SydLexia.com - The Forums :: View topic - Are we too soft on action heroes these days?

Posted: Jan 07 2006 11:09 pm

Remember that great scene Arnold has in Last Action Hero? You know, the one where he talks about how much it sucks to be a movie character who has his life torn apart because it would make a good movie, such as having his son dying and gives him nightmares for the rest of his life? Well, I was just watching The Last Boy Scout in which boy scout super agent, Bruce Willis, has his life ruined because he caught his boss beating up his wife and Damon Wayans has his pregnant wife murdered and his unborn child living for 17 minutes in a machine to have one dream before dying. Of course, John McClane gets the shit beaten out of him everytime we see him (divorces, suspension, alcoholic).

America used to be tough as shit on its action heroes. It seems to me in recent years we've gotten too "soft" on them. Where is the murdering of their family (besides The Punisher) or the complete disregard of their happiness? Sometimes we can be mean to them, but we're not giving them nightmares the rest of their lives Ellen Ripley style. We need to torture our action heroes much more than we have been doing.

Speaking of action movies, has anyone seen the new Dolph Lundgren movie: The Defender starring Jerry Springer as the president?

Posted: Jan 08 2006 09:53 am

I've heard another opinion that "America" doesn't really want equal treatment for a female lead the way they do for a male lead in an action movie--by equal treatment I mean that most audiences are fine with seeing a male lead get the snot beat out of him (Diehard With a Vengeance comes to mind). Most audiences, however, are NOT comfortable seeing a female lead beaten and bludgeoned during a major fight in the movie (like in AEon Flux...not that I saw it, just some of the thoughts on why it didn't deliver--aside from the whole Charlize as AEon part heh).

Posted: Jan 08 2006 04:12 pm

I think action heroes just tend to lack the charisma of the action heroes of old. Vin Diesel and Jason Statham can't hold a candle to Arnold Schwarzenegger and Kurt Russell. And scripts are worse. And ewe live in an age where CGI allows every director with a budget over $5 to use cheesy fake explosions. Unfortunately, they look nowhere near as cool as real ones. In particular, I think The Matrix ruined action movies. The Matrix is largely responsible for ushering in the era of MTV action movies: the super-stylized shots, the quick cuts, the emphasis on soundtrack. That's not to say that The Matrix itself was bad, but it has spawned an awful lot of shit in its wake.

Posted: Jan 09 2006 06:40 am

lordsathien wrote:

I've heard another opinion that "America" doesn't really want equal treatment for a female lead the way they do for a male lead in an action movie--by equal treatment I mean that most audiences are fine with seeing a male lead get the snot beat out of him (Diehard With a Vengeance comes to mind). Most audiences, however, are NOT comfortable seeing a female lead beaten and bludgeoned during a major fight in the movie (like in AEon Flux...not that I saw it, just some of the thoughts on why it didn't deliver--aside from the whole Charlize as AEon part heh).

This is a good point. The second I read this, I totally wanted to see a female Die Hard movie. However, with movies like Wolf Creek out now where women are beaten and the audience finds it horrific, I guess this may never be. Well, we'll always have Ripley... Oh why can't women be the action heroes in action movies and not horror films? This is such a weird gender issue... though, I guess, it kind of balances out...

Hmmmm, a female Die Hard... So Die Hard meets Aliens. I think I could pitch this concept... To the studios!

BTW, Aeon Flux did not feature the Theron thrashing everyone wanted. Which, as you say, might have led to the low performance... that and no one understood the damn thing.

Posted: Jan 09 2006 06:54 am

Syd Lexia wrote:

I think action heroes just tend to lack the charisma of the action heroes of old. Vin Diesel and Jason Statham can't hold a candle to Arnold Schwarzenegger and Kurt Russell. And scripts are worse. And ewe live in an age where CGI allows every director with a budget over $5 to use cheesy fake explosions. Unfortunately, they look nowhere near as cool as real ones. In particular, I think The Matrix ruined action movies. The Matrix is largely responsible for ushering in the era of MTV action movies: the super-stylized shots, the quick cuts, the emphasis on soundtrack. That's not to say that The Matrix itself was bad, but it has spawned an awful lot of shit in its wake.

