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Posted: Mar 22 2012 03:33 pm

Yeah, I agree with Zarak's point. It seems like a major stretch (and rather comic-booky) that after just a few months someone would go from civilized society to roaming the woods in a hood with a katana and two zombies on leashes.

The argument that because there are zombies that it's okay if nothing else is believable is just stupid. That's why a show like this is great--you take one crazy event and try to imagine what would happen to real people in the real world in that circumstance. In this case it's a zombie uprising, but it could be anything--alien invasion, the god of Thunder coming to Earth, mole men attacking, whatever. Suspending all reality is going to turn off a lot of viewers.

I admit I know nothing about this character and am only going on the 5 seconds I saw her on screen (hell, I didn't even know it was a she until this thread), but my initial impression was "uh oh". I don't want them to veer off into pure fantasyland.

This isn't a knock against comics. I'm a big comic book fan. But I'm also a good television show fan and if stuff gets too far from reality then I think the show is going to suffer.

Also, a side note about the comic book spoilers. A lot of people (including myself) will likely check out the comic book because of the show, so if we could please continue to avoid giving away too many details from the books in this thread, I'd appreciate it. It would be my own damn fault if I walked into a Walking Dead Comic Book thread and read something I didn't want to see, but this is still a thread about a television show in progress. Thanks.

Posted: Mar 22 2012 03:37 pm

JoshWoodzy wrote:

justdrop wrote:

"Zombies? Totally realistic. Someone keeping them on chains? FUCK THAT!"

He never once said anything about them being realistic, he's just discussing the hypothetical's here, don't be so assy and rude.

He didn't have to; his whole point was that it's unrealistic for anyone to be that insane/stupid. It's also unrealistic for zombies to exist. After 2 seasons of (mostly) normal character behavior, I'm pretty sure they'll find a way to weave a woman that keeps zombies in.

Joined: Dec 28 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 66

Sorry if my last post was too much of a nod to the comics. I didn't say anything that wasn't said on The Talking Dead last Sunday, so I wasn't thinking much of it.

I agree that the new character seems a bit ridiculous with the few seconds we've seen, but I don't think they'd risk losing viewers by introducing something so outlandish when the rest of the story so far has been pretty plausible.

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

Yeah, I agree wtih Kim & chazz. I like seeing sci-fi/fantasy stuff with a realist twist (which is why I love the latest Batman films), so adding this Michonne character seems way too out there for me.

We'll see how it goes though. This show needs a major kick in the ass in order to reach its potential, so I'll keep an open mind. Maybe this will be just what it needs, besides the new prison setting.

Posted: Mar 23 2012 11:51 am

As always, Just Drop misses my point completely. My point was that DESPITE the zombies (which I fucking said, DESPITE the zombies being obviously unrealistic in their very existence), the show treats everything in a very realistic way and throwing in a super-sweet sword carrying, zombie leashing character ruins that feel. She's not a practical, real life response to zombies, she's a video game character. If this was Resident Evil: The Series, fine, she'd probably be an awesome character. But since it's not and we've had real world badasses like Daryl and (despite his violent tendencies) Merle up until now, it seems really out of place to throw in an obviously comic verse character who goes against the grain of everything the show has going as far as theme.

Klimbatize wrote:

The argument that because there are zombies that it's okay if nothing else is believable is just stupid. That's why a show like this is great--you take one crazy event and try to imagine what would happen to real people in the real world in that circumstance. In this case it's a zombie uprising, but it could be anything--alien invasion, the god of Thunder coming to Earth, mole men attacking, whatever. Suspending all reality is going to turn off a lot of viewers.

This is my point exactly, a lot of people seem to have trouble understanding that. This isn't an all-out, everything including the kitchen sink zombie story where there are mutant zombies and flying zombies and smart zombies and and cyborgs or any crap like that, it's ONE thing, ONE thing that's out of the norm and that is zombies.

Also, if you're bitching at me about comic spoilers, I said one thing that could be vaguely, slightly, remotely spoilerish that I don't even know if it's true or not, untwist your panties and calm down.

