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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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Please give me one example of how the NES game that singlehandedly saved Square is broken.
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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
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| Tebor wrote: |
| In more crude terms, if you a real virgin and were having sex for the first time, you wouldn't say: "Hey, we're going to use anal beads!!" So it makes sense as a FF virgin to play the remake. If you like that, then you can have a go with Ms. Dominatrix, Souls' older sister and also possibly mother. |
Wow...
As a product of 1980, my first experience with FF1 was with the original. I enjoyed the game. After playing newer RPG's and games I haven't had the desire to go back and replay FF1.
Could you describe what was done in remakes that improves the gameplay?
I don't really desire another round of FF1, but if it was helped out significantly... maybe I'd give it another go.
Edit: I didn't see Syd's post.
| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| Please give me one example of how the NES game that singlehandedly saved Square is broken. |
I agree that the game isn't broken. I think that advancements in gaming have made the game less desirable for a replay... but I really did like the game when I played it originally. It had a beginning, middle and end.
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agianfor
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The Japanese already made a game for this purpose, remember? Good ol' FF USA!
I kid... No one deserves that abuse...
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Valdronius
Moderator
Title: SydLexia COO
Joined: Aug 22 2005
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 4465
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I first played FF1 in 2000. I loved it.
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| Klimbatize wrote: |
| A Hispanic dude living in Arizona knows a lot of Latinas? That's fucking odd. |
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Tebor
Moderator
Title: Master of the Universe
Joined: Aug 22 2005
Location: Gotham City
Posts: 6088
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| Please give me one example of how the NES game that singlehandedly saved Square is broken. |
Don't think financial success is any sort of justification. For the time it was released, it was good. When that's what I had on the NES to play, it was good enough. Now? God no. The game's fighting mechanics are all off, the loading time between attack and the result are far too long for a cartridge based game (especially magic effects), and the A.I. is incredibly juvenile especially when it can't even adjust to an enemy's death.
But here you guys are saying "the broken mechanics make it so much more fun and less boring to play!" Sod off. The remakes not only corrects this but it improves the game overall, specifically by injecting personality into it. The NES version is alright, but it is as dull as a calculator chore in math class. At least the remakes added scenes like the bridge construction that didn't rape your memories of the old game, but instead made it feel more apart of the Final Fantasy franchise that it spawned and developed.
Look, I know this a matter of preference. This is like deciding between the original Tomb Raider and Anniversary. Each side has its pros and cons, but neither argument selling out the remake version are particularly convincing. It's too easy? Cry me an underwater kingdom, you would be l33ts. That's the most inane reason I've ever heard, especially when the question is "what FF game should I play first"!? I suggested the remake of I if you wanted to start with the first one. It's the superior version and you can decide which version to play: The original difficulty or the newer easy mode.
I also suggested IV because that's what reset the bar the FF games set themselves to. Hey, skip I-III? Fine. But if you are going to start with the first one, the better experience is going to come from the revised version because Square recognized: We fucked up, we didn't know any better, we came up with better ways to make these games. I'd make another sex comparison here, but I've realized there's far too many ways to tear that metaphor apart. 
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"If you will not tell me, I will hurt people!!!" -Nuclear Man
"Do you hear? The alpha and the omega. Death and rebirth. And as you die, so will I be reborn!" - Skeletor
8341 unread forum updates since I left (2/7/14)... Uh-oh. |
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Knyte
2010 SLF Tag Champ*
Title: Curator Of The VGM
Joined: Nov 01 2006
Location: Here I am.
Posts: 6749
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Ultimate challange?
Original FF1 on the NES. Play with 4 thieves.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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The AI shouldn't adjust to enemy deaths. Ever played an FF tactics game? Imagine a regular FF game as the same concept from a different perspective. As for speed, I believe there was a speed option.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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Ultimate challenge is one White Mage, no rat tail.
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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| Ultimate challenge is one White Mage, no rat tail. |
More boring than watching grass grow.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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Oh, absolutely. But it's a challenge.
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
Posts: 7565
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| Please give me one example of how the NES game that singlehandedly saved Square is broken. |
Elemental properties on weapons don't work
Armor ratings for an unarmed Black belt are set to level after every level up even if he's wearing armor (he should only have this if he wears no armor)
Many spells either simply don't work (TMPR), have completely different effects than they're supposed to (LOK2), or are otherwise buggy (HEL2)
A lot of this can be explained away as being things in an incredibly complex game that was literally rushed out the door so they could get on with the business of closing down. But they're still pretty significant bugs.
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Knyte
2010 SLF Tag Champ*
Title: Curator Of The VGM
Joined: Nov 01 2006
Location: Here I am.
