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S. McCracken
Moderator
Title: Enforcer
Joined: Aug 22 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2171
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So, if you haven't heard, McCain suspended his campaign today in order to head back to Washington to help with the proposed $700B bailout.
While I believe that it is the right move to make, I feel like it has a lot more to do with the latest polling results and less with being "the right thing" to do.
To quote the sentiment I've been reading and hearing lately, the only thing that's changed between now and 2 days ago is McCain's polling numbers. They've been declining sharply as McCain is getting wailed on by the media for a number of reasons:
1) His top advisors are lobbyists, with his number one guy having been a lobbyist for Fannie Mae.
2) He is turning away from his own deregulatory record, chiding the CEOs of establishments that he helped make rich. It's especially funny seeing as McCain was embroiled in a deregulation-centered S&L scandal some time ago.
3) In Palin's first (EVER!) meet-and-greet with two world leaders (one of which, the Iraqi president, was installed by the US and therefore posed no difficulty) the media was banned on asking Palin quesitons about it or reporting on the meetings. If you want your candidate to look competent and able, shouldn't she be treated like the other candidates? How is this policy of "Hide Sarah Palin" NOT sexist?
4) Obama actually brought this idea to John McCain THIS MORNING. 30 minutes before he made his "grand gesture" in front of the press, he called Obama to agree to work out details, then went in front of the cameras and took credit for the idea. Bi-partisan action my BALLS.
The best part: McCain wants to suspend the debate as well. Perfect for him, seeing as the American people will have time to forget about the freefall of the economy once the bailout gets done and he can dodge the hammering he would have gotten on his economic history.
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Ghandi
Title: Alexz Aficionado
Joined: May 21 2008
Posts: 2889
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Isn't it illegal for the government to bailout anyway? I know there's something on the books about the government interfering in Wall Street and stocks.
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Knyte
2010 SLF Tag Champ*
Title: Curator Of The VGM
Joined: Nov 01 2006
Location: Here I am.
Posts: 6749
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They can't bail out private companies, but since Fanny and Freddie are Public Stock companies, the federal government can step in to help protect the investors as well as the customers who have loans through the organizations, to help them avoid foreclosures.
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S. McCracken
Moderator
Title: Enforcer
Joined: Aug 22 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2171
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I'm not against the actual bailout (though it needs safeguards in place...something Paulson isn't understanding). I'm against the fact htat McCain can feign interest and concern when he and the rest of his deregulation friends got us into this mess in the first place.
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Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3112
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It's a poll-play. Since Obama is ahead in the poll, the McCain campaign pulls out to "focus on the economy." This makes McCain look like the man who wants to help America, while Obama is eager to campaign and debate (keeping up with the whole "rather lose a war than an election" line). McCain can't really do more than any other Senator at this point, so it's really pointless to dump his whole campaign just to "focus" on a single issue.
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 So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind. |
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S. McCracken
Moderator
Title: Enforcer
Joined: Aug 22 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2171
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| Greg the White wrote: |
| It's a poll-play. Since Obama is ahead in the poll, the McCain campaign pulls out to "focus on the economy." This makes McCain look like the man who wants to help America, while Obama is eager to campaign and debate (keeping up with the whole "rather lose a war than an election" line). McCain can't really do more than any other Senator at this point, so it's really pointless to dump his whole campaign just to "focus" on a single issue. |
The worst part is that he did it after Obama thought up the idea and now McCain wants to postpone the debate until he can take credit for the bailout. Now McCain is basically admitting that he can't multitask.
Lincoln ran for office during the Civil War. Reagan ran at the height of the Cold War. Bush ran with two wars raging in Afghanistan and Iraq. But McCain can't run during a crisis on Wall Street?
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Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 5228
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There's always the chance that there's nothing nefarious behind this and maybe he's actually concerned. Even if anything he did helped cause this mess, that doesn't mean he wants us to be in a mess. People are allowed to make mistakes, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure if I were in a position to make such a decision, I'd probably say "fuck campaigning" and do everything I could to prevent the potential collapse of our economy.
Keep in mind that I don't necessarily think that this is what is behind McCain's reasoning, I just don't like that people always assume that everything politicians do is underhanded. I know we live in a society where everyone wants to hate the government, especially Republicans, but I'm pretty much positive that Bush's decision that we invade Iraq was much less underhanded than Lincoln's decision to free the slaves.
