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Posted: Nov 05 2008 01:29 am

docinsano wrote:

JRA wrote:

Syd Lexia wrote:

Hooray, now my tax money can go to provide free healthcare to people who don't deserve it!

THIS IS AWESOME!

Exactly who doesn't deserve free health care?

Yeah, I like to believe I deserve healthcare...

No one deserves free healthcare.

Healthcare is just like everything else in this world. You want it? Go out, get a job, and fucking EARN IT.

Can't afford it? WORK HARDER.

Don't want to work harder? THEN FUCKING DIE.

The government isn't fucking Santa Claus. It's not their job to give you ponies and houses and healthcare. Our government should be doing less stuff, not more. And once we cut down the government's size and power, we should cut taxes, thus giving you more money to go out and find your own damn healthcare.

Joined: Sep 17 2007 Location: The Opium Trail Posts: 3475

Syd Lexia wrote:

The government isn't fucking Santa Claus. It's not their job to give you ponies and houses and healthcare. Our government should be doing less stuff, not more. And once we cut down the government's size and power, we should cut taxes, thus giving you more money to go out and find your own damn healthcare.

I agree with everything except this. You think the Republicans still favored small government? Even after the Patriot Act, the return of wiretapping, etc.etc.?

Posted: Nov 05 2008 01:41 am

I am pretty happy with Obama. But being Canadian that still provides no comfort against the storm of Steven god damn Harper. Ugh.

Posted: Nov 05 2008 01:45 am

JRA wrote:

Syd Lexia wrote:

The government isn't fucking Santa Claus. It's not their job to give you ponies and houses and healthcare. Our government should be doing less stuff, not more. And once we cut down the government's size and power, we should cut taxes, thus giving you more money to go out and find your own damn healthcare.

I agree with everything except this. You think the Republicans still favored small government? Even after the Patriot Act, the return of wiretapping, etc.etc.?

Nevermind what "Republicans" believe, it's what I believe.

But actually, many Republicans still do favor small government. Bush's expansion of the government and the spending that accompanied it were viewed an affront to true conservatism by many, and that's why you saw people like Colin Powell and William F. Buckley's son endorsing Obama.

There was a major split in the GOP this year. There were those who wanted Obama to win, because they felt that even though he would not serve a single one of their interests, losing the presidency would revitalize the party to its true conservative roots. Then there were those who stuck with McCain because although Bush had led the party astray over the last 8 years, they saw a McCain presidency as a change to rebuild the conservative brand, and at the very least, he would serve more conservative interests than Obama would.

Docinsano's Channel 63 · Posted: Nov 05 2008 01:54 am

Syd Lexia wrote:

No one deserves free healthcare.

Healthcare is just like everything else in this world. You want it? Go out, get a job, and fucking EARN IT.

Can't afford it? WORK HARDER.

Don't want to work harder? THEN FUCKING DIE.

The government isn't fucking Santa Claus. It's not their job to give you ponies and houses and healthcare. Our government should be doing less stuff, not more. And once we cut down the government's size and power, we should cut taxes, thus giving you more money to go out and find your own damn healthcare.

Wow, that's a real positive approach. Oh I'm dying of cancer, can't work, and am only 19 so jobs are limited and usually don't offer healthcare. Shit, better go to the doc. Oops, I can't afford it because I cant work because I HAVE FUCKING CANCER. I guess I'm gonna die because HEALTHCARE IS SO GODDAMN EXPENSIVE. So how do you feel now? I'm going to die now because I can't afford health insurance.

However, I do believe that welfare should be cut nationwide. Welfare is such a joke for most people that get it. It's sad.

Posted: Nov 05 2008 02:00 am

Is your hypothetical 19 year old a fucking orphan? If not, he/she is covered under their parents' insurance until they're at least 22, some go as high as 25.

Also, most major retail chains offer health insurance to part-time employees and they're always hiring. If you can work even a limited amount, you can get insurance from them.

Also, the extremely poor are already eligible for healthcare as part of Medicaid.

Joined: Sep 17 2007 Location: The Opium Trail Posts: 3475

Syd Lexia wrote:

There was a major split in the GOP this year. There were those who wanted Obama to win, because they felt that even though he would not serve a single one of their interests, losing the presidency would revitalize the party to its true conservative roots. Then there were those who stuck with McCain because although Bush had led the party astray over the last 8 years, they saw a McCain presidency as a change to rebuild the conservative brand, and at the very least, he would serve more conservative interests than Obama would.

Revitalizing the Republican party I'm assuming? Well here's a chance for that to happen.

I'd have to say the worst thing to happen to this election was Hilary Clinton, hands down. I saw a spoof video of Hilary's concession speech and Bill took over and basically said "Well my plan to get back into the white House failed." If Hilary wasn't already married to Bill, no one would have taken her seriously. Not to mention that she pretty much paved the way for Sarah Palin. I would say that was the biggest mistake that John McCain made.