Posts: 6749
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| UsaSatsui wrote: |
| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| Please give me one example of how the NES game that singlehandedly saved Square is broken. |
Elemental properties on weapons don't work
Armor ratings for an unarmed Black belt are set to level after every level up even if he's wearing armor (he should only have this if he wears no armor)
Many spells either simply don't work (TMPR), have completely different effects than they're supposed to (LOK2), or are otherwise buggy (HEL2)
A lot of this can be explained away as being things in an incredibly complex game that was literally rushed out the door so they could get on with the business of closing down. But they're still pretty significant bugs. |
Broken would imply that the game is unplayable or unfinishable. Yet, you can do both.
For broken game see the 1st release of Vampire: Bloodlines. There was a mission, that upon completing, the game would crash.
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
Posts: 7565
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| Quote: |
| Broken would imply that the game is unplayable or unfinishable. Yet, you can do both. |
"Broken" to me also implies "doesn't work properly"
Those are things that do not work properly.
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Pandajuice
Title: The Power of Grayskull
Joined: Oct 30 2008
Location: US and UK
Posts: 2649
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I think Tebor used the word "broken" to describe that the game has become virtually unplayable to modern audiences and I agree with him. Sure, we children of the 80s, champions of the NES era can harken back to our nostalgia to pull us through old games, but someone playing a FF game for the first time will find FF1 unplayable. The world has become spoiled by video game design improvements over the last 20 years.
Suggesting a FF newbie to play FF1 first is like suggesting a Castlevania newbie should play Simon's Quest first. Tebor's anal beads analogy is an apt one indeed.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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Well, I don't think it would be unreasonable to suggest a Castlevania newbie play Castlevania I first, so why wouldn't I suggest that someone play FF1 first? If they don't enjoy it initially, it's hard to imagine that they'll enjoy it after playing more complex games.
And I will say it again, the original NES game should not be unplayable to modern audiences. Yes, there are a select few spells that don't work correctly, but really, if you're casting LOK2 and TMPR, you're playing the game wrong anyway.
Modern RPGs are designed for lazy dolts. Someone realized that casual gamers don't like grinding for levels and items, so these days your typical RPG is basically an interactive story. You will make it through the majority of the game with minimal intentional leveling and minimal deaths. There will be maybe two or three bosses where you will need to grind levels to beat them, and one of them will be the end boss. Then, to placate the hardcore fans, they'll throw in a few super hard optional bosses that require some obtuse 40 turn strategy to beat.
In Final Fantasy I, the focus isn't on the story, it's on the adventure itself. The Marsh Cave will make you suffer. But you will beat it, and you'll be a better person for doing it. Well, unless you play the Dawn of Souls version, where the Marsh Cave is so dumbed down that you can beat it in 20 minutes.
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16136
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lol didnt mean to open up a can of worms.
ill probably start w/ff iv advance since my friend already has that on the gba. and then maybe replay it as ffiv ds.
anyhow, graphics dont matter to me. one of my favorite rpg's is dragon warrior, and those graphics arent that fantastic either. i think dragon warrior iii is better, but whatev. they are both NES games and they are very good games.
and i been working call center jobs forever, so doing the same thing over and over (i.e. grinding) doesnt bother me. in fact, im probably insane because of it
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| Klimbatize wrote: |
| I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load |
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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
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| username wrote: |
lol didnt mean to open up a can of worms.
ill probably start w/ff iv advance since my friend already has that on the gba. and then maybe replay it as ffiv ds.
anyhow, graphics dont matter to me. one of my favorite rpg's is dragon warrior, and those graphics arent that fantastic either. i think dragon warrior iii is better, but whatev. they are both NES games and they are very good games.
and i been working call center jobs forever, so doing the same thing over and over (i.e. grinding) doesnt bother me. in fact, im probably insane because of it |
If you are OK with the gameplay of Dragon Warrior, you will think that FF is super advanced. Dragon Warrior is terribly slow in comparison.
I think you will really enjoy FFIV. I wouldn't worry too much about playing it on the DS though. The DS version is fun, but there are too many monsters that "one shot" you and nothing is more annoying than instant kills. This isn't an issue at all in the Original or Advance version.
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King
Title: CTE
Joined: Apr 27 2008
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 1506
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Here's a sick twist, I actually love the Dragon Warrior games. I think it may be mostly nostalgia at this point, but they were really fun back in the day, and yes they can be tooth pulling painfully slow at times, but it had something that I really liked. That and who doesn't like obliterating a slime or 2. As far as FF games go, IV is my ultimate favorite, bar none. I liked the story, the blitz's, the tool weapons (giant drill, chainsaw etc.).
