Syd Lexia wrote:

Also, that statistic is fairly ridiculous as the majority of refs are white and the majority of top NBA players are black.

Exactly. I was also listening to sportstalk radio when that whole issue came about. They broke the whole thing down and it made the whole idea seem like total bullshit.

Also, as far as fixing the playoffs, I'd say Tim Donaghy is full of shit. He gets caught cheating, now he's going Jose Canseco on the NBA. I think he is looking for publicity. The only way to really fix a game would be to get players in on it. NBA players seem way too outspoken. If you approached one and it didn't go the way you wanted, they would be running their mouth about it most likely. Plus, even if you get a player to shave points, there is no guarantee another player isn't going to turn it on. Unless a game was really close, the refs wouldn't be able to dictate the outcome of a game.

Look at the finals this year. What could the refs really do to hold Boston back? And I think its been proven time and time again that nobody can contain Kobe. Not even the refs.

crookshow wrote:

He's not looking for publicity. He's facing a long prison sentence for gambling on the outcomes of over 100 games that he officiated. He's trying to convince the feds that other refs were also involved so he can snitch on them and cut a deal for reduced time.

Either way, he benefits. Also, I'm not saying there couldn't be other refs that were in on it. That is always a possibility. But as far as I know, there is no proof other than Donaghy's word. Nobody is coming out making claims to substantiate his story. Personally, I don't find him credible.

I do find it believable about what he was saying about the autographs and dinners and things like that. But I would think that refs attempting to fix games would be few and far between. Not only would they be jeopardizing their careers and risking jailtime, but they would be doing it on national television and in front of thousands of people.

Also, since this is a federal matter (the gambling), it would be easy to look at the tapes and look for these phantom calls. I would think the NBA would be on top of it to cover their ass. So I'm guessing if they found anything, they would address it. We would probably hear about it either via press conference or through the media.

Like I said, I wouldn't be suprised if there were others. But I doubt there are a lot, and I doubt it is being orchestrated by the NBA itself. On the other hand, I wouldn't be suprised if they encouraged them to "let them play" in certain situations. But I can't see them encouraging refs to show bias toward one team.

crookshow wrote:

And refs can definitely affect the outcomes of games without the help of players. Take game 2 of the Boston LA series, where the C's got to the ft line 38 times versus the Lakers' 10. Boston ended up winning by 6 points. I'm not saying it was rigged, but you can't tell me shit like that can't affect the outcome of games.

Sure in a close game. Even unintentional bad calls can affect the outcome. But I wouldn't think you could actually force 38 trips to the line vs 10. That would be way obvious. Bad calls wouldn't even be that lopsided. For the most part, I think it would be legit. I think a handful of intended bad calls one way or the other would be the most a ref would even attempt. And in a close game, sure they can try to affect the outcome. But that's about all they can do is try. The shots still have to fall. Also, while they can get away with phantom calls, there is no guarantee that if you no-call, that another ref won't call it.

anorexorcist wrote:

I don't care for the NBA, but I am glad they made them all wear suits to games, going too a game dressed in street clothes or dressed like a gangsta is fucking ridiculous.

I wouldn't want to wear a suit. Business casual is fine. I would be fine with cargo pants and a polo.

Makes me think of when the WWE started their dress code for the wrestlers. That, IMO was just dumb. If I'm getting an autograph before or after an event, I want a guy wearing a sleeveless shirt, jean shorts, and a fanny pack. Unless I'm meeting Rick Flair or somebody, I don't expect a suit.

S. McCracken wrote:

It's hard to make the Canseco comparison and then say Donaghy is full of shit. Canseco ended up being right.

Actually, the reference was to throwing people under the bus to better your own situation.

Douche McCallister wrote:

Donaghy was betting on over/unders, which are extremely hard to rig. I guess if he wanted he could call fouls every play to jack the score up but it's really hard to purposely get an under. People would easily catch on to the purposely called fouls. As far as the Patriots winning the Superbowl, I think if the NFL were rigged it would have happened exactly how it played out. People dispise the Patriots all season, with Spy Gate, then with running up the score, and the like (None of which I have a problem with, If you can;t stop them then thats your fault). Factor in the Perfect Season, then you have them playing a 6 seed in the Superbowl, Blow out right? No...one of the best Superbowls I have seen. If I were to rig the NFL thats exactly how I would have made it happen, ratings at an all time high, and a spectacular game. With the underdog on top. Go Lions! [/rant] P.S. SPORTS FORUM!

Also, if the NBA were rigged, then why would San Antonio and/or Detroit be the top teams every season. I actually like fundamentals and defense. But it kills the ratings. On top of that television os one of the NBA's best sources of income.

Like I said, I can understand a couple of rogue refs acting on their own. But there are an overwhelming amount of people who actually believe the NBA is rigged under the guidence of David Stern.

crookshow wrote:

I think it's silly to say that the shit is completely scripted like wrestling, but it's certainly not a stretch to think that the outcomes of some games, particularly close ones, could be affected by a few favorable (or unfavorable) ref calls. I've seen plenty of NBA and NFL games in the last year alone where the key calls were blatantly in the favor of one team, and very likely dictated the outcomes of those games. Momentum plays such a huge role in pro sports, and the refs have quite a bit of control over the way that goes.

Right. I agree with that. But I'm still saying there is no guarantee, especially if it is a single ref trying to do so. Another ref could have an unintentional bad call going the other way. Kobe, for example, is one of the best clutch players of all time. If you are trying to force a Boston win, even in a close game, a guy like Kobe could still potentially ruin your plan. If you are trying to fix a series opposed to a single game, this would make it even harder. Calls that potentially affect the outcome of a game are also the most looked at by the governing bodies.

I think if you were a ref on the take, the NFL, where you play just one game rather than a series, or a non-team sport, like boxing would be where you would want to be.

EDIT: I may also be looking at the whole thing wrong. As a former player, I have always felt that almost always, the team that won deserved it. You either dominate or get dominated. And in a close game, you allowed the other team to keep up with you. I always feel that, even though refs do have the potential to affect the outcome, the outcome is usually decided by players. And the winning team is usually the better team. Sometimes in a close game, some people feel like they get hosed. But since I realize that I have probably also been on the opposite side of the hosing at times, I'm more inclined to feel like it all comes out in the wash.

So you guys may be right. I think the biggest thing for me though, is that I just don't believe Donaghy. On some aspects, the smaller, non-criminal offenses, like scoring autographs, having dinner with players, and things like that, I think it is very likely. I think the league may even attempt to push certain teams, or ask the refs to take it easy to allow for a high scoring game. But I think they still probably intend on an even playing field. I just think when it come down to it, Donaghy, for the situation he is in, has something to gain, not only by possibly a lesser sentence, but also the publicity you get as a whistle blower.

David Stern works probably as hard as anybody to give his league a certain image. I think if there was any real proof anybody was on the take, they would be out. Also, in today's world, where everything is under the microscope, I think it would be harder to get away with.