about how everything fits together.

Also, in the Stormtrooper's defense, they're typically a lot more effective in EU sources. Like I said, they can't be wasting main characters left and right on screen (except Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru...), but just off-screen, they're kicking ass.

Posted: Feb 19 2009 04:01 pm

I like the theory I stated earlier better because it doesn't involve time going in reverse.

Banned Joined: Sep 13 2008 Posts: 3129

Syd Lexia wrote:

Well, think of it this way. In the beginning, there was nothing. Then suddenly, there was something. The origin of the universe is one of the greatest philosophical and scientific problems we face. One theory is that time is not linear, but cyclical. Thus, the supercondensed matter that exploded in the Big Bang and formed our universe was the same matter left over from the implosion of the same universe. If that were true, then we were here on this same forums eons before, and we will be here again.

You really make use of that degree in philosophy

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Syd Lexia wrote:

I like the theory I stated earlier better because it doesn't involve time going in reverse.

An interesting thing about time going in reverse.

The person watching from the inside is going backwards.

The person watching from the outside is still seeing things progress... but things are progressing in rewind.

This was captured perfectly in Space Balls.

Posted: Feb 19 2009 04:35 pm

Can we go back to pop culturey stuff now? Philosophy hurts my head. I'll even start: Who'd win in a fight between Gandalf and Master Chief?

Joined: Sep 22 2008 Posts: 289

ThatGuy wrote:

Can we go back to pop culturey stuff now? Philosophy hurts my head. I'll even start: Who'd win in a fight between Gandalf and Master Chief?

John McClane

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

ThatGuy wrote:

Can we go back to pop culturey stuff now? Philosophy hurts my head. I'll even start: Who'd win in a fight between Gandalf and Master Chief?

Gandalf.

The dude just can't be killed. Even if he got shot, he would just ride an eagle back from the underworld and strike Chief in the face with his cane.

But based on Syd's theory, no one wins because time is cyclical and the battle will rage on forever and ever and ever.