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Scientology on trial in France


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APLETHORAOFPINATAS
Joined: Jun 10 2008
PostPosted: May 29 2009 10:11 am Reply with quote Back to top

Europe in general doesn't have a very high opinion of Scientology and it now appears that France could be on the verge of kicking them out of the country for scamming people. Germany and France both do not consider Scientology a religion but the US, for some reason does. What do you think about this? Should peopel be allowed to just make up modern belief systems and have them considered religions?


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Dr. Jeebus
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Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: May 29 2009 11:11 am Reply with quote Back to top

Scientology is bullshit and really is just a scam. I'm not saying there isn't room in the world for new religions, but Scientology should not be considered one.


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Burt Reynolds
Title: Bentley Bear
Joined: Apr 07 2008
Location: California
PostPosted: May 29 2009 12:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Dr. Jeebus wrote:
Scientology is bullshit and really is just a scam. I'm not saying there isn't room in the world for new religions, but Scientology should not be considered one.

Yeah, the fact that it is a money making scheme that gets tax exemption due to its status as a religion is whats infuriating.


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Ice2SeeYou
Title: Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Joined: Sep 28 2008
Location: South of Heaven
PostPosted: May 29 2009 01:04 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I think you should be free to worship whoever/whatever you want. So long as I retain my right to make fun of you.


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TheRoboSleuth
Title: Sleuth Mark IV
Joined: Aug 08 2006
Location: The Gritty Future
PostPosted: May 29 2009 01:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I don't know. I mean, its obviously a way to extract money out of people and I dont like them, but at the same time I don't like most religions. Moreso for them and the Mormons, but thats just because we have their filthy origins on record. All religions look to me like they were started at one point by some overrated mammal who was either crazy or manipulative, certainly shamans who use sleight of hand in their work don't believe wholly in what they do.

Thats neither here nor there. The important thing is how do you distinguish between a religion like scientology and the others by anything more substantial than legacy?


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Cattivo
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Location: Lake Michigan
PostPosted: May 29 2009 01:29 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm conflicted of this. Technically, it's a religion, so it should be protected by democratic rights. However, it is an obvious scam that needs to be ridiculed as a cult. Plus, I love it when people call a spade a spade. The more attention brought to the deceptive profit motive of scientology, and its dangers as a cult, the better, but I'm hesitant to deny basic rights, even if they're bogusly setup like scientology.
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APLETHORAOFPINATAS
Joined: Jun 10 2008
PostPosted: May 29 2009 01:29 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
Thats neither here nor there. The important thing is how do you distinguish between a religion like scientology and the others by anything more substantial than legacy?


i think the difference is this: in Christianity (real mainstream stuff) and almost all other major religions you are not REQUIRED to give money to the church in order to "advance" spiritually. you are certainly encouraged to do so but they never threaten to cut you off or banish you or whatever if you don't give them money.


In a way, each of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us. But as sure as my name is Lucky Day, the people of Santa Poco can conquer their own personal El Guapo, who also happens to be *the actual* El Guapo!
 
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Cattivo
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Location: Lake Michigan
PostPosted: May 29 2009 01:30 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Good approach there plethora.
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ReeperTheSeeker
Joined: Aug 26 2007
PostPosted: May 29 2009 01:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Even CHARLES MANSON knew Scientology was bogus.

http://www.cracked.com/article_14932_p10.html

yes, a homicidal manic knew Scientology was insane. I especially love the line:

"Batshit insane, but knows total bullshit when he sees it."

When i first heard the word "Scientology" i thought it was about some group who made scientific belief their religion (as the name implies). But then i heard about Xenu and that Tom Cruise joined and immediately knew then that it had nothing to do with Science.

Which I'm disappointed about to, why the heck isn't there a religion that basis their belief on scientific fact . . . or is that Atheism?


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Little Mac
Joined: Mar 25 2009
PostPosted: May 29 2009 01:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

They made up a religion based on a book written in the 20th century by a crazy man who believed he knew what had happened millions of years prior to his birth. Wow. Even Joseph Smith managed to keep it more believable by saying that everything was happening in "real-time", and even that story reeks of bullshit.


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Neutral-Bob
Title: Zarkin Frood
Joined: Aug 17 2006
Location: Casa Del Guapo
PostPosted: May 29 2009 04:23 pm Reply with quote Back to top

RobotGumshoe wrote:
I don't know. I mean, its obviously a way to extract money out of people and I dont like them, but at the same time I don't like most religions. Moreso for them and the Mormons, but thats just because we have their filthy origins on record. All religions look to me like they were started at one point by some overrated mammal who was either crazy or manipulative, certainly shamans who use sleight of hand in their work don't believe wholly in what they do.

Thats neither here nor there. The important thing is how do you distinguish between a religion like scientology and the others by anything more substantial than legacy?
QFT or whatever they say.

I'm areligious myself and I tend to stay away from religious conversations however Scientology shouldn't have the clout that it does. Aside from the general knowledge that Hubbard was a pill-popping nut who made outrageous claims in his books regarding his area of expertise he also...

Eh...it's already been said time and time again. The guy started a "religion" that has the ability banish members based solely upon their financial status Besides that it's the only "religion" I can think of that has a founder born within the past one-hundred years, a founder who was proven in numerous situations to be a hipocritical liar who could hardly be trusted to oversee the production of a house of cards, much less a full scale "religion".