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16136
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| GPFontaine wrote: |
| username wrote: |
lol didnt mean to open up a can of worms.
ill probably start w/ff iv advance since my friend already has that on the gba. and then maybe replay it as ffiv ds.
anyhow, graphics dont matter to me. one of my favorite rpg's is dragon warrior, and those graphics arent that fantastic either. i think dragon warrior iii is better, but whatev. they are both NES games and they are very good games.
and i been working call center jobs forever, so doing the same thing over and over (i.e. grinding) doesnt bother me. in fact, im probably insane because of it |
If you are OK with the gameplay of Dragon Warrior, you will think that FF is super advanced. Dragon Warrior is terribly slow in comparison.
I think you will really enjoy FFIV. I wouldn't worry too much about playing it on the DS though. The DS version is fun, but there are too many monsters that "one shot" you and nothing is more annoying than instant kills. This isn't an issue at all in the Original or Advance version. |
one shot monsters dont bother me too much. in fact, i probably revel in the chance of encountering those and killing them.
but we'll see how much i enjoy ffiv advance.
if its as good as phantasy star ii, then ill give the whole series a shot. also, i have ffXII, since my old roommate bought it, played half of it and then moved out and didnt bother taking the game. so thats probably gonna be my second game, unless some of my friends have some of the ps1 FF games.
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| Klimbatize wrote: |
| I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load |
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Burt Reynolds
Title: Bentley Bear
Joined: Apr 07 2008
Location: California
Posts: 1399
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12 is fairly fun, and actually a bit more challenging than some of the previous titles, but by this time all the OG's had left square, and it just doesn't have the FF flavor like the other ones. If you want a FF experience, i would avoid that one.
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Dances with Wolves 2 is gonna ROCK! |
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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
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| username wrote: |
| GPFontaine wrote: |
| username wrote: |
lol didnt mean to open up a can of worms.
ill probably start w/ff iv advance since my friend already has that on the gba. and then maybe replay it as ffiv ds.
anyhow, graphics dont matter to me. one of my favorite rpg's is dragon warrior, and those graphics arent that fantastic either. i think dragon warrior iii is better, but whatev. they are both NES games and they are very good games.
and i been working call center jobs forever, so doing the same thing over and over (i.e. grinding) doesnt bother me. in fact, im probably insane because of it |
If you are OK with the gameplay of Dragon Warrior, you will think that FF is super advanced. Dragon Warrior is terribly slow in comparison.
I think you will really enjoy FFIV. I wouldn't worry too much about playing it on the DS though. The DS version is fun, but there are too many monsters that "one shot" you and nothing is more annoying than instant kills. This isn't an issue at all in the Original or Advance version. |
one shot monsters dont bother me too much. in fact, i probably revel in the chance of encountering those and killing them.
but we'll see how much i enjoy ffiv advance.
if its as good as phantasy star ii, then ill give the whole series a shot. also, i have ffXII, since my old roommate bought it, played half of it and then moved out and didnt bother taking the game. so thats probably gonna be my second game, unless some of my friends have some of the ps1 FF games. |
Um, when I say one shot, I mean they kill you in one shot. Sometimes without you even having the chance to initiate the first blow. You just start with a dead character... or three.
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Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3112
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Man, screw you noobs. You HAVE to start with Mystic Quest. It gives you all of the backstory, while connecting all of the games together.
I'm joking of course, but I did start off with Mystic Quest myself.
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So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind. |
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
Posts: 7565
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| Quote: |
| Well, unless you play the Dawn of Souls version, where the Marsh Cave is so dumbed down that you can beat it in 20 minutes. |
20 minutes in the Marsh Cave? Wow, you're doing -something- wrong. Even on the NES version, you can be in and out of there in about 5. 10 if you loot it.
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Pandajuice
Title: The Power of Grayskull
Joined: Oct 30 2008
Location: US and UK
Posts: 2649
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| Burt Reynolds wrote: |
| 12 is fairly fun, and actually a bit more challenging than some of the previous titles, but by this time all the OG's had left square, and it just doesn't have the FF flavor like the other ones. If you want a FF experience, i would avoid that one. |
Agreed. Also, keep in mind that XII was fairly revolutionary as far as changing the FF formula goes. The battles are in real time, it requires a fair amount of grinding and as Burt said, the underlying FF vibe that connected all the previous games like an underground ley line isn't really there.
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Douche McCallister
Moderator
Title: DOO-SHAY
Joined: Jan 26 2007
Location: Private Areas
Posts: 5672
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It's a lot more challenging then the recent games though. I loved XII, the hunts, setting up gambits, getting completely destroyed by Ziamat, or whatever his name is. There is a lot to do in that game, but as cheesy as X is that's probably my favorite all time, with VI right behind it. Plus the opening sequence in X is fucking awesome.
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