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RAW 10/19/09 - Cena's final RAW, possibly


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DJStonie
Title: >.>... I dunno
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Location: KC, MO
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 01:25 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I believe the only things announced for the show tonight are Snoop Dogg as the guest host and John Cena vs. Triple H. This possibly being Cena's final RAW, it would have made more sense to let someone else other than Triple H get the match since it doesn't really matter who wins. Personally, I think either Ted DiBiase or Cody Rhodes could benefit much more from a main event match with Cena at this point, especially since they defated John Cena and Randy Orton last week.

That makes me wonder how long D-X is going to be around as well. Legacy's full of potential and it'd really be a shame to see nothing positive for them come out of this feud. If they're going to let Legacy actually get over, I think they need to end D-X sooner than later. For now they have Bragging Rights to worry about though. After that, though, it really would be nice to see Legacy finally get rid of D-X, much like what Orton is hopefully doing to Cena.

Besides, if D-X left, it'd give Legacy a chance to feud with another team for once. I don't think a Legacy / Hart Dynasty feud would be half bad to see at all.

Anyway, who thinks this is actually going to end up being John Cena's final RAW? I'd hope so, but I obviously won't hold my breath.
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Fusion
Joined: Oct 19 2009
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 01:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I hope it's his final RAW too. It'd just be good timing, in my opinion. Could get good things come outta it.
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Syd Lexia
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Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 01:51 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Why is Cena leaving?
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DJStonie
Title: >.>... I dunno
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Location: KC, MO
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 01:54 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Because, the storyline leading up to Bragging Rights is that Cena and Orton both want their feud to end once and for all. So, Cena requested an Iron Man match, to which Orton accepted but only if there were no countouts or disqualifications. And, since Cena made it so Orton wouldn't ever receive another title shot if he had lost at Hell in Cell, Orton demanded that Cena put his RAW career on the line. I believe that's how it got setup, anyway.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
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Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 02:10 pm Reply with quote Back to top

...so he'll be going to Smackdown?
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DJStonie
Title: >.>... I dunno
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Location: KC, MO
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 02:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Most likely. It wouldn't make sense to keep him on RAW anymore since I don't see Orton stepping down from the #1 spot for a while still. Plus, CM Punk could use someone other than The Undertaker to fued with. Hopefully it won't result in Punk going nowhere though.
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 04:25 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I could only wish he'd go to ECW...actually I don't since it's my favorite show. I say keep him on Raw personally. He, Orton and Triple H have already killed that show over the last year, no reason to spread their destruction elsewhere. If Cena DOES go to SD, they only logical choice I can see happening would be him and Taker facing off at Wrestlemania since he's bascially the ONLY person I can think of that COULD end the streak, although allowing it to happen would be shit. Also keep in mind with Cena on SD, the rest of the card will suffer. I don't see Punk, Morrison or anyone else growing and most likely will be jobbing to Cena.
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DJStonie
Title: >.>... I dunno
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Location: KC, MO
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 04:43 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'd have to disagree with you. I think Cena having a spot on SMACKDOWN! could have it's benefits for the guys who are on top and for the guys who are about to. John Morrison and CM Punk could both benefit it from loads, plus there's the guys who are about to reach the next level in their career - namely Dolph Ziggler, who I can see being a top guy down the line. But, of course, that's only provided Cena burying everyone doesn't happen. If it doesn't, I say it could prove to be a really good move.

And about him to ECW, I'd hate to see that. Christian's been on a pretty damned good roll lately, and out of anyone, I'd hate to see Christian suffer from Cena's star power. Cena's not the only capable of ending Undertaker's streak, in my opinion. I think if they really wanted to get a new top heel, then they could simply have him cash in Money in the Bank on Undertaker at the WrestleMania main event. May be a simple plan, but I beileve it'd get the job done.
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 04:55 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Honestly, I can't think of a single person who Cena hasn't squashed other than Triple H, Orton or Michaels. Everyone else seems to have to have "luck" on their side in order to even keep up with him. I guarentee if he goes to SD, Punk will NOT go over, he'll be given the exact same treatment that Jericho did when he went up against Cena. As I've said before, Cena has been built up WAY too strong to begin with, so for anyone to "hang" with him just isn't going to happen, he's going to be the focal point of the show no matter what.

