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Haddox
Flying Hellfish
Title: Pirate
Joined: May 11 2006
Location: The High Seas
Posts: 174
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Hey moderators, I know this thread violates the site rules, but I posted it anyway because I felt like it. Also, people like me, so if you lock it or move it, someone's gonna start a new thread asking what happened to the old thread and call you all assholes. If they don't do that, they're at least gonna whine about it on IRC and write mean things about you in the chat bot's dictionary.
Anyway, could you guys please just watch this thread and only move it if it gets TOO out of hand? K, thx.
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Ba'al
Title: Zerg Zergling
Joined: Mar 02 2008
Location: Uranus
Posts: 2286
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16127
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lol. well this is pointless
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Klimbatize wrote: |
I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load |
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jackfrost
Title: Cold Hearted Bastard
Joined: Feb 21 2009
Posts: 861
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Well done.
Not entirely username. It makes a point, but you need to know what the point is.
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SevereFlame
Title: Superpowered President
Joined: Dec 07 2008
Location: White House In The Sky
Posts: 529
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All your face are belong to Haddox.
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Black Zarak
Title: Big Coffin Hunter
Joined: Feb 01 2006
Location: Phyrexia
Posts: 4098
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I missed someone posting a pointless thread, didn't I?
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REVIEWS, LEGOS, NONSENSE Check out Zarak's Barracks!
"Let that be a lesson to you, your family and everyone you've ever known..."
"Thanks to denial, I'm immortal!" |
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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
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I am guessing it was mine.
It was an entertaining video that fringes on the border of one of the rules. It seemed like something that people would enjoy, but conversation about it could have gotten out of hand since it was religiously guided.
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Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 5228
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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
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Dr. Jeebus wrote: |
I missed the thread, but if you know it's against the rules why post it? Just post it in the nWo if you want to share it so much. |
I broke rule 6. To be honest, I don't understand rule 6. It wasn't my intention to piss anyone off or cause this thread to appear. As far as I could tell, the video wasn't breaking the rules, but the conversation that it lead to, could have. In retrospect I wish I hadn't posted it. It was something I found fun and I guess I was wrong.
Still, Haddox chill out, I am not out to get you or anyone else. I enjoy this site as much as everyone else and I'm not interested in turning it into a bad place to be.
Also, Rule 18.
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Haddox
Flying Hellfish
Title: Pirate
Joined: May 11 2006
Location: The High Seas
Posts: 174
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My understanding is that the video probably would have been allowed if it didn't have the citations. They added a level of snarkiness that was completely unnecessary and uncalled for, which ruined the tone of what would have been an otherwise lighthearted video.
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Cattivo
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Location: Lake Michigan
Posts: 3332
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Yeah GP, feel free to post videos that mock my religion any time you want. It's just the basis of my faith, so it does not matter at all.
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JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
Posts: 6544
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Chill out guys, I realize religion is important to everyone and what not, but if we get the point to where we can't laugh at something silly then that's just a bummer for any forum. If anyone get's seriously bothered by it, let it be known instead of just assuming people will be offended.
I have christian values but I also have that elusive thing that most people of the faith lack; a sense of humor. None of it would ever bother me, and the only thing that does bug me involving faith is when people start turning Superstition into Legislation.
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Rycona
Moderator
Title: The Maestro
Joined: Nov 01 2005
Location: Away from Emerald Weapon
Posts: 2815
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joshwoodzell wrote: |
Chill out guys, I realize religion is important to everyone and what not, but if we get the point to where we can't laugh at something silly then that's just a bummer for any forum. If anyone get's seriously bothered by it, let it be known instead of just assuming people will be offended.
I have christian values but I also have that elusive thing that most people of the faith lack; a sense of humor. None of it would ever bother me, and the only thing that does bug me involving faith is when people start turning Superstition into Legislation. |
I concur wholeheartedly, except that I'm not a person of faith, so take that as you will.
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 RIP Hacker. |
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Haddox
Flying Hellfish
Title: Pirate
Joined: May 11 2006
Location: The High Seas
Posts: 174
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I enjoy religious satire when it's well done. South Park has taken on Christianity in general and the Catholic Church specifically several times, and most of them have been great. The movies Dogma and Life Of Brian are also incredibly clever - and funny - bits of religious satire.
As I said, the passage citations in that particular video ruined an otherwise funny narrative. Why? Because it started to feel like a recruitment video. All in all, religious satire only tends to be funny when it's written by either an agnostic or a person of faith, because they entertain the possibility that there's a higher power out there. Well-written religious satire pokes fun at the confusing and sometimes contradictory points of religious doctrine without wholly rejecting the basic ideas therein. Once the outright rejection of a religion's most basic tenets occurs, it quickly becomes cruel vapid bullshit.