Posted: Mar 23 2012 12:05 pm

Again, there are insane people everywhere. I'm sure some idiot/nutjob would find it acceptable behavior if it were to happen. She hasn't jumped 500 feet in the air doing backflips or anything unrealistic yet. Until it happens, calm down.

I wasn't bitching at you about anything, but according to some people it doesn't matter how vague or not. I didn't even spoil anything and I got bitched out, but hey, you're a regular here. Enjoy the perks that come with it.

Posted: Mar 23 2012 12:12 pm

Well I'm also not a douche bag who starts fights with people over nothing all the time, try that out and you might find people are a little more accepting of you here...

And again, I'm not saying that crazy people don't do crazy things but here's the thing; A crazy person leashing zombies in the zombie apocalypse would not live long. At all. They would probably get bitten by the second one they tried to leash and die. I haven't read the comics, but I'm assuming that she's a regular character who has been doing this for awhile before Andrea encounters her and I'm betting she's going to be in it a long while after this episode too. Which, again, brings me back to my core argument; In the comic, she's fine as a character, in a REAL WORLD setting with REAL WORLD consequences, it is an incredibly stupid thing to do and regardless of whether "crazy people do crazy things", she would be dead if she tried to do that shit. So, unrealistic snag in an otherwise well integrated story. I don't know how much clearer I can get.

Like, imagine our world had zombies, doesn't even need to be an apocalyptic scenario for this, just imagine zombies alongside other everyday occurrences. If you were reading the paper and saw an article about a guy who decided to start keeping chained zombies as pets or whatever and took them everywhere and fought other zombies with them leashed to him as some crazy vigilante and then he ended up getting bit by one of his pets, you'd think 'Wow, that guy was fucking stupid." not "Wow, that guy is a total badass!" It would be like if you read an article today about some guy who decided to build his own suit of armor of trash can lids and then provoked a grizzly and got mauled to death.

Posted: Mar 23 2012 12:35 pm

You sure did make a lot of judgement calls from about 10 seconds of footage. Did you think the well scene was unrealistic as well? That zombie actually had its' lower jaw and was capable of biting Glenn. Also had both arms. How about the scene where Lori isn't watching where she's driving, knowing full well there's probably tons of debris and walkers? Also the 40+ round shotgun that I brought up? To say that zombies are the only unrealistic aspect of this show is nonsense.

Posted: Mar 23 2012 12:52 pm

OK, I'm done arguing with you because I keep making my point and you keep missing it entirely and now you're starting to lose coherency.

It's not just me right? I am making sense to other people reading this? I feel like I'm making my point clearly but maybe I'm not.

And yes, I am going to make some judgements on ten seconds of footage if those ten seconds are more ridiculous than anything that happened in the past two seasons worth of show.

Posted: Mar 23 2012 01:29 pm

Black Zarak wrote:

OK, I'm done arguing with you because I keep making my point and you keep missing it entirely and now you're starting to lose coherency.

LOL, good idea, man. Put yourself on the list of people who have tried and failed. It's pretty obvious he's either trolling or just stupid. I used to lean towards the former, but now I'm securely in the latter camp.

Black Zarak wrote:

It's not just me right? I am making sense to other people reading this? I feel like I'm making my point clearly but maybe I'm not.

You are making your point as clearly as you can. Trust me, it won't matter.

Also, I don't think anyone had said anything particularly spoilerish recently, but I was just reiterating the "agreement" in this thread so that it didn't spiral into another discussion about the comic book. I'm just playing it safe because I really don't know much about what's coming and I would like to keep it that way while also still engaging in a conversation about the show on this forum. And, like I said, many of us might now read the comics because of the show and want to keep some of that a surprise as well.

Black Zarak wrote:

Well I'm also not a douche bag who starts fights with people over nothing all the time, try that out and you might find people are a little more accepting of you here...

DING! DING! DING!

Posted: Mar 23 2012 02:54 pm

Sorry, I didn't mean to spoil anything if I did. I know literally a dozen things about the actual comic, mostly because I don't want to know what might happen.