The Matrix is now the standard to everything. Use one slow motion shot and suddenly it's "Matrix-y". Everyone describes fight scenes as "Matrix-esque" fighting when it is not. I'm kinda sick that everyone uses that film as the standard, but then again it isn't that bad of a standard.

True, thanks to Matrix we have gotten films like 3000 Miles to Graceland and The One.

I'm surprised you picked Vin Diesel and Jason Statham as the forerunners for the next great action hero. I happen to think both have been doing better work than others like The Rock, Ben Affleck, Ewan McGregor, and Tony Jaa. True, both men do not have the likability that Arnold has, but I feel more and more like I'll see a movie surely on the fact that they are in it. Hell, I want to see Thomas Jane in more action films now that I know his name (Dreamcatcher and Deep Blue Sea are much better to me now). Nathan Fillion would be great to see make a move into the action genre. Clive Owen is on the line to becoming an action hero thanks to BMW, but he needs to stop making this Closer shit.

Joined: Aug 25 2005 Posts: 287

I actually like Vin Diesel. Well, I thought "XXX" was a pretty good "modern" action film. It was just one ridiculous set piece after an other and it felt suitably "heavy". That being said, he's made some questionable choices since then, and it's way too early in his career for him to be doing the ironic comedy stuff like. At least Arnold had a number of biggies under his belt before doing "Kindergarten Cop".

The problem, as I see it, with today's action films is, kinda like Syd said, that the action itself just sucks. Too many films COULD have cool sequences but they chop the hell out of them and basically just induce migraines. I mean, hell, Van Damme and Segal couldn't act worth a shit, but at least when they fought, you could follow who was throwing the punch. I always used to watch action films to see how far they were willing to push it. Schwarzenegger did that for years ("Total Recall" was supposed to one up the last one and "T2" was supposed to one-up "TR", etc...). Plus, there wasn't a ton of emphasis placed on ironic delivery and self-referencing. That's gone completely out the window now. Hell, all I ever expected was that ONE big one-liner like "I'll be back" or "Hasta la vista, baby". Now the action stars are trying to be stand up comics, too.

Also, and this is just me shilling for George Lucas, but that's why "Episode III" in particular was so cool. Say what you will about the dialogue and whatnot in the prequels, but when he has to deliver a fight, he does it in spades. The mustafar duel was epic.

Joined: Aug 22 2005 Posts: 328

Syd Lexia wrote:

I think action heroes just tend to lack the charisma of the action heroes of old. Vin Diesel and Jason Statham can't hold a candle to Arnold Schwarzenegger and Kurt Russell.

I totally agree. Has there been a movie in the last five years that even comes close to Terminator 2 or Tombstone?

Posted: Jan 09 2006 05:33 pm

Tuckster wrote:

Syd Lexia wrote:

I think action heroes just tend to lack the charisma of the action heroes of old. Vin Diesel and Jason Statham can't hold a candle to Arnold Schwarzenegger and Kurt Russell.

I totally agree. Has there been a movie in the last five years that even comes close to Terminator 2 or Tombstone?

No.

However, I'd be willing to take another Broken Arrow at this point, I'm so desperate.

I think the best action movie in the last five years has been Bad Boys 2. It was extremely violent with, not one, but THREE car chases (eat that Matrix 2 and Terminator 3)! Plus, great humor and a near three hour running length. Michael Bay may be hated the world over, but the man knows how to deliver a summer flick.

Posted: Jan 09 2006 05:51 pm

I might still give it to the Terminator 3. Sure, it was a lot more nihilistic than Cameron's Terminator movies, but it was a decidely old school action flick and the ending was ballsy.

Posted: Jan 19 2006 06:00 pm

I was always disappointed that The Mummy didn't launch Brendan Fraser's action career. He'd make a good Harrison Ford-type action hero.

Posted: Jan 19 2006 07:16 pm

Syd Lexia wrote:

I was always disappointed that The Mummy didn't launch Brendan Fraser's action career. He'd make a good Harrison Ford-type action hero.

Yeah he really won me over, especially since I went into the film expecting to hate him (I only knew him from George of The Jungle and Airheads). He actually proved he should be in the running for the next generation of action heroes.