Personally, I think it would've been in better interest to move Taker and leave Batista on Raw. Keep Raw as the established star show and keep SD as the "building" show. And I was kidding about Cena on ECW, I too am a huge fan of Christian and hate to see him underminded anymore. And while that Taker idea might happen, I REALLY don't want to see him in the title scene anymore. Plus, while "threatened" the streak is something that shouldn't be broken. They've built it up WAY too much and the only logical time they could've broken it was at WM21.
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Douche McCallister
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Title: DOO-SHAY
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PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 05:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Call me a n00b to Wrestling, haven't really watched since WCW ended, but why the hell do they have 3 different shows with 3 different sets of wrestlers, contained within them? Why can't you just have 3 different shows, with wrestlers going to different shows for periods of time? Doesn't the show just feel like a rehash of previous events after awhile? Sorry just been out of it for awhile.


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DJStonie
Title: >.>... I dunno
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Location: KC, MO
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 05:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Again, I must disagree. I'd say Cena's been allowing for others to shine as of late. I really doubt they'd just bury CM Punk with all he's been doing lately. If there was room for Randy Orton to shine on RAW, then I'd assume there's room for CM Punk to shine on SMACKDOWN! In my opinion, Punk's on an equal level to Orton at the moment.

And it's good to know you were kidding about Cena on ECW. lol. I could see Christian becoming a main eventer on either of the two other brands down the line, so it'd just blow to have Cena squash him. Not that they'd ever dare put him on ECW lol

I do believe the Undertaker's streak will end at WrestleMania sometime or another. You do have a valid point on it being built up... But, I believe that's exactly why it'd allow for someone to instantly become a superstar. It wouldn't be so bad to give the Undertaker one last title reign toward WrestleMania.
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 05:10 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Douche McCallister wrote:
Call me a n00b to Wrestling, haven't really watched since WCW ended, but why the hell do they have 3 different shows with 3 different sets of wrestlers, contained within them? Why can't you just have 3 different shows, with wrestlers going to different shows for periods of time? Doesn't the show just feel like a rehash of previous events after awhile? Sorry just been out of it for awhile.


Basically, after the buy out of WCW, Vince had a lot of wrestlers on his hands. He decided to split them up since very few people would benefit on a full roster of 70 or more guys. It's been working for a while, but it's been lacking lately since each main event scene is plagued with the same thing, few main eventers and not enough established guys to put up there.

DJStonie wrote:
Again, I must disagree. I'd say Cena's been allowing for others to shine as of late. I really doubt they'd just bury CM Punk with all he's been doing lately. If there was room for Randy Orton to shine on RAW, then I'd assume there's room for CM Punk to shine on SMACKDOWN! In my opinion, Punk's on an equal level to Orton at the moment.

And it's good to know you were kidding about Cena on ECW. lol. I could see Christian becoming a main eventer on either of the two other brands down the line, so it'd just blow to have Cena squash him. Not that they'd ever dare put him on ECW lol

I do believe the Undertaker's streak will end at WrestleMania sometime or another. You do have a valid point on it being built up... But, I believe that's exactly why it'd allow for someone to instantly become a superstar. It wouldn't be so bad to give the Undertaker one last title reign toward WrestleMania.


By shine, do you mean take punishment for a while THEN hulk up and destroy? I haven't watched Raw in over 2 months, but I can't see his game changing JUST like that. And it's not intentional burying, but it is the case when they don't allow any of their heels to be threats unless they're sneaky.

I'd really like to see a WM20 moment between Edge and Christian (ala Eddie and that other guy)...how awesome would that be? Then they strike a 5 second pose...AWESOME!

