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JRA's wrestling inquiries.


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JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Apr 06 2010 09:24 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I've probably mentioned before that I've only watched wrestling as a kid, then "grew out of it", have been completely out of the loop, and for the most part still am. So please inform me of the following things:

1) Why do people hate John Cena?

2) Why can't I tell the difference between Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart?

3) When Vince fires somebody on the show, is that actually a planned part of the storyline, or is it because the wrestler broke the rules?

4) Am I the only person who thought Doink the Clown was the worst gimmick ever?


There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
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Optimist With Doubts
Title: Titlating
Joined: Dec 17 2007
PostPosted: Apr 06 2010 09:33 pm Reply with quote Back to top

1) A perceived lack of ability and for me a long since tired gimmick
2) No clue
3) Usually if someone did "break the rules" they will just not be mentioned again, there are probably exceptions though
4) No, but evil doink was far better. And vince was idiotic for not bringing him back round dark knight.


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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
PostPosted: Apr 06 2010 09:48 pm Reply with quote Back to top

1) I don't follow modern today, but usually when the crowd turns on a face, it means they don't like the character and think they don't deserve the push they're getting. See this page for some more info.
2) Because you need to have that cataract surgery. The two look, act, and wrestle nothing alike, aside from having the same general body shape.
3) Oh, hell no. As Opti said, if someone gets really, really fired, they just disappear. Someone getting publicly "fired" is usually cover for a vacation, or someone leaving the company on good terms.
4) Doink was way, way better than some of the other gimmicks around that area. At least when he was a heel.
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Knyte
2010 SLF Tag Champ*
Title: Curator Of The VGM
Joined: Nov 01 2006
Location: Here I am.
PostPosted: Apr 06 2010 10:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

1. Because the WWE wanted to push Cena has the face of the copy long before he was ready, and pushed him down our throats, trying to get people to rally behind him.

2. They are simular to an outsider observer or someone who doesn't watch wrestling much. They both are excellent in ring performers. They both became solo stars after runs in successful tag teams. They both rose in the ranks about the same time. They both were the faces of the company between 1996-1998.

3. If you want to know if someone is really fired, go to WWE.com and look for the infamous "xxxxx and WWE have parted ways, we wish them the best in their future endevors." note.

4. Again, evil Doink (Matt Borne) = Awesome. Face Doink (Steve Keirnoink, Steve Lombardi, Dusty Wolfe, and John Maloof) = Bad.
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JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Apr 06 2010 10:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Knyte wrote:


2. They are simular to an outsider observer or someone who doesn't watch wrestling much. They both are excellent in ring performers. They both became solo stars after runs in successful tag teams. They both rose in the ranks about the same time. They both were the faces of the company between 1996-1998.


Thank you.

Question #5 Why does Shawn Micheals hate Canada so much?


There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
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Knyte
2010 SLF Tag Champ*
Title: Curator Of The VGM
Joined: Nov 01 2006
Location: Here I am.
PostPosted: Apr 06 2010 10:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

He doesn't. Canada hates him for being part of the "Montreal Screwjob" against beloved, national Canadian hero, Bret Hart.
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SoldierHawk
Moderator
Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Apr 06 2010 10:39 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Knyte wrote:
He doesn't. Canada hates him for being part of the "Montreal Screwjob" against beloved, national Canadian hero, Bret Hart.


Exactly. Although Shawn has been a straight babyface since like...2001? He always pulls out his (quite formidable) heel act in Canada, to awesome effect. Like Knyte said, it goes back to the Screwjob. The fans in Canada will NOT treat him like a good guy--boo him no matter who he's against or what he says--so, in Canada, he doesn't act like one. He's a 'bad guy.' (Who usually ended up loosing a match to Chris Jericho or Chris Benoit or another suitably Canadian superstar.)

Weird...its almost like Canada has its own, separate WWE continuity that only happens there, and no one ever speaks of it outside the place...


militarysignatures.com

William Shakespeare wrote:
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.

 
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JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Apr 06 2010 11:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I just read the wikipedia article about the Montreal Screwjob. Man that shit was fucking wrong. The best part was Undertaker telling McMahon he needs to apologize.


There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
PostPosted: Apr 06 2010 11:38 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Brett screwed Brett.

And I say that without any irony whatsoever.

Vince was wrong in the screwjob, but Brett was more wrong.
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JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 12:10 am Reply with quote Back to top

UsaSatsui wrote:


Vince was wrong in the screwjob, but Brett was more wrong.


How?


There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 12:21 am Reply with quote Back to top

JRA wrote:
UsaSatsui wrote:
Vince was wrong in the screwjob, but Brett was more wrong.

How?

Because Vince is the boss.

The boss tells you to drop the belt, you drop the belt. Where he asks, when he asks, how he asks. No questions asked.