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Dr. Jeebus
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Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: May 29 2009 04:33 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Little Mac wrote:
They made up a religion based on a book written in the 20th century by a crazy man who believed he knew what had happened millions of years prior to his birth. Wow. Even Joseph Smith managed to keep it more believable by saying that everything was happening in "real-time", and even that story reeks of bullshit.

In all fairness, L. Ron Hubbard wasn't crazy. I was under the impression he had made a wager with someone to see who could make $1,000,000 first, and his means of doing so was to create a religion. That sounds pretty sane to me.


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Mr. Bomberman
2009 Forum Champion
Title: (still) token black.
Joined: Jan 27 2006
Location: Home of the lost towers
PostPosted: May 29 2009 04:38 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Bleh, let 'em have their own stupid religion. Besides, is a dead guy floating on a cloud really more believable then Xenu?


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ReeperTheSeeker
Joined: Aug 26 2007
PostPosted: May 29 2009 04:41 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Mr. Bomberman wrote:
Bleh, let 'em have their own stupid religion. Besides, is a dead guy floating on a cloud really more believable then Xenu?


Maybe we should all worship haruhi suzumiya Laughing


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Mr. Bomberman
2009 Forum Champion
Title: (still) token black.
Joined: Jan 27 2006
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PostPosted: May 29 2009 04:51 pm Reply with quote Back to top

ReeperTheSeeker wrote:
Mr. Bomberman wrote:
Bleh, let 'em have their own stupid religion. Besides, is a dead guy floating on a cloud really more believable then Xenu?


Maybe we should all worship haruhi suzumiya Laughing


I'm already a Haruhiist... but you can't pay me a million bucks to do the dance =P


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Ba'al
Title: Zerg Zergling
Joined: Mar 02 2008
Location: Uranus
PostPosted: May 29 2009 05:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Cthulhu's my boy.

Scientology was just made by Elrond Hubbard for a bet, he won of course. The reason it's legal in the U.S., is because celebrities use it as a form of publicity if anything, only 10% of them actually believe it most likely.


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Dii Infer
Title: Boobie Engineer
Joined: Jun 01 2007
Location: Texas
PostPosted: May 29 2009 05:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Ba'al wrote:
The reason it's legal in the U.S., is because celebrities use it as a form of publicity if anything, only 10% of them actually believe it most likely.


The fact that the organization is rich enough to hire powerful lawyers doesn't hurt, either.


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Ermac
Title: Thread Killer
Joined: Aug 04 2008
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PostPosted: May 29 2009 05:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

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ReeperTheSeeker
Joined: Aug 26 2007
PostPosted: May 29 2009 06:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Ermac wrote:

approve1! Very Happy


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SoldierHawk
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Joined: Jan 15 2009
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PostPosted: May 29 2009 06:17 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Cattivo wrote:
I'm conflicted of this. Technically, it's a religion, so it should be protected by democratic rights. However, it is an obvious scam that needs to be ridiculed as a cult. Plus, I love it when people call a spade a spade. The more attention brought to the deceptive profit motive of scientology, and its dangers as a cult, the better, but I'm hesitant to deny basic rights, even if they're bogusly setup like scientology.


Well said. I respect people's right to practice what they will. If someone wants to purge thetans and hook themselves up to machines and take personality tests and worship Xenu, then God bless 'em (so to speak.) I don't look down on native cultures for praying to the sun or a volcano or animals, either.

However, the "church" itself is a crock of shit designed by a few rich and powerful people to take advantage of the gullible and well intentioned, and they do a damn good job of it. Its not all that far off from bullshit practices like indulgences. The way I see it, churches have the right to solicit donations fro their believers, of course. They even have the right to put something about donation in their doctrine if they like (tithing in Christianity for example). But Scientology doesn't do that. Scientology asks people to pay money to be purged of thetans (or what the hell ever it is they do.) The more you pay, the better service you get. That's trading goods and services for money, and that's called being a business.

People have the right to believe whatever they want. But some corporation isn't automatically protected by law just because it makes up a story that some people believe, and names itself a religion.


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Cattivo
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Location: Lake Michigan
PostPosted: May 29 2009 07:23 pm Reply with quote Back to top

SoldierHawk wrote:
Its not all that far off from bullshit practices like indulgences.

Excellent point.
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TheRoboSleuth
Title: Sleuth Mark IV
Joined: Aug 08 2006
Location: The Gritty Future
PostPosted: May 29 2009 09:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Indeed, there we go. A little difficult to prove in court, but we have a basis for how to cut out the obvious scammers from the well intentioned and often well performing major religions.


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anorexorcist
Title: Polar Bear
Joined: May 21 2008
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PostPosted: May 29 2009 09:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Dr. Jeebus wrote:
Scientology is bullshit and really is just a scam. I'm not saying there isn't room in the world for new religions, but Scientology should not be considered one.


Jonestown was a notch above scientology. I suggest they follow suit.


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ReeperTheSeeker
Joined: Aug 26 2007
PostPosted: May 29 2009 10:13 pm Reply with quote Back to top

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lavalarva
2011 SNES Champ
Joined: Dec 04 2006
PostPosted: May 30 2009 04:43 am Reply with quote Back to top

I learned about Scientology from South Park, searched on the net about it, and was surprised the episode was actually pretty accurate.

But I don't really care that much, partly because I'm currently REALLY pissed off at the Christian church for saying something in the lines of abortion being worse than rape.
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