SydLexia.com - The Forums :: View topic - Batman fans, Mark Hammil vs. Heath Ledger

Joined: Sep 17 2007 Location: The Opium Trail Posts: 3474

Jokers...duh

I think I'm gonna go with Hammil on this one and I have two reasons why. The creators/writers/directors of the show understood that he's a psychopathic killer, but they couldn't have him actually kill anyone because the Animated Series was a children's show. But if they were given the creative freedom that Christopher Nolan was given, we'd have seen stuff that was just as brutal as the pencil through the eye. In fact, this clip from a Batman animated movie comes pretty damn close in terms of evil to anything Heath Ledger's ever done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QPGqqLYSjg

My other argument is I remember watching an interview with Paul Dini (head writer of the Animated Series) and he said that they struck a perfect balance with the Joker as opposed to either being a harmless clown or a psychotic killer, furthermore adding that the latter completely defeats the purpose of the character.

That latter description is exactly what Heath Ledger was. I mean if you take off the makeup, you have just a vicious serial killer. There was very little humor in what Heath did and why the fuck would you call yourself the Joker if there is no humor to what you do?

The other thing is I've tried reading Batman books in both "Joker voices" (stop laughing. No for real, stop laughing) and when Heath's comes up it just sounds too [why so] serious. There are just some flat out silly lines from Joker and there's just no way that Nolan takes the Joker too seriously to have him deliver those lines, yet that's the character. I mean really, can anyone picture the "song and dance" scene in Killing Joke voiced by Heath Ledger?

THAT is why Mark Hammil is the best Joker. I'm actually stoked about the Arkham Asylum game coming out, hopefully they show this Joker doing some real fucking damage.

Posted: Aug 07 2009 02:51 am

Both were good, but I have to go with Hammil on this one.

Posted: Aug 07 2009 07:33 am

Cesar Romero.

Anyway, I'd say Hammil is the one most people will associate as far as the voice and laugh goes, especially folks who were kids in the 90s and that was their first exposure to Joker. But Ledger is closer to replicating the comic character. The Joker was initially a cold killer and still was the last I saw (Infinite Crisis was the last DC I read). It's sometimes presented in a funny way, or he'll say an amusing line or whatever, like when he shot Alexander Luthor, for example.

But this is the same character that beat Jason Todd to death with a crowbar and then blew him up. Who shot Batgirl and paralyzed her, then put naked pictures of her up for her own father to see. He's not always a funny character, and I don't think he's necessarily meant to be humorous, which is why they had Ledger go dark with it.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

On screen I don't think that Mark Hammil could have played the Joker's physical character as well as Heath Ledger or Jack Nicholson. Then again I doubt either of them could have played Luke Skywalker.

Acting aside and just for the sake of voice comparison, I do like Mark as the joker. His voice fits the part without much forced effort.

Joined: Sep 17 2007 Location: The Opium Trail Posts: 3474

GPFontaine wrote:

On screen I don't think that Mark Hammil could have played the Joker's physical character as well as Heath Ledger or Jack Nicholson. Then again I doubt either of them could have played Luke Skywalker.

Acting aside and just for the sake of voice comparison, I do like Mark as the joker. His voice fits the part without much forced effort.

Yea but didn't Mark just play himself for Luke?

Posted: Aug 08 2009 04:53 am

GPFontaine wrote:

On screen I don't think that Mark Hammil could have played the Joker's physical character as well as Heath Ledger or Jack Nicholson. Then again I doubt either of them could have played Luke Skywalker.

Acting aside and just for the sake of voice comparison, I do like Mark as the joker. His voice fits the part without much forced effort.

He was good as Cock-knocker though.

Posted: Aug 08 2009 10:40 am

Bouya wrote:

But Ledger is closer to replicating the comic character. The Joker was initially a cold killer and still was the last I saw

This is a popular line, it's wrong, and I'm sick of hearing it repeated. The Golden Age sucked. Hardcore. It is unreadable, goofy trash with some violence thrown in for good measure. The only thing worse than the Golden Age is the Silver Age, because the Comics Code Authority kept violence out of the comics, so the stories got even goofier. If all DC characters were still following their Golden Age personas and speech patterns, no one would read comic books. So it really doesn't matter how the characters were portrayed originally.

The reality is that the Joker has been portrayed several different ways since his 1940 introduction, depending on both who was writing the book and what the political climate surrounding comic books was at the time. And one the most popular portrayals of the Joker, the one in Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, isn't even canon. There is no definitive Joker, there's just whatever Joker you happen to like the best. But there were never objectively or definitively be, a "true" or "best" Joker.

Posted: Aug 08 2009 03:55 pm

GPFontaine wrote:

On screen I don't think that Mark Hammil could have played the Joker's physical character as well as Heath Ledger or Jack Nicholson.

Honestly, that's what I thought about Ledger when I first heard that he was cast, I and many others were very skeptical about him playing Joker, yet he did a phenomenal job. Who knows how Hammill would have performed as a live incarnation of the Joker.

Joined: Feb 16 2008 Posts: 832

I thought The Joker was hilarious in The Dark Knight, and practically every time he was onscreen was terrific creepy comedy (especially the hospital scene)
I do like Mark Hamill though, but they're both great.

Posted: Aug 08 2009 09:28 pm

I quess I'll go with Mark Hamill but I loved pretty much every other person to play the Joker. I'm going with Hamill because I watched the animated series so much and loved it.

Posted: Aug 09 2009 09:10 am

Syd Lexia wrote:

Bouya wrote:

But Ledger is closer to replicating the comic character. The Joker was initially a cold killer and still was the last I saw

This is a popular line, it's wrong, and I'm sick of hearing it repeated. The Golden Age sucked. Hardcore. It is unreadable, goofy trash with some violence thrown in for good measure. The only thing worse than the Golden Age is the Silver Age, because the Comics Code Authority kept violence out of the comics, so the stories got even goofier. If all DC characters were still following their Golden Age personas and speech patterns, no one would read comic books. So it really doesn't matter how the characters were portrayed originally.

The reality is that the Joker has been portrayed several different ways since his 1940 introduction, depending on both who was writing the book and what the political climate surrounding comic books was at the time. And one the most popular portrayals of the Joker, the one in Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, isn't even canon. There is no definitive Joker, there's just whatever Joker you happen to like the best. But there were never objectively or definitively be, a "true" or "best" Joker.

Then how about "Ledger more closely portrays multiple versions of how the Joker has been presented in the past 70 years in the comics", then? You can be sick of it all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that the Joker's persona is a killer first and humorous second. Sorry.

Posted: Aug 10 2009 12:25 am

Mark Hamill, easily. He has the sinister yet whimsical characteristics of Joker and originally managed to present it in a way suitable for children. Now THAT'S fucking talent right there! Ledger was also brilliant, but overall Hamill managed to do Joker with more versatility (as a voice actor, at least), IMO.

Sidenote: I think Hamill's greatest performance as Mr. J would be in Batman: Mask of the Phantasm. Because the movie was more edgy than the cartoon from which it spawned, so was the Joker this time. That part when he gasses the councilman while holding the helpless man down on his desk and laughs -- indicating he has fun doing his evil deed -- is creepy as hell, let alone for a cartoon movie.

Posted: Aug 10 2009 11:24 am

Fuck all y'all. Steve Miller is the only true Joker.

Posted: Aug 10 2009 12:17 pm

This isn't really the correct forum for this since it's about actors and not books...