Particularly if you're leaving for a rival company next week.
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 12:25 am Reply with quote Back to top

1. John Cena doesn't suck because of ability or lack thereof, despite what some of the marks in the audience seem to believe. Cena is quite possibly one of the most 1 dimensional, boring characters I've ever seen. He's also one of the most inconsistant characters I've seen. They always build him up the exact same way, and as soon as he's done winning, he goes right back to being a goofy turd, then back to serious. Also keep in mind, he's beaten EVERYONE. He wrestles the same style match every single night, an 80's style Hogan match, mind you and always comes out on top. Also the fact he uses a submission is so fucking offensive, because he in no way wrestles in any sort of technical aspect, and yet anyone who is locked in the STF taps within seconds. Cena just can't tell a good story inside the ring, despite being the face of the company. Hell, people bitch about Hogan, but at least Hogan had ring psychology, which is something Cena fucking lacks big time.

2. Bret wrestles a technical based mat style, Shawn wrestles more of a risky style and is a better story teller. Don't know what else to really tell you, that hasn't already been said.

3. It's kayfabe, Vince would never fire someone on live TV, since that person could "shoot", meaning they could possibly do obscene things.

4. Matt Bourne aka the original Doink was fucking awesome, hell I believe Matt Bourne alone could've been the next Roddy Piper if he stayed away from drugs. Evil Doink had so much potential, and it was mentioned on several occasions that the "clown" was not really a clown, but just a way of getting in the opponent's head, so it was sort of a precursor to Goldust, who is another very underated character.
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JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 12:26 am Reply with quote Back to top

UsaSatsui wrote:
JRA wrote:
UsaSatsui wrote:
Vince was wrong in the screwjob, but Brett was more wrong.

How?

Because Vince is the boss.

The boss tells you to drop the belt, you drop the belt. Where he asks, when he asks, how he asks. No questions asked.

Particularly if you're leaving for a rival company next week.


It's not as if Bret said he wanted to take the belt into WCW, he just didn't want to lose it in Canada to Micheals.

6) This one isn't quite steeped in wrestling folklore, but has The Rock ever been in a movie that didn't suck?


There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 12:37 am Reply with quote Back to top

JRA wrote:
It's not as if Bret said he wanted to take the belt into WCW, he just didn't want to lose it in Canada to Micheals.

It doesn't matter if he wanted him to lose it to Al Snow in a Jell-o Chocolate Pudding match in his back yard. You do your damn job and stop acting like a prima donna.

Vince did have a fear that Brett would take the belt with him, actually. Justified? Probably not, since Brett ain't that kind of guy (I think). But the women's champ took the belt with her to WCW and threw it in the trash on TV a few months ago, so it's not like he was paranoid.
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 12:48 am Reply with quote Back to top

UsaSatsui wrote:
JRA wrote:
It's not as if Bret said he wanted to take the belt into WCW, he just didn't want to lose it in Canada to Micheals.

It doesn't matter if he wanted him to lose it to Al Snow in a Jell-o Chocolate Pudding match in his back yard. You do your damn job and stop acting like a prima donna.

Vince did have a fear that Brett would take the belt with him, actually. Justified? Probably not, since Brett ain't that kind of guy (I think). But the women's champ took the belt with her to WCW and threw it in the trash on TV a few months ago, so it's not like he was paranoid.

i agree w/usa. was it a dick move on vince's part? totally, but hes the boss. he calls the shots whether you like it or not.


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JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 12:51 am Reply with quote Back to top

UsaSatsui wrote:
But the women's champ took the belt with her to WCW and threw it in the trash on TV a few months ago, so it's not like he was paranoid.


I knew that, hence my sarcastic quip about WCW.


There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 12:58 am Reply with quote Back to top

For the record, even though Bret didn't say anything, he could've done it, very easily. When you're champion back in the day (not sure if this was done in the late 90's), you had to put a deposit down on the championship belt and you get the deposit back when you drop the belt. When Flair left WCW in 1991, he was champion and never got his deposit back. So he showed up on WWF with the WHT, which made WCW look really bad. Times got even worse without Flair there, and a lot of those PPVs really sucked because of the crowds.

Fastforward to 1995 or 96, can't remember exactly but Alundra Blayze was Women's champion in the WWF. She got an offer from WCW after her contract expired and Vince seemingly didn't know about it. Blayze went to WCW and threw the belt in the trashcan, which makes your entire women's division look like shit, and it was a few years before the division ever recovered.

Now Vince COULD take Bret at his word, but why take a chance? Also, Vince was an idiot for giving Bret creative control. On the flipside, Bret was an idiot for not dropping the belt like a man, you should ALWAYS do business no matter what. Bret was going to the RIVAL COMPANY, and he wanted to leave on top? Give someone the rub. Now granted, he said he would give anyone other than Michaels the rub, but it's all speculation. The whole thing with Canada was speculation as well.

Anyways, the Screwjob was one of the most overhyped, stupidest stories wrestling has ever had. Vince went on to become the number one company, and Bret enjoyed a great payday in WCW.
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 01:20 am Reply with quote Back to top

Doddsino wrote:
When Flair left WCW in 1991, he was champion and never got his deposit back. So he showed up on WWF with the WHT, which made WCW look really bad.