Joined: Aug 24 2005 Location: Mount Holly, NJ Posts: 1062

Syd Lexia wrote:

No one deserves free healthcare.

Healthcare is just like everything else in this world. You want it? Go out, get a job, and fucking EARN IT.

Can't afford it? WORK HARDER.

Don't want to work harder? THEN FUCKING DIE.

The government isn't fucking Santa Claus. It's not their job to give you ponies and houses and healthcare. Our government should be doing less stuff, not more. And once we cut down the government's size and power, we should cut taxes, thus giving you more money to go out and find your own damn healthcare.

TRUTH. I've never agreed with anything on this forum more than I agree with this statement. It stems from my political/social roots... I've mentioned many times I consider myself a Republican (I belive in small government, a strong military, and genuine sense of personal responsibility), but do have a few liberal leanings (couldn't give a shit about gay marriage, abortion's okay in a few cases)... that said, if I could paint myself 100% with a brush, I'd call myself a staunch capitalist.

One of the prime incentives for working in the United States is for healthcare. I truly believe that for better or worse, it's been a driving force of the US economy (which has historically trended upward, forget the current trough it's in). The government should not be in the business of giving out free services for three reasons:
1) Someone's got to pay for it, and that means you. The term "free healthcare" is bullshit, the term "I-pay-for-others healthcare" is more appropriate. I may not be paying their doctor bill, but I will sure as shit be paying for it in taxes.
2) Incentive to work and contribute to the GDP of the United States is a GOOD THING. Taking away an incentive to work will act as a vacuum on the economy. I've talked to a shitload of people that have said "If I got healthcare, I wouldn't be so concerned about getting a job." That shit scares me. Healthcare is a benefit, earn it.
3) Imagine everyone DOES have healthcare. Now imagine you, as a hard working citizen, are sick- you need to go to the doctor. Not a specialist, just a doctor. The wait time to see a general practitioner is going to go through the roof. This sounds cold, but think of it economically... free health care floods the market with consumers. Unless the government plans to pay for thousands of new general practitioners to go through med school in the next say, 2 years, you can bet that the doctor's offices are going to be full of assholes who skinned their knees, but can afford to go to the doctor because you and I are paying for it.

Healthcare is like any other consumer good. It should be earned in a free market, not given away like candy off a parade float.

Posted: Nov 05 2008 02:14 am

Sarah Palin was definitely a mistake. Honestly, McCain should have picked Huckabee. I didn't like him in the primaries, I've caught him on the Daily Show and the Colbert Report since he dropped out of the race and he's actually a very charismatic, entertaining guy, and he would have played better in crucial states like Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Michigan than Palin did.

This was McCain's race to lose, and he lost it. After locking the Republican primary in miraculous out-of-nowhere victory, he was able to sit back and watch as Hillary and Obama bitterly fought for the Democratic nomination, a nomination which wasn't locked until days before the DNC. Obama barely won that battle, but McCain blew his momentum. In the final days of the campaign, his attack ads shouldn't have been about Bill Ayers, they should have been video reels of the things Hillary said about him during the primaries.

Docinsano's Channel 63 · Posted: Nov 05 2008 02:15 am

Syd Lexia wrote:

Also, the extremely poor are already eligible for healthcare as part of Medicaid.

Good. it should stay that way.

I really do believe everyone should be granted healthcare. There are unexpected things that happen and require surgery and usually insurance will cover most of it... That and insurance companies like to rip people off.

Food stamps (EBT or whatever they are called) is what i call more of the "Santa Claus" thing. Basically it's free money from the gov't for some people. Welfare seems to be abused quite a bit and should be revised.

My idea: Give coupons for huge discounts on food rather than an EBT card or welfare check. There, I'm done with this thread. I'm just glad the elections are over. I won't have to see another fucking political ad for another couple of years. Yay.

Joined: Sep 17 2007 Location: The Opium Trail Posts: 3475

Edit: Forget it, I never should have opened my mouth in the first place. I come here to escape from country woes.

Joined: Aug 05 2008 Location: CA Posts: 867

JRA wrote:

I come here to escape from country woes.

Yep, all I am going to say is LANDSLIDE.

Posted: Nov 05 2008 02:53 am

It's not a landslide though. While Obama garnered most of the electoral votes, he only won the popular vote by 5%, 52-47. Make no mistake, he will have to prove himself. And if he doesn't, 2012 will mark the end of his national political career.

Joined: Aug 24 2005 Location: Mount Holly, NJ Posts: 1062

Bobby Jindal will be around in 2012 in some capacity. Count it.