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dr.jeebus.sydlexia.com - Updated sometimes, but on hiatus!
| UsaSatsui wrote: |
| The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus |
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TheRoboSleuth
Title: Sleuth Mark IV
Joined: Aug 08 2006
Location: The Gritty Future
Posts: 2739
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Obama basically called him out on it said that when your the president you have to be a big boy and deal with all of these kinds of problems at once. Win.
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Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3112
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| Dr. Jeebus wrote: |
There's always the chance that there's nothing nefarious behind this and maybe he's actually concerned. Even if anything he did helped cause this mess, that doesn't mean he wants us to be in a mess. People are allowed to make mistakes, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure if I were in a position to make such a decision, I'd probably say "fuck campaigning" and do everything I could to prevent the potential collapse of our economy.
Keep in mind that I don't necessarily think that this is what is behind McCain's reasoning, I just don't like that people always assume that everything politicians do is underhanded. I know we live in a society where everyone wants to hate the government, especially Republicans, but I'm pretty much positive that Bush's decision that we invade Iraq was much less underhanded than Lincoln's decision to free the slaves. |
McCain doesn't sit on any economic committees, and the bill basically got drafted without any contributions from him. All McCain can do is vote on the thing. That means that this play could mean one of two things:
1) What I said earlier about looking more concerned
2)He does this, and pushes back the debates. This pushes the vice-presidential debates until right before the election, so that Sarah Palin doesn't get her ass handed to her, then seeing weeks of analyzation and jokes about it right up to election day.
I don't trust anybody in this world, much less trust politicians. Everything that Obama and McCain will do for the next month is with the election in mind.
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 So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind. |
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Lady_Satine
Title: Head of Lexian R&D
Joined: Oct 15 2005
Location: Metro area, Georgia
Posts: 7287
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 "Life is a waste of time. Time is a waste of life. Get wasted all the time, and you'll have the time of your life!" |
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Avian
Joined: Jul 16 2006
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue
Posts: 324
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Obama and Biden will completely rape McCain and Palin in the debates. Both are quick, smooth talkers. McCain can't match Obama, and Palin is retarded.
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 "Wolfman's got nards!"
You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance!
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24886
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| Avian wrote: |
| Obama and Biden will completely rape McCain and Palin in the debates. Both are quick, smooth talkers. |
Put down the crack pipe.
Obama is absolutely a talented speaker, both charismatic and quick-witted.
But Biden!? Biden is awful. He has a droning voice and he's made several embarassing gaffes that have hurt Obama. The guy was possibly the worst choice Obama could have made, and it makes him seem servile to the "old politics" that he says he wants to change.
I don't think Biden can win a VP debate. Palin is not a great speaker either, but she has energy and enthusiasm, two things Biden lacks in spades. Not that it matters. No one gives a shit about the VP debate.
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DoctorOrpheus
Title: Title: Title: Title
Joined: Sep 18 2008
Posts: 258
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
But Biden!? Biden is awful. He has a droning voice and he's made several embarassing gaffes that have hurt Obama. The guy was possibly the worst choice Obama could have made, and it makes him seem servile to the "old politics" that he says he wants to change.
I don't think Biden can win a VP debate. Palin is not a great speaker either, but she has energy and enthusiasm, two things Biden lacks in spades. Not that it matters. No one gives a shit about the VP debate. |
I'd have to agree. I think that neither VP candidates make exceptionally good speakers but at least Palin has a little bit more pep in her step. Plus she hasn't gotten much exposure to debates yet whereas Biden has so people will be paying a little more attention to how she performs. I think the VP debate will be pretty low-key though... just to make sure neither of them make a slip up on such a large venue.
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Burt Reynolds
Title: Bentley Bear
Joined: Apr 07 2008
Location: California
Posts: 1399
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| Avian wrote: |
| Obama and Biden will completely rape McCain and Palin in the debates. Both are quick, smooth talkers. |
Put down the crack pipe.
Obama is absolutely a talented speaker, both charismatic and quick-witted.
But Biden!? Biden is awful. He has a droning voice and he's made several embarassing gaffes that have hurt Obama. The guy was possibly the worst choice Obama could have made, and it makes him seem servile to the "old politics" that he says he wants to change.
