The number one thread on any football forum. We might as well get it going here. I'm talking about pro QBs, so this should be the only mention of Danny Wuerffel. He was a system QB anyways.So if you want to argue Flutie because of his "other than NFL" accomplishments, have at it.

I might try and list my top ten later. I'd rather play devil's advocate for a while.

Mr. Bomberman wrote:

John Elway

I like your moves. Elway is my alltime fave ever in the history of everything. He is one of my four heroes. He gets shit on a lot because of his poor efficiency across the board. But people forget he was made from the same mold as the gunslingers of the 70's. While a lot of guys from his era were playing a different passing game (Montana - WCO), he went to a pass happy high school (while most high schools are run first) that allowed him to mature as a passer earlier than some of his peers. The same is true of Stanford. So he was putting together his passing game when the gunslinging mentality was the norm.

Marty Schottenheimer said something along the lines of if he had one game to win, he would take Joe Montana. If he had one play to make, he'd take John Elway.

ross_rifle113 wrote:

Joe Montana. Thread over.

This should be the favorite answer. But I'm not sure. For me it may be him or another guy. But he should be in everybody's top five. No exceptions.

Valdronius wrote:

Gotta go with Flutie. He's Canadian. That or Marino, cuz I'm a huge Ace Ventura / Hootie and the Blowfish fan.

Marino is also a good choice. The biggest knock on him is that he never won the Super Bowl. But for that, I'd say he was never on a team capable of winning one. So its really not fair to knock him for it. Both him and Elway should be on everybody's top ten, most people's top five.

ThatGuy wrote:

scamrock wrote: I'm not sure. ROBOT!

I love the Manning-Brady debate. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer (I also don't think there is a right answer to the topic question, although there are wrong ones). But I have been known on sports forums to take up the side of which ever guy is getting bashed at the time. But a lot of it depends on what you would constitute as great.

First of all, I think that when one guy's fan knocks the other guy as reasons his guy is better is when I start putting in my two cents. If you say Manning is better because of his stats, or Brady is better because he has the ice veins, I like that. If you say Manning is better because of something Brady did or didn't do, or Brady because of something Manning did or didn't do, it really doesn't help your argument. Its usually speculation anyways. We don't know if Brady would have put up better numbers if he were with the Colts and we don't know if Manning would have won more chips if he were with the Pats.

I will say this. I think when its all said and done, Manning will be the one most consider the top guy ever. I say this because he is going to set the bar so high its going to be hard for anyone to come along take his place. He could make several records seemingly untouchable. People will consider that personal accomplishments rather than team accomplishments (in contrast to Brady's Super Bowl wins). He is also the most efficient QB ever aside from Steve Young.

This isn't taking anything away from Brady. He is also one of the most efficient QBs ever. He also has great numbers. Just not anything astronomical like Manning. He also has all those rings (I do hate when people say 'he'll probably end up with 5 or 6'...dumbasses). Plus he has the one and only thing I think Manning is lacking. Ice in his veins. I haven't seen anyone who does better under pressure since Montana and Elway. People he shit on him for losing the Super Bowl don't have a clue. He did lead the team on a game winning drive. The only problem was Eli turned around and did the same thing. But Brady did do what he was supposed to do. But that very last drive, wasn't the kind of drive anybody can do. If he would have completed the drive, it would have been regarded as one of the best ever. Hell Eli's will go down as one of the top drives ever and if Brady would have got that last TD it would have even been more miraculous.

I'm sure I've done it too. If you catch me, call me out on it. But for example, sometimes you'll hear somebody say, "Well Manning has had a top tier receiving corps for his whole career and he has had the luxury of playing in a dome." Now, while some people may be refering to the fact that they believe Brady would have done just as good, if not better under the same conditions. However, a lot of people use it as if to say that Manning is a simply an above average QB who is a product of these conditions.

I challenge any non-Tennessee fan to name one receiver Manning had in college besides Peerless Price. I challenge anyone to name anyone besides Price to be able to perform beyond the college level. He also played outdoors an Neyland Stadium. Needless to say, in college he still put up great numbers.

I don't want to sound bias toward Manning, because I'm not intending to, but I also want to point out that I am used to defending Manning much more than I am Brady. This is because of all of the bandwagon fans who don't know what the hell they are talking about. Usually, smart, life long Pats fans are easy to talk to and know what they are talking about. That's not to say that some of the homers that are nuthugging on Brady aren't delusional as well.

At the same time a lot of Brady fans like to shit on their own team to help hype their guy Tom. He doesn't need that. Anyone who doesn't think he is great doesn't know what they are talking about. Also this doesn't happen with Colts fans, because I think pretty much everyone can acknowledge that Manning has a top tier supporting cast, and even when the defense is doing good, the biggest reason they win is their offense. But a lot of Brady fans try and pretend he was the only decent guy on the team. "Well, Brady had to do it all by himself." Bullshit. He had plenty of people in his organization to help him along the way. One of the best coaches ever (spygate or not), One of the most creative defensive schemes ever. Solid line. Though his receivers were never considered amazing, they have always been one of the hardest working corps in the league. They get a bad rap. Lots of studs on defense. Even in the early days, when Brady first took over, the D still had these guys. While they weren't considered as good as they are now, they were still the same guys who would become what they are today. Also, Kevin Faulk may be the most underrated player in the entire league.

When it all comes down to it though, football is a situational game. Its hard to speculate how certain things would be different under different situations. Its really to close to call when choosing between them.

I knew you'd list Bobby Layne you fucking homer. Layne was awesome though. I'm really not sure where I would rank him though. Maybe top twenty? I dunno. I'd have to think about it and decide how many guys I can name better than Layne. He is overlooked a lot though. Maybe its because most people forget that Detroit even has a team. Unfortunately, after the ass whoop they put on my guys last year, I know exactly who they are.

GPFontaine wrote:

The last game people saw Brady play didn't exactly go well. I think that this severely impacts how people think about him. He went a whole season without a loss and then the team blew it. I think this will haunt his name until he wins another Super Bowl.

Personally, I think the idea that they blew it is not an accurate reflection on what really happened. Sure they could have played better throughout the game. But when it comes down to it, I don't think its as much that the Pats lost as it is that the Giants won. Manning's drive a the end was insane. While they didn't get the sack on that one play, they did put some good pressure on him. The fact that he got the pass of is amazing in and of itself. Then add that insane catch to top it off.

Eric Crouch was always interesting to me. I wouldn't have had unreasonably high expectations of him. But I always wondered how he would have done as an NFL quarterback as opposed to being drafted as a wideout. Then in NFL Europe, he was a safety. I realize he was small. But he was athletic (which is why he may be more suited at other positions). I would at least like to have seen him in action as a QB. He played a little in the CFL. But I think he got hurt or something. What's funny is that he was on the same team as Michael Bishop, who, if not for Ricky Williams, would also have been a Heisman winner. I only mention this because he is another college stud QB who was unable to successfully make the transition to NFL and has been forced to be satisfied as a journeyman in various other leagues.