There is an unspoken agreement between reasonable people of differing faiths, and it goes something like this: you have your beliefs, I have mine, but we both believe that there's some sort of sentient overseeing force(s) out there, and while we may disagree vastly on the specifics, we both have at least the most basic sense of human decency, so we won't try and convert each other.
With atheists, this agreement is off the table. Since atheists don't believe in any sort of higher power whatsoever, they have no problem with maliciously antagonizing people who think differently from them and attempting to bully and ridicule them into joining the Church of Atheism. There is no religion so virulent, no religion condescending in its treatment of outsiders, no religion so completely intolerant as atheism. Moreso than followers of any other religion, atheists have a vision of a united world under one set of beliefs: theirs. A similar dream has been envisioned by all of history's greatest tyrants. So when an atheist "satirizes" religion, it is NOT satire; it is an assault. It made with the hope that someone somewhere will see it and join the Church of Atheism. And that isn't just mean, that's incredibly petty.
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
Posts: 7565
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If you feel it may be a problem, NWO.
What else needs to be said?
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nihilisticglee
Joined: Oct 12 2007
Posts: 821
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Haddox wrote: |
There is no religion so virulent, no religion condescending in its treatment of outsiders, no religion so completely intolerant as atheism. Moreso than followers of any other religion, atheists have a vision of a united world under one set of beliefs: theirs. |
This is going a little far in my mind. I think of myself as an atheist, and the only time I go around criticize other religions is when others try to go about converting me, which, thankfully, doesn't happen too much where I am. I gladly co-exist with Christians, Jews, Muslims, and other atheists on a regular basis and haven't had too many problems. By lumping all atheist together as one intolerant lump, you aren't helping the problem. By implying all atheist are unreasonable, you are being just as intolerant as the unreasonable atheists. I figure that it is only small percentage of religious, but they are the loud ones who draw attention to themselves. Likewise, it is probably a small percent of atheist who insist on everyone being an atheist, but they are the ones who draw attentions to themselves.
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Haddox
Flying Hellfish
Title: Pirate
Joined: May 11 2006
Location: The High Seas
Posts: 174
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You're absolutely right, I got a too little riled up there. However, I was careful to use some qualifying terms in my criticism. And at the same time, I've been friends with Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Protestants, Unitarians, and atheists, and only atheists have ever tried to convert me.
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jackfrost
Title: Cold Hearted Bastard
Joined: Feb 21 2009
Posts: 861
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I don't care what anybody believes in, but it seems like some athiests do push their agenda too far. There was a case here a few years ago where an atheist was offended by a cross set up on the side of the road as a memorial to someboday killed in an auto accident. The ACLU supported them and got the cross taken down because it was on public property. I just fail to understand how a cross on the side of the road is offensive. If you aren't religious it should have no meaning to you, so how can you be offended. I am Christian, and if I saw a memorial set up with a Star of David I certainly wouldn't be offended. And I am sure there were many Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus passing that cross every day and not giving it any thought. I'm positive most atheists are respectful towards those that are religious, but it seems any time a stink is made like the one in my example its an atheist doing it, not somebody that practices another religion. It is those atheists that give the rest a bad name. If you want an example of what an atheist asshole is just look up Bill Maher.
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Neutral-Bob
Title: Zarkin Frood
Joined: Aug 17 2006
Location: Casa Del Guapo
Posts: 964
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I'm areligious, however it bothers me when people do stuff like that. I was always content to let people go about their lives believing what they wanted to believe. Trying to convert someone feels akin to killing someone's hopes and dreams. But...that's just me.
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 "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." - C.S Lewis |
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Ross Rifle
Title: Rock N Roll God
Joined: Oct 29 2006
Location: Chilliwack, BC
Posts: 4844
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"I'm not religious, I'm athiest!" Fuck, athiesm is making a religion out of non-religion. Stupid.
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TheRoboSleuth
Title: Sleuth Mark IV
Joined: Aug 08 2006
Location: The Gritty Future
Posts: 2739
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I'd like to note that the highway crosses thing was specifically about the state providing funds for the crosses, and was started by a state/church seperation watchdog group, which like their named animal have a tendancy to bark at anyone passing by(I've been of the opinion that the state is in their right to provide tombstones in that instance of the person's if they left instruction or the families choice).
Most young athiests have a chip on their shoulder, typically caused by being a member of a small group that feels like their under attack(and are in some cases, if only legally or socially) and a personality type that inclines towards iconoclasm and a smug intellectual self-certainty(if you aren't a self styled intellectual, your probably a non admitting agnostic, and if you aren't wholly certain of your ideas your an open agnostic ala Socrates).
Unfortunately, they don't have the peer groups to get beyond that, and oft spend their lives angry and bitter at the strong presence of religion in the world. The emotional stunted growth reeks of ressentiment and leaves me saddened by the death of potential. A good athiest needs to adopt a bit of stoicism and idealism, moving on to a higher moral system that puts the emphasis on helping others and fully accepts the moral responsibility that comes with being sentient. There are no angels or demons, we alone are responsible for the good and evil in the world.