Taker to me, is above the title...he doesn't need it to get over and his reigns are never long enough to validate it. And it wouldn't make someone a star, since the infamy of ending the streak would keep them a heel for the rest of their career, and legit hate isn't good heat. I know there were "rumors" of having Dibiase Jr. be the one to end it, but even that doesn't seem right, since Dibiase is a charisma black hole.
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DJStonie
Title: >.>... I dunno
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Location: KC, MO
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 05:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Douche McCallister wrote:
Call me a n00b to Wrestling, haven't really watched since WCW ended, but why the hell do they have 3 different shows with 3 different sets of wrestlers, contained within them? Why can't you just have 3 different shows, with wrestlers going to different shows for periods of time? Doesn't the show just feel like a rehash of previous events after awhile? Sorry just been out of it for awhile.


I apologise for the potential double post, but I felt like responding to this post as well. Hopefully someone will respond before I do, though. :p

You mentioned you haven't really watched it since WCW ended - That actually plays a part i the roster split. It's having so many superstars and there being a lot of guys who deserve to shine, which becomes rather difficult when you've got the same guys facing eachother, going for the same title, etc.

So, they decided to split the roster between RAW and SMACKDOWN! Each ended up with their own sets of titles and PPV's. They changed the PPV setup though, so both shows appear on them along with ECW. ECW was meant to be a one-time thing if I recall correctly, but the popularity of it allowed for it's own weekly show.

So, the roster is divided into 3 brands - RAW, SMACKDOWN!, and ECW. It allows for many more stars to actually shine and reach that next level. Many consider RAW the "A" show, SMACKDOWN! the "B" show, and ECW as the "C" show. Punk won the ECW Championship, which he used to prove he's capable of performing on a main event level. Then, he went to RAW for a while where he captured all of RAW's titles - Including the World Heavyweight Championship. Now he's on SMACKDOWN!, where he's usually viewed as THE top guy.

That's just one example, of course. The only reason he's not RAW would be because Randy Orton and Legacy are currently dominating the show, I think. But the point is he was allowed to shine on ECW, then went on to reach the next level, and then the next... All on different shows.

And the shows don't really feel rehashed. Not to me, anyway. The draft following WrestleMania every year usually shakes things up enough.
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DJStonie
Title: >.>... I dunno
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Location: KC, MO
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 05:26 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Really? I've heard Ted DiBiase wanted to fued with Randy Orton, not The Undertaker. Either way, I'm with you on that, I don't really see Ted DiBiase being the man to end the streak.

To get around the whole "Legit heat" problem, you stick to someone who is very obviously a far better heel than a face. Someone who's actually capable of remaining a strong heel throughout their career. CM Punk I could see as that, but he's already established, so that probably wouldn't go over so well.

And, actually, Cena's been making Orton look like quite a threat. Their I Quit match saw Orton torturing Cena and Cena barely winning with the title, then losing it to Randy Orton at the following Hell in a Cell PPV without any interference on Orton's behalf.

Maybe they view it as a special circumstance since Orton's pretty much the #1 guy at the moment, but I'd like to think that it's not going to be the case. It just doesn't make any sense to me why they'd have Cena bury Punk at this point.

Oh, and the Edge and Christian thing... Well, Edge may come back as a face due to his last few remarks toward Chris Jericho. I'm not sure how well of a face he'd be considering the last few years of his career, but I could see them using Edge to get Christian over on SMACKDOWN!
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 05:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

DJStonie wrote:
Really? I've heard Ted DiBiase wanted to fued with Randy Orton, not The Undertaker. Either way, I'm with you on that, I don't really see Ted DiBiase being the man to end the streak.

To get around the whole "Legit heat" problem, you stick to someone who is very obviously a far better heel than a face. Someone who's actually capable of remaining a strong heel throughout their career. CM Punk I could see as that, but he's already established, so that probably wouldn't go over so well.

And, actually, Cena's been making Orton look like quite a threat. Their I Quit match saw Orton torturing Cena and Cena barely winning with the title, then losing it to Randy Orton at the following Hell in a Cell PPV without any interference on Orton's behalf.

