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Star Wars Prequels superior to the original trilogy???


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AtmanRyu
Title: The Wandering Dragon
Joined: Jun 25 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
PostPosted: Feb 11 2012 07:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Why the 'Star Wars' Prequels Are Better Than the Original Trilogy
Quote:
It verges on cinematic treason to suggest that the "Star Wars" prequel trilogy is in any way superior to the original trilogy. However, history has proved that treasonous behavior is just as often necessary to stimulate progressive revolution as it is to endow malevolent forces with unrestricted authority necessary to obstruct basic human rights. So here goes: the first three episodes in the saga of Anakin Skywalker are deeper, better structured, and more politically astute than the final three. Not only is that why the prequel is superior, it is also a pretty decent elucidation of the original trilogy's greater popularity.

I may not hate the prequels with distilled hatred like some people, but to consider them "politically astute" is just going way too far.
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Sehkmaenzo
Joined: Jun 29 2010
PostPosted: Feb 11 2012 07:26 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Well, it was filled to the ass with politics, so that's something.
Calling it "superior", though, that's just asking for internet hate.
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@om*d
Title: kwatz!
Joined: Jul 10 2010
Location: Bahrabise
PostPosted: Feb 11 2012 07:52 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The prequels were full of political statements, at least Episodes 2 and 3. The original movies made more of a generalized political statement geared towards the time period during which it was made. I think people tend to be more involved in political discussions nowadays, and that is probably why the person who wrote that articles thinks they are better. The originals did not have to say as much to get the message across. Times were more simple.


I enjoyed Episode 2 and 3, but they are not as good as Empire. If I had to rate the movies in order of worst to best, this would be the order:

Phantom Menace - Shittiest acting, lame story
A New Hope - Groundbreaking special effects, but this movie does not age well, pretty boring
Return of the Jedi - Terrible wrap up to the original trilogy, teddy bears fighting the Empire
Attack of the Clones - An alright movie aside from some terrible acting (Christensen and Portman)
Revenge of the Sith - I thought this movie was good, WAY better than the rest of the prequels
The Empire Strikes Back - Best because of plot and acting, good character development


I would like to note that I am a huge Star Wars fan and I would watch most of these movies again. I just don't think any of them are perfect.


An eagle flies high, it flies higher than a sea gull.
But the crow wings rapidly from tree to bush to
hedge. The same can be true of life and death.
Sometimes life flies high, sometimes death wings
rapidly. Sometimes it is spoken that death wings
from tree to bush to hedge. Sometimes it does not.
 
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slapolakinkaido
Title: Illegitimate Son of God
Joined: Jul 14 2009
PostPosted: Feb 11 2012 08:25 pm Reply with quote Back to top

What a joke.


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Black Zarak
Title: Big Coffin Hunter
Joined: Feb 01 2006
Location: Phyrexia
PostPosted: Feb 12 2012 11:24 am Reply with quote Back to top

I would actually probably rank them the same as @om*d did. The thing a lot of people don't think about when bashing the prequels is that you had roughly 20 years to fall in love with the Original Trilogy and set everything it told you as inarguable fact before the first prequel. So I think a lot of people hate the prequels because they're "not what Star Wars is, man!" But really, the original Trilogy depicts a galaxy that's been under a tyrannical and very propagandist regime for twenty years, anything even remotely related to Jedi or study of the Force is outlawed under Palpatine. So I'm not saying Lucas knew for certain he was going to put Midichlorians in Phantom Menace back in 70's, but you wouldn't have heard it anywhere in the OT even if he had since no one in the general galaxy would know what the fuck they were. Obi Wan wouldn't have bothered telling Luke about them because it's doubtful he would have had a meter among the things he had when he fled to Tatooine and neither Vader nor the Emperor probably would have mentioned them because why would they? Speculating on Luke's level wouldn't have done anything and they never really catch him long enough to run a blood test.

That's way off topic, but my point is, everyone hates the prequels because they have rose-tinted glasses on for the OT.


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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Feb 12 2012 11:30 am Reply with quote Back to top

I hate how everyone hates on the Ewoks. The Ewoks are fucking awesome, and I won't listen to any ill words against them.
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Kacen
Joined: Dec 18 2007
Location: Face 2 Face
PostPosted: Feb 12 2012 11:47 am Reply with quote Back to top

The Star Wars Prequels are blubbering autism projects made by a man who has gone senile.