Syd, you should be careful of anecdotal evidence, as it pertains to religious conversion and intolorance. Hindus, jews, and (at least in america) muslims have little power and/or enthusiam for converting other faiths. Im not sure on unitarians, and I'm not sure on the population of protestants in your area. A logic check would also note that Mormons, Jehovah's, and southern babtists are beyond your experience going to statistically be more likely to try and convert a person(and their all proud of it). Intolerance, one need only check the world map and find any number of examples of religions killing each other, from the irish/english, varying factions of muslims, India/Pakistan, Serbs and Croats, etc. Another logic check would point out that this is also very statistically likely, and the line of religion and culture are not so much blurred as blended, but religion plays a part in the prolonging of these conflicts by cultural indoctrinization and inciting and condoning violence.
As an additional counter to the anecdotal evidence, some of my own. My extended family on my mothers side, the only ones I have contact with, are varying levels of practicing catholic. I'm not openly athiest, and in conversation have disclosed a virulent hatred of athiests. My mother has blamed them for inciting god's wrath on america, despite being lapsed. I carry no delusions that if I came out (so to speak) I would be mostly disowned by my family, and I'm not willing at this stage to do so.
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anorexorcist
Title: Polar Bear
Joined: May 21 2008
Location: The Cock and Plucket
Posts: 2131
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Syd is very deffensive about catholicism from what I can tell, and someone said Haddox was Syds Alt. Not sure of the truth to that though.
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 Lawyers, Guns and Money |
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Cattivo
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Location: Lake Michigan
Posts: 3332
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Sorry I'm late, but grad school's been keeping me occupied.
Allow me to echo Haddox's comments. I have a healthy sense of humor when it comes to religion, too healthy according to my more devout friends. I have thoroughly enjoyed all South Park parodies of Catholicism, with the only exception of the "Bloody Mary" episode. That was in bad taste. That's the crux of it all - if it's in good taste and not needlessly mocking, it can be very funny and make some erudite observations about some of the problems and highlights of religion & Catholicism. Films like Dogma have succeeded very well in this - except for that shit demon, that scene was just disgusting.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24882
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The "Bloody Mary" episode didn't bother me, though I know the Church was quite displeased with it. "Red Hot Catholic Love" was fantastic.
The religious commentary in the "Magaritaville" episode rubbed me the wrong way at first, but I've gotten over it.
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Eddie_Hyde
Title: Ernie with the Disposal
Joined: Apr 13 2009
Location: Gulag
Posts: 707
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Haddox wrote: |
I enjoy religious satire when it's well done. South Park has taken on Christianity in general and the Catholic Church specifically several times, and most of them have been great. The movies Dogma and Life Of Brian are also incredibly clever - and funny - bits of religious satire.
As I said, the passage citations in that particular video ruined an otherwise funny narrative. Why? Because it started to feel like a recruitment video. All in all, religious satire only tends to be funny when it's written by either an agnostic or a person of faith, because they entertain the possibility that there's a higher power out there. Well-written religious satire pokes fun at the confusing and sometimes contradictory points of religious doctrine without wholly rejecting the basic ideas therein. Once the outright rejection of a religion's most basic tenets occurs, it quickly becomes cruel vapid bullshit.
There is an unspoken agreement between reasonable people of differing faiths, and it goes something like this: you have your beliefs, I have mine, but we both believe that there's some sort of sentient overseeing force(s) out there, and while we may disagree vastly on the specifics, we both have at least the most basic sense of human decency, so we won't try and convert each other.
With atheists, this agreement is off the table. Since atheists don't believe in any sort of higher power whatsoever, they have no problem with maliciously antagonizing people who think differently from them and attempting to bully and ridicule them into joining the Church of Atheism. There is no religion so virulent, no religion condescending in its treatment of outsiders, no religion so completely intolerant as atheism. Moreso than followers of any other religion, atheists have a vision of a united world under one set of beliefs: theirs. A similar dream has been envisioned by all of history's greatest tyrants. So when an atheist "satirizes" religion, it is NOT satire; it is an assault. It made with the hope that someone somewhere will see it and join the Church of Atheism. And that isn't just mean, that's incredibly petty. |
Please don't make these broad, nasty generalizations about atheists. Like any religion, they have moderates, zealots and assholes, but not all of them are like this. Though I consider myself agnostic more than anything else, I do not think that it is fair to see somebody bash any belief system like this. Because you saying this is like me telling you that all Jews are styngy, heartless money hoarders (not true), Catholics are ban-crazy asswipe missionaries (also not true). These things are stereotypes, and I sincerely hope that NONE of them get prepetuated in the future onm these boards.
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