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The Soviet Republic of Americanistan


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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Mar 03 2011 02:30 pm Reply with quote Back to top

FNJ this is a political thread.



Try to watch at least the first 2:40.

"If you don't say where the idea is coming from, big majorities of Americans support really, really, really liberal policies."

I find it very interesting that the average American misbrands themselves based on the choice of title they would like to have for their political selves.



 
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Vaenamoenen
Joined: Mar 18 2010
Location: Tuonela
PostPosted: Mar 03 2011 02:39 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The classic story of modern left is, that everybody wants what they want when it comes to economic policies, but nobody votes them. Not suprising though, as many votes are based on moral issues.

(I watched the first 2:40).
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SNESGuy
Title: El Duderino
Joined: Jul 31 2010
Location: Da D.C
PostPosted: Mar 03 2011 04:35 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I first thought this thread was about nation states, well anyways i believe this is actually correct because i know "republicans" that wanted the democrats to win the house


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sidewaydriver
2010 SLF Tag Champ
Title: ( ͡� &#8
Joined: May 11 2008
PostPosted: Mar 03 2011 04:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

What a bitch, she sounds so condescending. I don't believe we need to tax millionaires more. They made their money, they should keep it. We need a flat tax all across the board.


Shake it, Quake it, Space Kaboom.
 
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Valdronius
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Title: SydLexia COO
Joined: Aug 22 2005
Location: The Great White North
PostPosted: Mar 03 2011 04:57 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I was under the impression that several millionaires actually inherited their wealth.


Klimbatize wrote:
A Hispanic dude living in Arizona knows a lot of Latinas? That's fucking odd.

 
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sidewaydriver
2010 SLF Tag Champ
Title: ( ͡� &#8
Joined: May 11 2008
PostPosted: Mar 03 2011 04:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Lucky them, but someone made that money and just because it got passed down, doesn't mean anyone else is entitled to it.


Shake it, Quake it, Space Kaboom.
 
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Klimbatize
2010 NES Champ
Title: 2011 Picnic/Death Champ
Joined: Mar 15 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV
PostPosted: Mar 03 2011 05:04 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The fact is most millionaires pay a lower tax rate than people who make less than $100K a year due to tax breaks and loopholes that are abused. Also, economies run better when the middle class is supporting it, not the wealthy. The problem with all the economic "growth" in the '00s was that it was all at the top, while the middle class's average salary actually shrunk. That set up means a recovery from a recession is harder.

Most wealthy people don't want a flat tax, believe me.


Pretty much the greatest thread of all time: http://www.sydlexia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14789

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Deadmau_5pra
Title: Amatuer film/podcaster
Joined: Feb 10 2009
Location: Chicago Area
PostPosted: Mar 03 2011 05:16 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Not a fan of Maddow, even through we'd pretty much agree on the same shit.


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aeonic
Title: Sporadic Poster
Joined: Nov 19 2009
Location: Kissimmee, FL
PostPosted: Mar 03 2011 05:23 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm all for a flat tax, honestly. And to be fair, anymore, there's no real difference between Republicans and Democrats save for the one they want us to perceive. They're all about lining their pockets first.


Who likes role-playing games? Me. Way too goddamn much.
 
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Jack Slater
Title: Friendly Felon
Joined: May 17 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
PostPosted: Mar 03 2011 07:57 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Klimbatize wrote:


Most wealthy people don't want a flat tax, believe me.


Truly wealthy people don't give a shit what the tax rate is. Tax all you want, they're still going to be wealthy.

The fact that most of their wealth is in trusts and foundations helps, but really taking a few million from a billionaire is going to hurt him far less than taking 3 grand from somebody that only makes 25K.


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Dr. Jeebus
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Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Mar 03 2011 11:49 pm Reply with quote Back to top

MSNBC is the liberal equivalent of Fox News. People just don't realize it cause no one actually watches MSNBC.


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Sarge
Title: The Self-Titler
Joined: Aug 14 2010
PostPosted: Mar 04 2011 12:24 am Reply with quote Back to top

Hasn't anyone read Executive Orders? Jack Ryan knows how to fix the tax system.


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Optimist With Doubts
Title: Titlating
Joined: Dec 17 2007
PostPosted: Mar 04 2011 12:29 am Reply with quote Back to top

.............



..........