Maybe they view it as a special circumstance since Orton's pretty much the #1 guy at the moment, but I'd like to think that it's not going to be the case. It just doesn't make any sense to me why they'd have Cena bury Punk at this point.

Oh, and the Edge and Christian thing... Well, Edge may come back as a face due to his last few remarks toward Chris Jericho. I'm not sure how well of a face he'd be considering the last few years of his career, but I could see them using Edge to get Christian over on SMACKDOWN!


Yeah, those were reports about Dibiase from August...take it with a grain of salt, he's got the look that Rhodes doesn't, but not the charisma. No thanks. Honestly, no one is a threat to Taker other than Cena, there were rumors of Jericho being the match that happened, but even then...we're going to get a predictable ending. With Cena, you don't know if Vince has the balls to pull that off or not. This doesn't need to be for the title either, let some new guys main event Wrestlemania for once, not Triple H.

That I Quit match was TERRIBLE! Cena cannot sell anything, and the outcome was SO goddamn obvious since Cena "doesn't want to let down the fans by saying I quit". He was screaming one minute, the next he very calmly says no. The HIAC match, sure he lost "cleanly" but completely nosold the damn punt and the announcers had to make up something on the spur of the moment to cover up the fact that Cena just does not know how to fucking sell. Orton doesn't feel like the evil heel he once was, he runs away more times than not, needs to cheat in almost every circumstance that he's under and he's pissed off no matter what's going on.

Again, you'd think they'd be SMART enough to NOT bury an up and comer...but it's CENA! You look at how they handled the Miz situation, after it was done...he was back to midcard. Christian back in 2005? Back to midcard. Umaga? Never stood a chance although I enjoyed their matches. There is absolutely no way that Punk would cleanly go over Cena. And not every heel NEEDS to win by some miraculous happening...sometimes they need to win clean. Look at Edge...he's never felt established to me because every title win is marked with "controversy".

Speaking of Edge, yes...he will come back as a face, I have no doubt about that, as the fans have been mixed for him in the last year or so. I just hope they don't fuck it up like they did in 2004. In all honesty, Christian is probably one of the best all around talents that WWE has right now, and I think it WOULD be smart to give him a nice Wrestlemania run as champion.
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Syd Lexia
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Joined: Jul 30 2005
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PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 06:01 pm Reply with quote Back to top

That's why Angle is such a great heel. He'll cheat if the opportunity arises, but he wins cleanly about half the time.
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
PostPosted: Oct 19 2009 06:06 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
That's why Angle is such a great heel. He'll cheat if the opportunity arises, but he wins cleanly about half the time.

Exactly! Hell, even face Hogan would cheat if the opportunity arose, until he got to WCW and had to overcome the odds all the time...sound familiar?
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Ermac
Title: Thread Killer
Joined: Aug 04 2008
Location: Outworld
PostPosted: Nov 04 2009 04:33 am Reply with quote Back to top

Speaking of the originator of "Cheat 2 Win"



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Knyte
2010 SLF Tag Champ*
Title: Curator Of The VGM
Joined: Nov 01 2006
Location: Here I am.
PostPosted: Nov 04 2009 10:05 am Reply with quote Back to top

The best Cena ever was as a face was his match at WM20. He tried to win normally, couldn't, and then cheated by using his chain wrapped around his hand to knock the Big Show stupid. Which bounced Big Show off the ropes and gave Cena the leverage to give him the FU.

It was not only good booking for Cena, but it was also good booking for The Big Show.

Nowadays, Cena can just FU Big Show at will, which is BS. Not to mention that everytime you can see Big Show jump up so Cena can get him on his shoulders.
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Ba'al
Title: Zerg Zergling
Joined: Mar 02 2008
Location: Uranus
PostPosted: Nov 04 2009 12:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Putting someone on your shoulders isn't that hard either, alot easier than say Jackknifing Big Show like Kevin Nash did.


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