Posted: Mar 25 2012 07:33 pm

lordsathien wrote:

@om*d wrote:

A zombie fetus would be one of the greatest things to ever happen on television. I hope it goes that way.

The zombaby from the Dawn of the Dead remake creeped me the fuck out. With that said, I approve of this plan.

It also reminds me of the rules for vampire fetii from 2nd edition Vampire: the Masquerade. That the undead newborn would claw and devour its way out of the womb, killing the mother and then run amok.

Jumping in a bit late here, but would that really work? Aren't babies born without teeth? Zombies without teeth are just smelly and annoying, hell if you got one that was armless and toothless it'd be practically harmless!

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

Damn, good point.

Posted: Mar 26 2012 03:03 pm

justdrop wrote:

Again, there are insane people everywhere. I'm sure some idiot/nutjob would find it acceptable behavior if it were to happen. She hasn't jumped 500 feet in the air doing backflips or anything unrealistic yet. Until it happens, calm down.

Working ONLY with what I saw on the show, this is how I would look at what we've seen of her so far. People are different, and everyone will find different ways to survive. If you're good enough, Lone Wolfing it with a katana makes as much (perhaps even more, given how Rick's group has devolved) than grabbing a (unlimited ammo that never misses a headshot) gun. Of course, we have NO idea why the hell she has zombies on leashes, but that explanation will come. Given the fact that Herschel was able to corral dozens of them in his barn, it's not absurd that someone would be able to leash a pair if they so chose.

Posted: Mar 27 2012 08:09 pm

I never even thought about it until you said it, but yeah they're all REALLY good at head shots.

I suppose it could be hand waived away that any group that survived that long would of course be expert marksmen, but yeah most head shots in a Zombie themed show I've ever seen.

Posted: Mar 27 2012 09:31 pm

Blackout wrote:

I never even thought about it until you said it, but yeah they're all REALLY good at head shots.

I suppose it could be hand waived away that any group that survived that long would of course be expert marksmen, but yeah most head shots in a Zombie themed show I've ever seen.

No, that's bullcrap. None of them use guns enough in the show for those with no experience (i.e. most of them) to become that competent. Depending on the branch, the US military takes 1-3 weeks of concentrated instruction to turn novices into halfway decent shots, and that's with a single weapon. I suppose you could argue they've been practicing, but not ALL of them, and not enough to be THAT good imho. The more effective handwave for me is that most of them use things like shotguns, which have a very large spread.

That's why, given the nature of these zombies, a katana sort of makes more sense than a gun if you have some familiarity and enough strength to wield it. It's far more effective at taking out groups, is silent, and never runs out of ammo. I'd also argue it takes less skill to be deadly *to a zombie* with one. (Although the reverse would be true, I think, if we're talking about humans.)

Posted: Mar 27 2012 09:41 pm

There have been lots of times when some of the survivors have not gotten headshots on the first try. Just rewatch the barn scene. I think the only characters who always hit the target are Shane and Daryl, but that makes sense given the characters and how well trained they are.

Hawk's point about using shotguns also makes sense.

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

SoldierHawk wrote:

The more effective handwave for me is that most of them use things like shotguns, which have a very large spread

Yeah, that was the most ridiculous part of that for me, and I actually commented on that out loud while watching the finale. Glenn is wielding a shotgun from a moving car, hitting zombies 25 yards away, and all the pellets are concentrated in the zombie's head. Bullshit.

Posted: Mar 28 2012 01:20 pm

Speaking of Glenn with a shotgun, there were a few times this season where he hopped into a car with a shotgun, and would point the freaking thing at his own head. He could also be seen switching the shotgun barrel from one side of his body to the other and using the shortest route possible--under his chin. Seriously, check out the gun safety exhibited by that guy if you rewatch this season. I think they're setting up a nasty, self-inflicted gunshot wound for Season 3.

Posted: Mar 28 2012 04:22 pm

SoldierHawk wrote:

Blackout wrote:

I never even thought about it until you said it, but yeah they're all REALLY good at head shots.