I agree with jeebus! 0_o


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Klimbatize
2010 NES Champ
Title: 2011 Picnic/Death Champ
Joined: Mar 15 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV
PostPosted: Mar 04 2011 02:24 am Reply with quote Back to top

I don't. MSNBC is absolutely slanted, but they don't manufacture and manipulate stories even close to the extent that FOX News does. People who equate the two aren't paying close enough attention.


Pretty much the greatest thread of all time: http://www.sydlexia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14789

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Pandajuice
Title: The Power of Grayskull
Joined: Oct 30 2008
Location: US and UK
PostPosted: Mar 04 2011 07:30 am Reply with quote Back to top

Klimbatize wrote:
The fact is most millionaires pay a lower tax rate than people who make less than $100K a year due to tax breaks and loopholes that are abused.


A lot of people think that, but it isn't true. The rich pay a retarded amount of taxes compared to the few thousand per year you and other middle class people pay. Don't believe this "loopholes" nonsense that gets tossed around.

It always makes me laugh when liberals say, "the rich need to pay their fair share" when the rich pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes every year, far more than most people will pay in their lifetime. I don't think it's very fair that just because they have more, they should pay more.

I'm all for a flat tax becuase that's truly fair (note: fair does not always mean "good", it just means "equal for all parties".

My mother-in-law just recently lose her husband, and because he was fairly well off, she's having to now go through his estate and pay inheritence taxes (again by the way, because he paid taxes on the money/goods when he earned it) on the entire thing which has added up to an oscene amount - just because the guy died and wanted his income and belongings to pass down to his wife. Then guess what? When she dies and it passes down to my wife, she'll have to pay taxes on it AGAIN. So retarded; thanks liberals.
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Vaenamoenen
Joined: Mar 18 2010
Location: Tuonela
PostPosted: Mar 04 2011 08:44 am Reply with quote Back to top

Pandajuice wrote:
I'm all for a flat tax becuase that's truly fair (note: fair does not always mean "good", it just means "equal for all parties".

And of course, "equal for all parties" doesn't necessarily translate as "same for all parties".
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aeonic
Title: Sporadic Poster
Joined: Nov 19 2009
Location: Kissimmee, FL
PostPosted: Mar 04 2011 09:28 am Reply with quote Back to top

Some animals are more equal than others, Vaen.


Who likes role-playing games? Me. Way too goddamn much.
 
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Vaenamoenen
Joined: Mar 18 2010
Location: Tuonela
PostPosted: Mar 04 2011 09:34 am Reply with quote Back to top

^ You do know that Orwell meant that as satire towards inequality?
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aeonic
Title: Sporadic Poster
Joined: Nov 19 2009
Location: Kissimmee, FL
PostPosted: Mar 04 2011 12:03 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Vaenamoenen wrote:
^ You do know that Orwell meant that as satire towards inequality?


Sorry, I forgot to put [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags on that.


Who likes role-playing games? Me. Way too goddamn much.
 
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sidewaydriver
2010 SLF Tag Champ
Title: ( ͡� &#8
Joined: May 11 2008
PostPosted: Mar 04 2011 12:06 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Better yet, we shouldn't have income tax at all. We should only be taxed on things we buy. There'd be a price hike on everything but you'll keep everything you make. I don't know how feasible it would be but it sure sounds good.


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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Mar 04 2011 12:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

There is a certain amount of money that is required in order to survive as a middle class American. If you consider home ownership to be part of that survival I would argue that the amount ranges between $65,000 - $90,000 per family.

If your family makes less money than that, you are going to struggle and have a hard time. You might have to sacrifice a car, which means no job for one partner. You might have to sacrifice having children. Or you might have to live somewhere you do not wish to, such as urban vs suburban vs country.

To many people those numbers seem high, especially amongst people who have not yet had careers. For single individuals the number is different, but it is disproportionate. To own property as a single person, I would argue that you need to make at least $50,000 - $60,000 at a minimum.

The problem is that these numbers keep going up yet average pay for middle class jobs is not rising at the same rate.

This means that people have to shop smarter to maintain the same lifestyle. Thanks to large corporate stores we are able to get the best "bang for our buck", sadly killing off smaller shops at the same time.

The larger corporations don't pay the average middle class workers higher salaries, but they do pay executives very well. So the discrepancy between middle class and upper class grows, while the gap between middle class and poverty begins to shrink.