It should be noted that this was a pretty significant deposit ($25,000), and that it's not like he didn't try to get it back. He kept the belt in lieu of the money owed him. I think he still has it.
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JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 01:25 am Reply with quote Back to top

UsaSatsui wrote:
Doddsino wrote:
When Flair left WCW in 1991, he was champion and never got his deposit back. So he showed up on WWF with the WHT, which made WCW look really bad.

It should be noted that this was a pretty significant deposit ($25,000), and that it's not like he didn't try to get it back. He kept the belt in lieu of the money owed him. I think he still has it.



That is extremely interesting to know, because I read one of the tensions between McMahon and Hart during that time was McMahon was being flaky with payment. If Ric Flair never got his deposit back and neither did Blayze, then whose to say Hart wouldn't?


There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
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scamrock
Title: Space Bastard
Joined: Jan 26 2008
Location: Planet Druidia
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 02:08 am Reply with quote Back to top

I just started taping wrestling and watching it again just a few weeks ago. I guess its because I watch so much MMA, but I just can't enjoy watching the matches. I can still enjoy the story angles, interviews, and even the "non-sanctioned" brawls. But the matches themselves just don't do it for me anymore.


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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 02:20 am Reply with quote Back to top

JRA wrote:
UsaSatsui wrote:
Doddsino wrote:
When Flair left WCW in 1991, he was champion and never got his deposit back. So he showed up on WWF with the WHT, which made WCW look really bad.

It should be noted that this was a pretty significant deposit ($25,000), and that it's not like he didn't try to get it back. He kept the belt in lieu of the money owed him. I think he still has it.

That is extremely interesting to know, because I read one of the tensions between McMahon and Hart during that time was McMahon was being flaky with payment. If Ric Flair never got his deposit back and neither did Blayze, then whose to say Hart wouldn't?

Different scenario. It was the NWA (National Wrestling Alliance) that required the deposit. I'm not sure the WWF ever did require one.

And I don't think was worried about losing the belt per se as he was worried about the damage to his company's reputation.
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 03:25 am Reply with quote Back to top

You're right USA, it was NWA. And Flair did try to get the money, but Herd was a dick about it. However, it still did damage to have your champion, the TOP guy show up on the competition's show with your belt. It pretty much makes your company look a cheap Pizza Hut...oh wait...
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JRA
Joined: Sep 17 2007
Location: The Opium Trail
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 10:43 am Reply with quote Back to top

UsaSatsui wrote:
JRA wrote:
UsaSatsui wrote:
Doddsino wrote:
When Flair left WCW in 1991, he was champion and never got his deposit back. So he showed up on WWF with the WHT, which made WCW look really bad.

It should be noted that this was a pretty significant deposit ($25,000), and that it's not like he didn't try to get it back. He kept the belt in lieu of the money owed him. I think he still has it.

That is extremely interesting to know, because I read one of the tensions between McMahon and Hart during that time was McMahon was being flaky with payment. If Ric Flair never got his deposit back and neither did Blayze, then whose to say Hart wouldn't?

Different scenario. It was the NWA (National Wrestling Alliance) that required the deposit. I'm not sure the WWF ever did require one.

And I don't think was worried about losing the belt per se as he was worried about the damage to his company's reputation.



Assuming it wasn't a different scenario, giving the payment back = getting the belt back = not having to worry about an embarassing situation to the company.


There are a lot of what if's in life Donny. What if I hit you really hard in the face, knocked yo shit to the back of yo skull? What if I....had you girl gargle my nuts? The fact remains, you are a fuckin mutant.
 
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Knyte
2010 SLF Tag Champ*
Title: Curator Of The VGM
Joined: Nov 01 2006
Location: Here I am.
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 11:30 am Reply with quote Back to top

According to HBK, the original meeting to decide the fate of the belt was made by Vince and his real life (and not on screen yet) stooges (Patterson & Brisco). Vince then called in Shawn and HHH and asked Shawn if would do it. Shawn knew the shit storm it would cause, but was loyal to Vince and the company and agreed. Vince told Shawn to claim to not know anything about it, and that Vince would take full responsibility. (He also said the same thing to Referee Earl Hebner.)

After it went down, the Roster was pretty split on who was right and wrong. Shawn noted that Hunter and Himself were pretty scared after the match, and was releaved when real life (Not just character) badasses the Harris Twins (Then known as Skull & 8-Ball of the DOA stable) came over and stood next to either side of Shawn and said, "We know you did right thing, and we got your back."
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Slayer1
Title: ,,!,, for you know who
Joined: Sep 23 2008
PostPosted: Apr 07 2010 12:55 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Okay random question: A couple years ago (around 2005) they introduced a new wrestler that was like the "White Monk" version of the undertaker... who was he and what the hell happened to him?
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