Joined: Oct 12 2007 Posts: 821

I have mixed feelings about national healthcare. On the one hand, there are people who definitely don't deserve it, who have never worked a day in their life or barely work at all, and I understand not wanting to pay for them. But for me, I know a lot of hardworking people who don't have healthcare, and for some that do, I see them worry every time they have to pay the bill, because it does cost a lot. I know my dad's went up sometime within the last year, and when it did he panicked. In the end, I would rather there be some people who don't deserve healthcare getting it, then those who do deserve it not having it.

Sorry if that block of text is unreadable, I am tired.

Posted: Nov 05 2008 03:34 am

McCain ran his campaign disgracefully. Partly because of the structure the Republican party has adopted, the relatively moderate McCain had to play to the base till there was nothing left of the actual Maverick save talking points. Palin would be the culmination, Huckabee would have been no better. McCain with laudable dignity trying calm his feral crowds says a great deal; he inherited a party he's not suited to.

The whole election has been garbage. Obama's party has been spouting hope and change and not bush. A baseless platform. McCains followers have all been saying terrorist, socialist, communist, athiest, muslim, and radical. Also baseless. We chose the liar with the better tone.

This may be for the best. The republican party has for too long been shifting more and more to extremity, while dropping its initial values. Its been small government when convienient, free market for the poor and socialism for the powerful, science when it agrees with conservative policy, dedicated to ensuring rights and freedoms of southern babtists to live in a country where nothing they object to is practiced, and always always always declaring liberals and anyone who doesn't fall in line with their thinking to be nothing less than traitors. Ideally republicans will come together, return to basics, and shift a bit leftward towards the moderate philosophies of the American people.

I'm also hoping that democrats take this powerful mandate and senate majority and put it to good use. The power of such a crushing mandate and congressional majority is very corrupting, and what we could end up with is a tyranny of the left.

I voted Obama because I was afraid of a conservative majority in the supreme court, and I'm socially very liberal. Or libertarian, cause of how much I dislike government welfare, healthcare, and other such programs.

I'm hoping in eight years we might have a real election.

Posted: Nov 05 2008 05:07 am

enshinkarateman wrote:

Also, anyone else see the CNN Hologram? Trippy stuff.

I switched on CNN out of curiousness yesterday and caught the first time Wolf Blitzer talked to Jessica Yellin's "hologram". She mentioned that the movements of the cameras filming her were synchronized with those of the cameras in the studio, which means that it wasn't a real Princess Leia style projection appearing in the room, but merely an overlay on the television broadcast. That's still cool, but not really a hologram in my book.

Posted: Nov 05 2008 06:44 am

nihilisticglee wrote:

I have mixed feelings about national healthcare. On the one hand, there are people who definitely don't deserve it, who have never worked a day in their life or barely work at all, and I understand not wanting to pay for them. But for me, I know a lot of hardworking people who don't have healthcare, and for some that do, I see them worry every time they have to pay the bill, because it does cost a lot. I know my dad's went up sometime within the last year, and when it did he panicked. In the end, I would rather there be some people who don't deserve healthcare getting it, then those who do deserve it not having it.

One of the biggest problems with adopting national healthcare is that we have a significantly poorer country directly to the south of us, one that is already sending us far too many immigrants, both legal and illegal, If we adopt national healthcare, that problem will only get worse. Our country is crowded enough as it is, we need to start getting rid of people, not give more a reason to jump the fence. It's time we updated the inscription on the Statue of Liberty. Sorry world, we don't want your weak, your tired, and your poor anymore. We want your best, your brightest, your hardest workers. That, or NO VACANCY.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Syd Lexia wrote:

docinsano wrote:

JRA wrote:

Syd Lexia wrote:

Hooray, now my tax money can go to provide free healthcare to people who don't deserve it!

THIS IS AWESOME!

Exactly who doesn't deserve free health care?

Yeah, I like to believe I deserve healthcare...

No one deserves free healthcare.

Healthcare is just like everything else in this world. You want it? Go out, get a job, and fucking EARN IT.

Can't afford it? WORK HARDER.

Don't want to work harder? THEN FUCKING DIE.

The government isn't fucking Santa Claus. It's not their job to give you ponies and houses and healthcare. Our government should be doing less stuff, not more. And once we cut down the government's size and power, we should cut taxes, thus giving you more money to go out and find your own damn healthcare.

This thread as progressed far beyond this quote, but I wanted to discuss a few things. So rewind back to Syd's post here for a moment.

First of all, I think that everyone should have healthcare as a requirement of law. I know that Massachussets did this a year ago, I'm not sure what requirements are elsewhere.

Second of all no one of a standard working age should be entitled to free health care. To me, this means that anyone ages 18-62 would need to have a job to get healthcare benefits. Nothing offered for free.

