SydLexia.com - The Forums :: View topic - Democrats make move to support gay community

Wizard Joined: Jun 12 2009 Posts: 4209

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/30/gay-marriage-democratic-convention_n_1720030.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices&ir=Gay+Voices&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008

Quote:

According to the Blade, the "language in the platform approved on Sunday not only backs marriage equality, but also rejects DOMA and has positive language with regard to the Employment Non-Discrimination Act. The exact wording of the language wasn’t immediately available."

Well... finally. Ever since Obama announced his support, I had been waiting for something like this. I feel as if I'm not the only one who thinks this came a lot earlier than was expected, though?

EDIT: I don't know why it never occurred to me before, but reading through the comment section on any article like that is sickening. I didn't know such truly close minded people could exist.

Posted: Jul 31 2012 01:32 am

Can we just have an all out civil war over this now?

Posted: Jul 31 2012 01:53 am

For the first, like, ten seconds after I heard Obama was announcing his support of gay marriage, I felt skeptical, considering the next presidential election is coming up soon. But, at this point I'm not really going to look a gift horse in the mouth; I'll take what I can get.

Wizard Joined: Jun 12 2009 Posts: 4209

Seriously. A lot of people have waited long enough for this shit.

Posted: Jul 31 2012 02:13 am

Out of curiosity, how many people are anti-gay rights for any reason other than fundamentalism?

Joined: Apr 09 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3112

People with weird ideas about what it means to be an adult.

Posted: Jul 31 2012 06:47 am

It's hard to believe that a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and all forms of domestic partnership looked like a realistic possibility as little as 8 years ago. Kinda makes you think that we won't even be having this conversation in another 10.

Joined: Aug 04 2009 Posts: 2515

If i was an American i would fully support this.

There is no valid reason to stop other people from doing what they want with their life because their religion says so. It's total bullshit. It needs to be stamped out of society.

These people think they are right and that we should live by their standards. They need to realise that not all of us agree with them.

If YOUR God says that you shouldn't marry gays that's YOUR religion. If i am not of YOUR religion then i don't have to give a fuck about what YOUR God or religion says.

The problem is then that these fuckers influence government and try to get their agenda set into law. That is why i continually argue for the separation of religion and state. It is the biggest load of bullshit. We shouldn't have to dance to their tune because their religion says so.

This is a good change. Bravo USA.

Posted: Jul 31 2012 11:04 am

But if some people don't follow THEIR religion, none of them gets to go to Heaven! That's just not fair any way you look at it.

Joined: Sep 17 2007 Location: The Opium Trail Posts: 3475

Wanna know how to really get in with the gay community? Assassinate Pat Robertson.

Joined: Aug 04 2009 Posts: 2515

The-Excel wrote:

But if some people don't follow THEIR religion, none of them gets to go to Heaven! That's just not fair any way you look at it.

I'm nearly certain that is not how it works within Christianity. If you are a good person you go to heaven. That seems to be it. It isn't "we must convert everyone on earth to our cause" or we go to hell. Christians sent missionaries to spread the word on their religion because they thought it was the best way to live. Not because they would get sent to hell because of it.

So it is fair and i actually can't believe that someone is actually trying to champion that we should all just do what one group wants and blindly just believe what they believe without any reason.

...and if it is then wow it's a pretty flawed religion and i guess they are all going to hell then considering there are at 5 major religions other than Christianity i can think of off the top of my head.

Joined: Apr 09 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3112

The seeds of my religious issues were sewn by my teacher, an Irish Catholic, who basically said "By all accounts of modern Christians, Ghandi would be sent to hell, while every Crusader who slaughtered and raped their way through the Middle East would be let through the gates, by virtue only of believing in God." I still have beliefs (ingrained thanks to parents, or maybe they are truly mine), but I can't imagine that God would damn a kind, unselfish human to hell merely because he or she felt happier in the arms of the same sex.

Posted: Jul 31 2012 09:51 pm

Alowishus wrote:

The-Excel wrote:

But if some people don't follow THEIR religion, none of them gets to go to Heaven! That's just not fair any way you look at it.

I'm nearly certain that is not how it works within Christianity. If you are a good person you go to heaven. That seems to be it. It isn't "we must convert everyone on earth to our cause" or we go to hell. Christians sent missionaries to spread the word on their religion because they thought it was the best way to live. Not because they would get sent to hell because of it.