I suppose it could be hand waived away that any group that survived that long would of course be expert marksmen, but yeah most head shots in a Zombie themed show I've ever seen.

No, that's bullcrap. None of them use guns enough in the show for those with no experience (i.e. most of them) to become that competent. Depending on the branch, the US military takes 1-3 weeks of concentrated instruction to turn novices into halfway decent shots, and that's with a single weapon. I suppose you could argue they've been practicing, but not ALL of them, and not enough to be THAT good imho. The more effective handwave for me is that most of them use things like shotguns, which have a very large spread.

That's why, given the nature of these zombies, a katana sort of makes more sense than a gun if you have some familiarity and enough strength to wield it. It's far more effective at taking out groups, is silent, and never runs out of ammo. I'd also argue it takes less skill to be deadly *to a zombie* with one. (Although the reverse would be true, I think, if we're talking about humans.)

What you're forgetting, though, although I'm certain you're aware of it, is that a katana is going to bind when it hits a bone or particularly tough cartilaginous tissue unless you're talking a koto class blade or it's modern equivalent. Especially with something that's presumably somewhat rotten, your best bet is a blunt weapon with enough force/penetration to crush the skull and at least partially demolish the brain. This is the reason I have a cote-lucan style flanged mace (it's a repro, but solid as fuck); do not get a flail, it'll rebound and you'll smash the shit out of yourself if you hit something too hard. Hit and roll, hit and roll. If anything, you can barrel your way out of a cluster. Also, you never have to worry about maintaining an edge on one.

Posted: Mar 28 2012 05:35 pm

aeonic wrote:

What you're forgetting, though, although I'm certain you're aware of it, is that a katana is going to bind when it hits a bone or particularly tough cartilaginous tissue unless you're talking a koto class blade or it's modern equivalent. Especially with something that's presumably somewhat rotten, your best bet is a blunt weapon with enough force/penetration to crush the skull and at least partially demolish the brain.

That's an excellent point, but given the fact that our mysterious hooded figure DID decapitate a zombie with a single blow, I think it's pretty clear that her specific katana is strong enough for that kind of work, and that she's skilled enough to use it effectively.

However, generally speaking you're correct--unless you have that kind of quality and enough training to use it, something blunt and smash-y will probably be preferable to a blade. Given your point, I might even take a gun over a blade, limited ammo or no. At least a rifle or shotgun can be used as a club in a pinch.

Still, I think you might run into the same issue with blunt weapons. Unless you are strong or have weapons specifically designed to take someone's head off (like a mace), you aren't going to do the kind of damage you need to make your way through a horde. You don't necessarily run the risk of getting a baseball bat stuck in a zombie, but I can see it being ineffective enough to slow you down, and allow you to get overwhelmed from behind while trying to take out a group in front of you.

Posted: Mar 28 2012 08:08 pm

Personally I'd want a crowbar as a non ammo back up weapon. Not only is it good for cracking skulls, it's a handy tool for jimmying and prying around in an undead wasteland, gotta get at all that gasoline and Twinkies you know!

Title: an horse Joined: Feb 26 2012 Posts: 169

When did this thread go from being about a TV show to turning into the Sydlexia zombie apocalypse survival guide?

Posted: Mar 31 2012 04:11 pm

When the show went on it's second season hiatus.

Posted: Apr 02 2012 05:44 am

Klimbatize wrote:

Speaking of Glenn with a shotgun, there were a few times this season where he hopped into a car with a shotgun, and would point the freaking thing at his own head. He could also be seen switching the shotgun barrel from one side of his body to the other and using the shortest route possible--under his chin. Seriously, check out the gun safety exhibited by that guy if you rewatch this season. I think they're setting up a nasty, self-inflicted gunshot wound for Season 3.

Dude, I've also been thinking about this the whole season. Glenn is one of my favorite characters and I think he's pretty smart, but damn was I ever cringing every time he was riding in a vehicle. Come on, Glenn, don't do that shit to me.