SydLexia.com - The Forums :: View topic - Gaza-Israeli Conflict

Posted: Jan 16 2009 12:07 am

Is anybody following the most recent episode in the military acts of the holy land?

Israel just fucks everbody's shit up.

I've just started following it, maybe someone with more knowledge on Israel can chime in.

Joined: Jun 20 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 802

I don't even know what's going on to tell you the truth... I should probably get on that.

"Israel just fucks everybody's shit up" ? That's a new one.

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

Just mentioning a divisive issue like this is inviting a flame war.

Posted: Jan 16 2009 12:35 am

I didn't intend it to, it's a word "event", I just happen to take interest in global conflicts such as this, I have no bias towards either side to be honest.

I've just noticed that whenever Israel gets into a war, they tend to win.

Posted: Jan 16 2009 12:53 am

Isreal purchases our equipment and whatnot, so they tend to have a pretty big edge.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Jan 16 2009 01:26 am

I say only one thing about it.

If you launch a rocket at another country, you have no right to bitch when the shove that rocket up your ass.

Posted: Jan 16 2009 01:29 am

UsaSatsui wrote:

I say only one thing about it.

If you launch a rocket at another country, you have no right to bitch when the shove that rocket up your ass.

Israel's ok with shit as long as they aren't getting attacked, no matter how small the attack, they will fuck you up. "slap my wrist, and I burry you alive".

I'm no on either side, I think it was pretty stupid to launch missles at someone much more powerful they were.

Posted: Jan 16 2009 01:58 am

if you have interest in global conflicts, worry about the darfur situation instead.

Joined: Aug 24 2005 Location: Mount Holly, NJ Posts: 1062

Here's my impression of the latest round of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as it would have played out in Counter Strike:

EyeDeeEff is away from the computer
HaMass is away from the computer
HaMass: hello?
Hamass: sweet, free frags
HaMass attacks civilians
HaMass attacks EyeDeeEff
EyeDeeEff: wtf
HaMass: UN can't ban me!
EyeDeeEff attacks HaMass
HaMass: wtf hax
EyeDeeEff: lol
HaMass: where is admin?!

For real though, I understand that both sides of this conflict are tired of it, and I understand that the Palestinian civilians bear the weight of the Arab-Israeli fight. But seriously... Hamas is your government. Hamas launched rockets into Israel, breaking the ceasefire AGAIN. Hamas wants to fight. Hamas is taking refuge in population centers. Israel, as far as I can tell, is just sick of having rockets rain down every other day or so when a ceasefire is supposed to be in place.

It sucks major ass for the Palestinians living in the Strip, cuz they have no control over it. But as I've said again and again... and as Hamas and company should have learned from the Six-Day War, you can't provoke a well-armed country, get your ass handed to you, and then claim you're the victims.

Right now, there's a bunch of protests on campus in support of the Palestinians. That's cool and all, but the argument that Israel can't defend itself or that Israel's response is unjustified is stupid IMO. If I'm the Israeli PM, and ONE rocket falls in Israeli territory during a ceasefire, I'm doing my best to wipe out the group responsible*

*Please note that by "group responsible," I mean Hamas. Not the Palestinians. Ultimately, the only way you'll see peace in that region is two states, Israel and Palestine, with Jerusalem split up the middle like Berlin used to be. Unfortunately, that's NEVER going to happen as long as the Palestinians choose to be governed by a group that (1) carries out attacks targeting civilians, (2) has an explicit policy to destroy Israel, and (3) has the ideological and logistic support of another country (i.e. Iran) that is dedicated to the same thing. As long as Israel's existence is threatened, Israel can (and justifiably so) fight back. One of the real tragedies is that Fatah, which admittedly also has terrorist ties (just not as extreme as Hamas) is open to a peace deal with Israel. Hamas was voted into office a few years ago, though.

Posted: Jan 16 2009 03:07 am

Thanks Kubo, that cleared things up for me. I've been confused about the whole thing myself.

Joined: Aug 24 2005 Location: Mount Holly, NJ Posts: 1062

ross_rifle113 wrote:

Thanks Kubo, that cleared things up for me. I've been confused about the whole thing myself.

Usually, when shit flares up again over there, it's because one side broke a cease-fire. Not to sound one-sided, but it's usually Hamas, as Israel has no reason to try to attack Palestinians. Hamas, on the other hand, is upset (along with their buddies in Iran and sometimes Lebanon) that Israel won land in Gaza, the West Bank, and Sinai during the Six-Day War. So usually, they fire off some Katushas, get stomped back into Gaza city, and proclaim victory for surviving the Israeli attack.

I guess this time, Israel is done fucking around. I have to admit, I'm surprised they're going ahead with their operations like they are. Usually int'l pressure makes them fall back into Israel. They must be really pissed.

Posted: Jan 16 2009 03:18 am

Yeah, I remember studying the whole creation of Israel in History, so I know the whole land argument. But yeah, the whole situation over there is fucked.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Kubo, well said.

As for the question about "why does Israel always seem to kick ass?"

Every adult citizen is required to join the army. Unlike America, they don't try to dodge the call. They look forward to it. It is their chance to serve. Everyone who is there wants to be there. This means that average citizens of Israel are all formally trained ex military. The entire country works together in that regard.

Read up on: Krav Maga and picture an entire country knowing that shit.

They do buy some of America's equipment, but they design their own as well.