I don't think Biden can win a VP debate. Palin is not a great speaker either, but she has energy and enthusiasm, two things Biden lacks in spades. Not that it matters. No one gives a shit about the VP debate. |
Biden's speaking really has nothing to do with Obama's choice of him for VP. He doesn't need to speak well. He's a southern Democrat, and that's what he needed to secure his win, and since Edwards fucked himself, or more fucked his mistress, Biden was the only choice left. No offense to the southerners here, but it's been proven in the past that it takes a southern democrat to sway the south to the liberal side.
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 Dances with Wolves 2 is gonna ROCK! |
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Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3112
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| Avian wrote: |
| Obama and Biden will completely rape McCain and Palin in the debates. Both are quick, smooth talkers. |
Put down the crack pipe.
Obama is absolutely a talented speaker, both charismatic and quick-witted.
But Biden!? Biden is awful. He has a droning voice and he's made several embarassing gaffes that have hurt Obama. The guy was possibly the worst choice Obama could have made, and it makes him seem servile to the "old politics" that he says he wants to change.
I don't think Biden can win a VP debate. Palin is not a great speaker either, but she has energy and enthusiasm, two things Biden lacks in spades. Not that it matters. No one gives a shit about the VP debate. |
Did you see Palin on the Katie Couric interview? She basically just repeated "Maverick" "Russia close to Alaska and "small town values" over and over again. She's got a friendly personality, but she just comes off as a total ditz in an interview situation.
And how was Biden a bad choice? He's probably the best Democrat with foreign policy experience (He basically has predicted everything that's happened with Iraq), he's a huge women's rights advocate, and defends himself very well if attacked.
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 So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind. |
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ged1928
Title: A new hope
Joined: Apr 24 2008
Location: Portsmouth, NH
Posts: 292
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Palin is an ignoramus, and Biden is an intelligent and estabilished politician. I think Biden was a great choice for Obama, because they definitely synergize each other, and together they cover a lot more fields of expertise than either does alone. Obama is clearly a smoother speaker than Mccain, and in my opinion more intelligent, but when it comes to Biden vs. Palin, I think that Biden's experience will speak well enough for itself. Palin is too unintelligent and/or unfamiliar with politics and economics to be able to do anything but be on constant defense. She has only had a couple of oppurtunities to speak without cue cards, and they have all been vomit-inducing failures.
The debate is on, as of Friday morning, just for the record.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24886
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ged1928
Title: A new hope
Joined: Apr 24 2008
Location: Portsmouth, NH
Posts: 292
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| I wish Cattivo was here. |
I wish I had a new pair of rollerskates, but you don't see me complaining.
- Patti Mayonnaise
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Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3112
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| ged1928 wrote: |
| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| I wish Cattivo was here. |
I wish I had a new pair of rollerskates, but you don't see me complaining.
- Patti Mayonnaise |
"Honk honk!"
-Voltaire.
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 So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind. |
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Optimist With Doubts
Title: Titlating
Joined: Dec 17 2007
Posts: 5042
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I think Obama did pretty well in the debates, and Mccain came of more like dad giving his sun a lecture.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24886
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They both did decent. No one really won.
But whereas Obama already has a lead, he didn't need to win. Just hold his ground, which he did. So good for him.
There's still two more debates to go, so here's hoping McCain has a magic bullet.
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Blackout
Title: Captain Oblivious
Joined: Sep 01 2007
Location: That Rainy State
Posts: 10376
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| so here's hoping McCain has a magic bullet. |
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Kubo
Joined: Aug 24 2005
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Posts: 1062
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
They both did decent. No one really won.
But whereas Obama already has a lead, he didn't need to win. Just hold his ground, which he did. So good for him.
There's still two more debates to go, so here's hoping McCain has a magic bullet. |
Agreed. The first debate was more or less a draw. There were two notable things that took place during the debate, IMHO. First, McCain came off as a little bit condescending. Whether this is good or bad hasn't been borne out yet, but everyone is talking as if talking to Obama like he doesn't know what he's doing is a bad thing to do. I'm not so sure. If the McCain campaign wants to paint Obama with the "too little experience" brush, then talking to him like he has no clue what the fuck is going on is a good way to do it.
Second, and this is going to hurt Obama (at the very least he'll have to answer for it)- on at least four occassions, Obama used the words "John is right" or "Senator McCain is right." Wrong thing to do, politically. By saying those words, even if they're true, Obama is conceding certain issues to McCain as being in on the ground floor of the solutions. I'm also gettin tired of hearing the Obama campaign talk about "past failures of Iraq." McCain hit the nail on the head when he said that the next president will need to RESOLVE THE ISSUE OF IRAQ rather than bitch about how it was handled by the Bush administration.