So it is fair and i actually can't believe that someone is actually trying to champion that we should all just do what one group wants and blindly just believe what they believe without any reason.

...and if it is then wow it's a pretty flawed religion and i guess they are all going to hell then considering there are at 5 major religions other than Christianity i can think of off the top of my head.

Fundamentalists have it figured out that evangelism is a duty of all Christians, and if they fail, then everyone loses. Especially them. The Kingdom of Heaven won't come about until the world is exactly how they think it should be, and if they don't get it done before the Rapture, they'll have a lot of explaining to do. The more abominations they can remove from the world by then, the better the chances that God won't shower the planet with fire and brimstone.

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

Their motivation is to save more souls from eternal damnation. Whether they're right or wrong about this issue, I have no idea. All I know is 1) I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes as long as it isn't damaging to others, 2) strong families are important in creating the next generation, 3) Stating that the more evangelical type of Christians are trying to push for the Apocalypse, as if they were Iranian Muslims pushing for the appearance of the 12th Imam, is incredibly offensive. 4) Making gay marriage officially part of the Democratic Platform will probably do more harm than good to their electoral results at this juncture. However, I can understand the desire to stand up for what they view as "good" and "righteous." And 5) I find devout Christians annoying, as they end up doing more mental harm than good when they push for others to reach an ideal they have rarely met, and it's typically more reflective of their own guilt from their own past indiscretions.

Posted: Aug 01 2012 12:14 pm

I think it's time for the Republicans to stand up to the Fundamentalists:

"Look, you can vote for us, the Republicans, and we'll do our best to be fair to everyone. But, um, it's been like 50 years since guys like Paul Lynde and Liberace first appeared on TV. The gays aren't going anywhere, and we've got to be fair to them too. Now, you can put up your own candidate, but they'll lose. And if you do that, we'll lose too. And then the Democrats win. And they will not treat you fairly. You they will agitate you every chance they get. So you can either shut up and let us run the platform that the American people deserve, or you can forever go down in history as the voting bloc directly responsible for handing Obama a second term."

What's really interesting too is that only non-ambiguous condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible does not come from the New Testament, which are the texts that should be considered most important to a so-called Christian. Instead, it comes from Leviticus, an archaic book of the Bible that details rules for ritual sacrifice, food preparation, food sacrifice. One of my favorite highlights Leviticus 24:5-6, where God demands 12 cakes be baked for him, and placed in 2 rows of 6.

Also:

Leviticus 19:27: "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard."

God commands us to never get haircuts or shave.

Posted: Aug 01 2012 12:16 pm

Cattivo wrote:

Their motivation is to save more souls from eternal damnation. Whether they're right or wrong about this issue, I have no idea. All I know is 1) I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes as long as it isn't damaging to others, 2) strong families are important in creating the next generation, 3) Stating that the more evangelical type of Christians are trying to push for the Apocalypse, as if they were Iranian Muslims pushing for the appearance of the 12th Imam, is incredibly offensive. 4) Making gay marriage officially part of the Democratic Platform will probably do more harm than good to their electoral results at this juncture. However, I can understand the desire to stand up for what they view as "good" and "righteous." And 5) I find devout Christians annoying, as they end up doing more mental harm than good when they push for others to reach an ideal they have rarely met, and it's typically more reflective of their own guilt from their own past indiscretions.

Westboro.

Syd Lexia wrote:

I think it's time for the Republicans to stand up to the Fundamentalists:

"Look, you can vote for us, the Republicans, and we'll do our best to be fair to everyone. But, um, it's been like 50 years since guys like Paul Lynde and Liberace first appeared on TV. The gays aren't going anywhere, and we've got to be fair to them too. Now, you can put up your own candidate, but they'll lose. And if you do that, we'll lose too. And then the Democrats win. And they will not treat you fairly. You they will agitate you every chance they get. So you can either shut up and let us run the platform that the American people deserve, or you can forever go down in history as the voting bloc directly responsible for handing Obama a second term."

What's really interesting too is that only non-ambiguous condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible does not come from the New Testament, which are the texts that should be considered most important to a so-called Christian. Instead, it comes from Leviticus, an archaic book of the Bible that details rules for ritual sacrifice, food preparation, food sacrifice. One of my favorite highlights Leviticus 24:5-6, where God demands 12 cakes be baked for him, and placed in 2 rows of 6.

Also:

Leviticus 19:27: "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard."

God commands us to never get haircuts or shave.

Can I quote this on Facebook and places?