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/


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Kacen
Joined: Dec 18 2007
Location: Face 2 Face
PostPosted: Feb 12 2012 12:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

@om*d wrote:

Phantom Menace - Shittiest acting, lame story

I would agree.
@om*d wrote:

A New Hope - Groundbreaking special effects, but this movie does not age well, pretty boring

No, it was a well-constructed movie that defined a genre and pushed science fiction into the mainstream. Without it a lot of things would not exist; Star Trek prolly wouldn't have been much more than the original series. There weren't really any major flaws in the construction of the movie.

When people say movies do not "age well", it is not a very good criticism. It is like saying the Model T is shit because it is outdated today, or something.

@om*d wrote:
Return of the Jedi - Terrible wrap up to the original trilogy, teddy bears fighting the Empire

Whilst I agree Return of the Jedi was the most flawed of the original trilogy, it was still overall solid and better than all the prequels.

@om*d wrote:
Attack of the Clones - An alright movie aside from some terrible acting (Christensen and Portman)

This movie had no plot, it was just an assembly-line production.

@om*d wrote:
Revenge of the Sith - I thought this movie was good, WAY better than the rest of the prequels

This movie is only "okay" in a vacuum.

@om*d wrote:
The Empire Strikes Back - Best because of plot and acting, good character development

Obviously the overall best one plus has a unique construction.
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Klimbatize
2010 NES Champ
Title: 2011 Picnic/Death Champ
Joined: Mar 15 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV
PostPosted: Feb 12 2012 01:39 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Kacen wrote:
@om*d wrote:
A New Hope - Groundbreaking special effects, but this movie does not age well, pretty boring

No, it was a well-constructed movie that defined a genre and pushed science fiction into the mainstream. Without it a lot of things would not exist; Star Trek prolly wouldn't have been much more than the original series. There weren't really any major flaws in the construction of the movie.

When people say movies do not "age well", it is not a very good criticism. It is like saying the Model T is shit because it is outdated today, or something.

Well that's a stupid analogy because the Model T would be considered a shitty car by today's standards; in other words, it hasn't aged well.

You can say something was ground-breaking for the time and still think it hasn't aged well. Not everything that defines an industry or a genre transcends time. In fact, very little does. It's completely possible to respect something while recognizing it's out-dated.

I'm not saying I agree with atom's criticism of the movie. I still enjoy the original Star Wars. I enjoy all of them, even the shitty Episode I.


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@om*d
Title: kwatz!
Joined: Jul 10 2010
Location: Bahrabise
PostPosted: Feb 12 2012 02:04 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I still enjoy the original Star Wars as well, but it really does move slow compared to the rest of the films. It took me years to actually finish the movie for the first time. My grandparents would put it on when I went to visit them and I would always fall asleep when I tried to watch it. When I finally did finish the movie, I loved it. I am sure I would have a slightly different opinion if I had been alive to see the first movie in the theater, but I would still think it was the slowest moving compared to the other movies. I really could go into a lot more detail on what I like and don't like about all of the movies, but I spent far too much time in my earlier years doing that, and will leave it to others to argue over. I really don't want to take the time to write a full essay on the movies, as I have jobs and school to focus on, amongst other things.


Syd Lexia wrote:
I hate how everyone hates on the Ewoks. The Ewoks are fucking awesome, and I won't listen to any ill words against them.

I love the Ewoks, but they really did not seem to fit in with the rest of the original trilogy. They were far more comical than most everything else in the original trilogy, and maybe that is what bothers me. When the prequels came out and we had aliens such as Gungans and Neimoidians, they made more sense in the context of the Star Wars films as a whole series. The Ewoks were just very 80's in general, and that is what makes them great. I love the Ewok that sounds like it is saying "hornnny" and the fact that the Ewoks were going to eat the main characters.


An eagle flies high, it flies higher than a sea gull.
But the crow wings rapidly from tree to bush to
hedge. The same can be true of life and death.
Sometimes life flies high, sometimes death wings
rapidly. Sometimes it is spoken that death wings
from tree to bush to hedge. Sometimes it does not.
 
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Optimist With Doubts
Title: Titlating
Joined: Dec 17 2007
PostPosted: Feb 12 2012 03:56 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Slow perhaps but it suits the story better. The transformer movies move fast but that does not a good movie make.