From last night forward, if Obama talks too much about the "failures of Iraq," he is going to look like he has a retrospective perspective rather than a proactive one. Not exactly what the "candidate for change" should be going for.
Overall, my impression of the debate was that Obama was smooth and articulate, as he always is; But McCain held his own better than most thought that he could. McCain's mistakes (butchering Ahmedinajad's name) were relatively minimal. Obama's were as well, but saying "John is right" on too many occasions made him look exactly how people think McCain was trying to make him feel- like a kid that suddenly got a seat at the grownup table and doesn't want to piss off the adults in the room.
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 Thou, because I am wroth, be not dismayed, for I shall win the strife, whoever circle round within for the defence. This their insolence is not new, for of old they used it at a less secret gate, which still is found without a bolt. Above it thou didst see the dead inscription; and already on this side of it
descends the steep, passing without escort through the circles,
One such that by him the city shall be opened to us. |
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Kubo
Joined: Aug 24 2005
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Posts: 1062
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| Burt Reynolds wrote: |
Biden's speaking really has nothing to do with Obama's choice of him for VP. He doesn't need to speak well. He's a southern Democrat, and that's what he needed to secure his win, and since Edwards fucked himself, or more fucked his mistress, Biden was the only choice left. No offense to the southerners here, but it's been proven in the past that it takes a southern democrat to sway the south to the liberal side. |
Biden was born in Scranton, PA and was a senator in Delaware. A good ol' boy from Dixie, he ain't.
I think Biden was chosen because 1) he was safe, 2) he is the head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (nullifying the justified criticism that Obama had limited foreign relation experience), and 3) he could be an attack dog. The third reason I speculate is the one that sits least well with me. It seems to me that the Obama campaign needed someone other than Obama to go on the offensive against McCain so Barack Jesus F. Kennedy Obama could keep his hands clean. At first, I actually bought into the Obama-is-different mindset. Unfortunately, I really think that politics are politics, and the Democrats latched onto the candidate-for-change angle, complete with outspoken arguments by proxy.
It's all moot anyway. I'm going to base my decision on who to vote for by their Senate voting records and the plans they lay out in their books. All the politics just screens the issues.
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 Thou, because I am wroth, be not dismayed, for I shall win the strife, whoever circle round within for the defence. This their insolence is not new, for of old they used it at a less secret gate, which still is found without a bolt. Above it thou didst see the dead inscription; and already on this side of it
descends the steep, passing without escort through the circles,
One such that by him the city shall be opened to us. |
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mjl1783
Joined: Aug 13 2008
Location: Watertown, NY
Posts: 131
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If the debate was a draw, it was because both men did poorly.
For all the talk that McCain was ducking the debates to avoid having to talk about the economy, it doesn't seem he should have been worried. Obama sat there and let him go on and on about earmarks as if they actually mean something. Earmarks are simply items written into the budget which reserve X amount of dollars for a specific program. Even if congress were to abolish earmarks ENTIRELY, that money would still theoretically be up for grabs. Not once did Obama point out that if McCain really wants to reign in spending and balance the budget, his tax proposals would require him to make ACTUAL budget cuts. Big ones too, we're talking about a quarter of the federal budget. Not once did McCain give an answer as to where he's going to get this money. Obama didn't fair much better. "This is all Bush's fault!" doesn't quite cut it. Wall Street didn't force american consumers to borrow up to their fucking eyeballs, stop saving, and price themselves out of jobs.
The foriegn policy portion was equally pointless. Yes, when it comes to nuts n' bolts military decisions, McCain knows his shit. Yes, Iraq was a bone-headed move to begin with, and Obama said so from the get go. So McCain was right about salvaging the giant clusterfuck for which he was unapologetically partly responsible. Did either man actually come up with a picture of what the fucking endgame in Iraq is supposed to look like, what has to happen before we can pull the plug on the thing, or how close we are to making that happen? No.
What about Iran, Venezuela, Russia, Syria, N. Korea, etc.? Apparently we can't have negotiations unless we're guaranteed ahead of time to get what we want out of the negotiations. Also, if these crazy fucking assholes drag their heels, break every agreement they make, or just tell us to go fuck ourselves, there's nothing we can really do about it. Awesome.
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