I do however think that part time jobs should include a small emergency healthcare plan that is offered by the government but paid into by the employer. It's coverage should be extremely limited, but existent. This emergency style coverage should be offered to every employee of every company regardless of how much they make. Real (useful day to day coverage) would continue to exist in its current form, as a benefit offered by good employers.

Since the offerings would be limited, the cost wouldn't be much, but the employeers would pay, not the employees.

I'm still not sure how I feel about long term care for overweight people and smokers. It seems like those who damage themselves should really have to pay for themselves.

I definitely feel like an increase to the number of mental health professionals offered in schools would decrease the number of people who grow up and have more severe problems.

Posted: Nov 05 2008 09:51 am

Cattivo wrote:

JRA wrote:

the fact that pretty much the entire world hates us thanks to Bush

Newsflash: Anti-Americanism existed before Bush became president.

Now that it's over, let's see if Obama's hype matches his results. With the way the economy is fucked, I doubt it.

Overall, with the dems in control of most everything, they now have total responsibility. Let's see what happens when they start getting the blame for all of the international and economic crises we will face in the coming years. That's the only good part for the GOP now - no matter what happens, we can't get any of the blame.

QFT. I'm soooo fucking sick of the liberal media. Hopefully things like The Daily Show will make fun of the democrats now, as they're the ones in power, instead of it just being a giant liberal circle jerk.

JRA wrote:

Syd Lexia wrote:

The government isn't fucking Santa Claus. It's not their job to give you ponies and houses and healthcare. Our government should be doing less stuff, not more. And once we cut down the government's size and power, we should cut taxes, thus giving you more money to go out and find your own damn healthcare.

I agree with everything except this. You think the Republicans still favored small government? Even after the Patriot Act, the return of wiretapping, etc.etc.?

I don't agree with things like wiretapping really, but at least the intent was still national security, which is what the government is there for.

For me, though, this election was all about Question 1 in Massachusetts, and I'm very disappointed it lost, especially by a more than 2:1 margin.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

For me, though, this election was all about Question 1 in Massachusetts, and I'm very disappointed it lost, especially by a more than 2:1 margin.

I am assuming that you are referring to this question:

Quote:

This proposed law would reduce the state personal income tax rate to 2.65% for all categories of taxable income for the tax year beginning on or after January 1, 2009, and would eliminate the tax for all tax years beginning on or after January 1, 2010. The personal income tax applies to income received or gain realized by individuals and married couples, by estates of deceased persons, by certain trustees and other fiduciaries, by persons who are partners in and receive income from partnerships, by corporate trusts, and by persons who receive income as shareholders of "S corporations" as defined under federal tax law. The proposed law would not affect the tax due on income or gain realized in a tax year beginning before January 1, 2009. The proposed law states that if any of its parts were declared invalid, the other parts would stay in effect.
WHAT YOUR VOTE WILL DO

A YES VOTE would reduce the state personal income tax rate to 2.65% for the tax year beginning on January 1, 2009, and would eliminate the tax for all tax years beginning on or after January 1, 2010.

A NO VOTE would make no change in state income tax laws.

http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/ele08/ballot_questions_08/quest_1.htm

While I no longer live in Boston, Massachusetts, I only recently left. Up until my departure this past summer, I recognized that there were excessive numbers of city police officers. In a city where University Police (paid by the schools, not taxes) make up such a huge portion of the crime prevention, I just can't see why there were so many.

Remember a year or two earlier when the new Governor took a helicopter ride instead of driving "just because".

I am not sure if the infrastructure could handle a $12 billion dollar loss... but I definitely think that things aren't right in that state. Many of the schools are shit holes... clearly the funding isn't going to them. So where is it going? Why are so many people against giving their money to the government of Massachusetts?

Because they fuck up. Constantly. Non fucking stop fuck ups.

If I lived there, I would ask to keep my money too. The real problem is that the money would help if it weren't being used for such fucking nonsense.

I hope for those who still stay there and call Mass home, that the real problems are fixed... I don't think a vote like this will swing the same way if in another 4 years the Government isn't doing a better job.

Posted: Nov 05 2008 12:28 pm

Why was there no Nader on the Poll? He was on the ballet in my state, PA.

Joined: Aug 24 2005 Location: Mount Holly, NJ Posts: 1062

King wrote:

Why was there no Nader on the Poll? He was on the ballet in my state, PA.

I think he conceded yesterday morning or the day before.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Kubo wrote:

King wrote:

Why was there no Nader on the Poll? He was on the ballet in my state, PA.

I think he conceded yesterday morning or the day before.

I think he was listed in CT.

Posted: Nov 05 2008 01:24 pm

I really hope Obama doesn't get to nominate any justices to the Supreme Court.