Posted: Aug 01 2012 12:19 pm

You may.

Posted: Aug 01 2012 12:21 pm

Thanks. Should I attribute it to you as well?

Wizard Joined: Jun 12 2009 Posts: 4209

The-Excel wrote:

Cattivo wrote:

Their motivation is to save more souls from eternal damnation. Whether they're right or wrong about this issue, I have no idea. All I know is 1) I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes as long as it isn't damaging to others, 2) strong families are important in creating the next generation, 3) Stating that the more evangelical type of Christians are trying to push for the Apocalypse, as if they were Iranian Muslims pushing for the appearance of the 12th Imam, is incredibly offensive. 4) Making gay marriage officially part of the Democratic Platform will probably do more harm than good to their electoral results at this juncture. However, I can understand the desire to stand up for what they view as "good" and "righteous." And 5) I find devout Christians annoying, as they end up doing more mental harm than good when they push for others to reach an ideal they have rarely met, and it's typically more reflective of their own guilt from their own past indiscretions.

Westboro.

At this point, it's anyone's guess if that's what they really believe or they're doing it to agitate people into lashing out at them. I heard it described as a method for making money--they insult people until they are so anguished that they retaliate, and then the WBC sues for any damages or injuries. They almost always win, so they profit from insulting people.

I could be completely wrong, but that's how it was explained to me and how I now interpret it.

Also, Syd, I'd like to pull that for Facebook as well. Pretty succinctly describes the situation.

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

If anyone deserves to go to Hell, the Westboro people should be lined up directly after genocidal dictators.

Heh, I've been needling my devout Catholic buddy with Leviticus as of late myself. Especially Leviticus 19:28 which forbids tattoos (my friend has a tat of St. Archangel Michael on his left shoulder). I'm beginning to think only the New Testament from the Bible is truly worthy (along with the Ten Commandments from the OT).

Joined: Oct 19 2009 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1479

The-Excel wrote:

Alowishus wrote:

The-Excel wrote:

But if some people don't follow THEIR religion, none of them gets to go to Heaven! That's just not fair any way you look at it.

I'm nearly certain that is not how it works within Christianity. If you are a good person you go to heaven. That seems to be it. It isn't "we must convert everyone on earth to our cause" or we go to hell. Christians sent missionaries to spread the word on their religion because they thought it was the best way to live. Not because they would get sent to hell because of it.

So it is fair and i actually can't believe that someone is actually trying to champion that we should all just do what one group wants and blindly just believe what they believe without any reason.

...and if it is then wow it's a pretty flawed religion and i guess they are all going to hell then considering there are at 5 major religions other than Christianity i can think of off the top of my head.

Theology nerd warning:

This bizarre scenario you are describing depends not only on a belief in religious fundamentalism, but also very specific form of dispensationalist premillenial eschatology,
Fundamentalists have it figured out that evangelism is a duty of all Christians, and if they fail, then everyone loses. Especially them. The Kingdom of Heaven won't come about until the world is exactly how they think it should be, and if they don't get it done before the Rapture, they'll have a lot of explaining to do. The more abominations they can remove from the world by then, the better the chances that God won't shower the planet with fire and brimstone.

Theology nerding:

The bizarre scenario you are describing isn't merely fundamentalism. It depends entirely upon a very weird dispensationalist premillenial view of eschatology. I would hazard a guess that an extremely small number of Christians believe this, although those that do are probably very loud about it.

Posted: Aug 01 2012 03:06 pm

You can't just pick and choose what you like from the Bible though. That's such a cop-out. All or nothing, baby.

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

Yep, I'm what devout Catholics derisively call a "cafeteria Catholic," picking and choosing. It's kind of impossible to agree with everything a religions states though, especially after centuries of translation upon translation, and multiple generations twisting it as they go along. Hell, Christianity doesn't even support a lot of the other stuff in Leviticus such as the eating of pork & shellfish, slavery, and the aforementioned shaving. The inconsistency is startling, but the core message is still positive, in my opinion.

Posted: Aug 01 2012 03:19 pm

Well, you actually can pick and choose what you like from the Old Testament.

Christ was a reformist, and his message that the days of God as an angry fearmonger were over. If you can find anything in New Testament attributed to Christ that in any way seems to contradict anything in the Old Testament, the Old Testament text can summarily ignored.

Posted: Aug 01 2012 04:05 pm

Does anyone care about Numbers? The whole family tree of David?

Also,