Posted: Jan 16 2009 09:41 am

A friend of mines Dad worked at United Defense when they built an interesting vehicle for the Israeles. He didn't work on the project directly but his direct coworker did. It was essentially a small wheeled tank, with medium armour, that could do speeds of 85mph or so. Now here is why, it was outfitted with some huge artillery piece, and outriggers that could deploy and stabilize it in less than a minute. After that, it could fire in under 3 minutes at least 2 shells, then pick up and go in again less than a minute. Like has been said, they don't fuck around.

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

As has been said by Israeli officials many times since the cease-fire's been broken, the main problem is that Israel works from a position of self defense and a desire for peace, while Palestinian terrorists work from a position where the goal is the destruction of Israel. It's kind of hard to work out a peace deal when one side won't stop until the other side is exterminated.

GPFontaine wrote:

Every adult citizen is required to join the army. Unlike America, they don't try to dodge the call.

There's no longer a draft in America, so there's no need to "dodge the call". The only situation that might come up now is for "stop loss", and that's for people who have already served.

Israel is a much smaller country, so the draft is more necessary and feasible. We are large enough that we can rely on the support of volunteers - inherently people who want to be there.

I'm glad this hasn't turned into a tenacious debate. So, here's some interesting, funny, political cartoons on the subject:

Posted: Jan 16 2009 01:12 pm

I'm not touching this one. Let's just say they've both committed their fair share of atrocities, as well as both have valid reasons for hating each other. If there were a bunch of displaced Russians after the war, and the UN said, hey America you guys gotta leave your homes because we need a place for these Russians to settle, we would be a little upset. At the same time if Mexico were firing missiles at us every day, regardless of whether or not they killed somebody, we likely wouldn't take it lying down either.

Essentially, it's a fucked up situation I don't see being resolved anytime soon, and both sides have reason to be angry. I will say that the Jews have a much more tolerant religion, so if this cannot be solved peacefully, at least if Israel wins, there would be more tolerance of women and homosexuals in the middle east. Of course I'm not speaking of places like Dubai and Egypt.

Posted: Jan 16 2009 01:26 pm

It'll be interesting to see how the incoming presidential administration deals with the Israel situation. The Bush administration was a strong supporter of Israel, and if Obama isn't, it could spell doomsday the oft-attacked country.

Joined: Aug 24 2005 Location: Mount Holly, NJ Posts: 1062

Syd Lexia wrote:

It'll be interesting to see how the incoming presidential administration deals with the Israel situation. The Bush administration was a strong supporter of Israel, and if Obama isn't, it could spell doomsday the oft-attacked country.

My feeling is that he won't pull support from Israel. If ANY U.S. President wants a staunch ally in that region (and I mean staunch... not wavering or half-assed like Egypt or Jordan), Israel and the U.S. have to be allied.

Posted: Jan 16 2009 02:53 pm

Kubo wrote:

Syd Lexia wrote:

It'll be interesting to see how the incoming presidential administration deals with the Israel situation. The Bush administration was a strong supporter of Israel, and if Obama isn't, it could spell doomsday the oft-attacked country.

My feeling is that he won't pull support from Israel. If ANY U.S. President wants a staunch ally in that region (and I mean staunch... not wavering or half-assed like Egypt or Jordan), Israel and the U.S. have to be allied.

He won't All the presidents have been members of the CFR, Zionists, free masonss, World Bank, Isreal, the jews control banks durr hurr hurr etc etc.

Seriously though, we will probably still remain Isreal's ally for said reasons. They are more western idealistically and Repubs and Dems foreign policies are more or less the same. The dems didn't start condemning the war until it became severely unpopular in the media as a whole.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Burt Reynolds wrote:

I will say that the Jews have a much more tolerant religion...

This is a big misconception.

Most people in the middle east practice religions that are tolerant and non violent.

At their roots, Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are all non-violent religions and offer paths to peace, love, and well being.

It is the distorted twists of these religions that create hostile horrible extremist factions.

Burt, you are correct, for as long as Israel is controlled by a Jewish populace, the country will be a haven where tolerance is preached and observed by the majority of its occupants. Should Israel fall into the hands of just about any other religious or government control, it would most likely turn to a land of blood.

Posted: Jan 16 2009 03:15 pm

GPFontaine wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

I will say that the Jews have a much more tolerant religion...

This is a big misconception.

Most people in the middle east practice religions that are tolerant and non violent.

At their roots, Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are all non-violent religions and offer paths to peace, love, and well being.

It is the distorted twists of these religions that create hostile horrible extremist factions.

Burt, you are correct, for as long as Israel is controlled by a Jewish populace, the country will be a haven where tolerance is preached and observed by the majority of its occupants. Should Israel fall into the hands of just about any other religious or government control, it would most likely turn to a land of blood.

I was speaking more of in practice, as in women have much more rights in Isreal than their surrounding countries. Most religious books teach peace etc etc, it's when the books are misinterpreted or taken literally that create these extremists and oppressive societies.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Jan 16 2009 05:59 pm

Quote:

I will say that the Jews have a much more tolerant religion

GP touched on this, but I need to keep going. Islam is, at it's core, a very tolerant religion, at least towards other "people of the book". It's one of the very few that outlines that you're not supposed to screw with other religions just because they're other religions*.

The conflict is not so much Jew (the practitioner of Judaism) vs Muslim as it is Jew (the race) vs Arab.

(*Yeah, there's a reason I don't consider Bin Ladin and his cronies Muslims. They sure don't act like it)