It would balance out if the corporations were paying taxes, but they are subsidized and or able to sneak past with legal loopholes. In addition the richest executives make enough money that they aren't seeing the same troubles.

Ultimately it is a question of surviving. How does American want to survive? Should this be a land where the general population struggles and becomes further and further separated from the rich while the average family becomes closer to poor? Should schools, public utilities, and community offerings suffer because the average tax payer can't handle the burden any longer?

This is a very fine line because the rich have definitely earned their money, but without re-balancing this system, it will continue in its current direction.

I believe that before we tax the rich, we must close tax loopholes for major corporations, and end subsidies for companies that generate profits. If you make money, you don't need help.

However, if it ultimately comes down to 1% of the country having 99% of the wealth then we have a problem because that ratio used to be 20% of the country with 80% of the wealth. It is a failed system that brings us to this point, and we may not be able to fix it without first cleaning up a mess that shouldn't have existed in the first place.



 
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Klimbatize
2010 NES Champ
Title: 2011 Picnic/Death Champ
Joined: Mar 15 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV
PostPosted: Mar 04 2011 12:32 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Pandajuice wrote:
Klimbatize wrote:
The fact is most millionaires pay a lower tax rate than people who make less than $100K a year due to tax breaks and loopholes that are abused.


A lot of people think that, but it isn't true. The rich pay a retarded amount of taxes compared to the few thousand per year you and other middle class people pay. Don't believe this "loopholes" nonsense that gets tossed around.

It always makes me laugh when liberals say, "the rich need to pay their fair share" when the rich pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes every year, far more than most people will pay in their lifetime. I don't think it's very fair that just because they have more, they should pay more.

I'm all for a flat tax becuase that's truly fair (note: fair does not always mean "good", it just means "equal for all parties".

You and I are speaking a different language here. Obviously I don't think middle class Americans pay more taxes total than the wealthy. I'm talking percentages. So no, I'm not throwing around a fallacy. The wealthy pay a lower tax RATE then middle class Americans quite often. I'm talking percentage, not total money.

Also, I don't just think the wealthy should pay their fair share. I fully admit I belive the wealthy should pay a higher tax rate. I'd get into that but it seems like we're near the "LIBERALS RAWR (generalization)" point of the argument so I'll let the economic "experts" on this forum take over from here. I would like to suggest looking at our greatest economic times in our country's history and check out the tax rates. Giving the wealthy more money does not create jobs or help most Americans; giving the cuts to the middle class, in fact, raises all ships.


Pretty much the greatest thread of all time: http://www.sydlexia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14789

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aeonic
Title: Sporadic Poster
Joined: Nov 19 2009
Location: Kissimmee, FL
PostPosted: Mar 04 2011 02:23 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The reason that most wealthy people stay wealthy is because of interest; they have a ton of money in the bank, and it just keeps growing. Louis CK actually did a pretty funny bit about banking fees and fiscal disparity between lower/upper classes that ties in a lot with that, I can't remember where I saw it on, though. Regardless, we've veered off course a bit here, so I'll just put my bits in where they may land.

Tax increases for the wealthy, or for anyone, aren't going to fix the US's fiscal solvency issues, not even by a longshot. The primary problems in the US are lack of production (ie virtually everything, especially with outsourcing for far cheaper labor to India, Mexico, and various Asian countries), the perpetuation of credit as a viable means of payment for things that otherwise exceed the average American's (30K to about 70K) earning potential, and rampant government overspending/reliance on foreign credit/investment. I'm a big proponent of fiscal conservativism, which is why I usually get branded a Republican (and God knows why, considering we haven't seen anything fiscally conservative from that party, or any party for that matter, for ages).


Who likes role-playing games? Me. Way too goddamn much.
 
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JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
PostPosted: Mar 04 2011 06:07 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'd like to think that people on either side of the fence can agree that Rachel Maddow is one of the most unappealing people to look at on television.


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Klimbatize
2010 NES Champ
Title: 2011 Picnic/Death Champ
Joined: Mar 15 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV
PostPosted: Mar 04 2011 06:43 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah. I'm all for disregarding any woman's message if they're not super hot. Gawd, why's she even on TV with that look?


Pretty much the greatest thread of all time: http://www.sydlexia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14789

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