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ProtoScott
Title: New Robot Prototype
Joined: Jul 19 2010
Location: Ft. Wayne, IN
PostPosted: Feb 12 2012 04:01 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Black Zarak wrote:
I would actually probably rank them the same as @om*d did. The thing a lot of people don't think about when bashing the prequels is that you had roughly 20 years to fall in love with the Original Trilogy and set everything it told you as inarguable fact before the first prequel. So I think a lot of people hate the prequels because they're "not what Star Wars is, man!" But really, the original Trilogy depicts a galaxy that's been under a tyrannical and very propagandist regime for twenty years, anything even remotely related to Jedi or study of the Force is outlawed under Palpatine. So I'm not saying Lucas knew for certain he was going to put Midichlorians in Phantom Menace back in 70's, but you wouldn't have heard it anywhere in the OT even if he had since no one in the general galaxy would know what the fuck they were. Obi Wan wouldn't have bothered telling Luke about them because it's doubtful he would have had a meter among the things he had when he fled to Tatooine and neither Vader nor the Emperor probably would have mentioned them because why would they? Speculating on Luke's level wouldn't have done anything and they never really catch him long enough to run a blood test.

That's way off topic, but my point is, everyone hates the prequels because they have rose-tinted glasses on for the OT.

This just cannot be the case. I saw the prequels way before I saw the original trilogy. I thought that they were awesome when I saw them (because I was like 8 when the first one came out) but now that I am older I fucking hate them, they are just a steril boring mess. As I aged I stopped understanding why people even liked star wars, but then I bought the original trilogy on a whim and it was all made clear to me. The orginal trilogy is a masterpeice. I saw them knowing the special effects were dated, and knowing all the shit that gives star wars nerds rage strokes like midichlorians. I still thought they were about 100 times better than the prequels.


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Rogue Hippo
Title: Lone Wolf Hippo
Joined: Jun 28 2010
Location: America's Wang
PostPosted: Feb 13 2012 12:20 am Reply with quote Back to top

I think we can all agree that the entire saga needs a reboot.
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Kacen
Joined: Dec 18 2007
Location: Face 2 Face
PostPosted: Feb 13 2012 01:27 am Reply with quote Back to top

Rogue Hippo wrote:
I think we can all agree that the entire saga needs a reboot.

No, we ether give Star Wars a mercy killing by just stopping all further merchandise and movies, or just get J.J. Abrams to make the Timothy Zahn novels movies.


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@om*d
Title: kwatz!
Joined: Jul 10 2010
Location: Bahrabise
PostPosted: Feb 13 2012 08:28 am Reply with quote Back to top

Kacen wrote:
...or just get J.J. Abrams to make the Timothy Zahn novels movies.

That would be really awesome.


An eagle flies high, it flies higher than a sea gull.
But the crow wings rapidly from tree to bush to
hedge. The same can be true of life and death.
Sometimes life flies high, sometimes death wings
rapidly. Sometimes it is spoken that death wings
from tree to bush to hedge. Sometimes it does not.
 
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Cattivo
Title: Degenerate Gambler
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Location: Chicagoland
PostPosted: Feb 13 2012 01:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Wow, that's a weird article. A movie blindly inserting random comments about politics in order to seem profound is not the same as saying anything intelligent about politics or making astute references to politics. If anything, the rise of the empire in the prequels resembles how Hitler took control of Germany.

I would not be surprised if the author of the article was paid off by Lucas to try to get people to buy tickets to the 3D release of Phantom Menace.

That said, the inferiority of the prequels is pretty hard to dispute. They have weak plots, which are a sideshow to the main focus of the movie: distracting special effects. It speaks volumes that the only good scene in the entirety of PM is the light sabre battle between Maul, Obi Wan, and Liam Neeson. On top of that, the movies contain a romance story so poorly written, it makes any random romantic comedy movie look like Shakespeare's Romeo & Juliet. And to cap it all off, Ewan McGregor is the only actor in the entire trilogy that does a good job. The child & teenage actors, which typically give problematic performances in all visual media, do an incredibly horrid job. At least Natalia Portman has recently gained some acting skills to go along with her good looks, but she seemed like robotic Mitt Romney in these movies.

Even Return of the Jedi, with its Ewok issues and copying of the plot from the original film is leagues ahead of the best prequel movie, RotS. That latter movie is simply ok, by the lower standards that were created for us by the first two prequel films.

Star Trek owns the sci-fi genre.


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Klimbatize
2010 NES Champ
Title: 2011 Picnic/Death Champ
Joined: Mar 15 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV
PostPosted: Feb 13 2012 01:26 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Cattivo wrote:
Star Trek owns the sci-fi genre.

Star Wars isn't sci-fi. I always found this whole Star Wars vs. Star Trek thing pretty stupid. Star Wars is space fantasy. They're different genres.

Star Trek uses science theories and facts to push stories; Star Wars doesn't give a fuck if whatever is on the screen is possible or makes a lick of sense in "reality". It's purely a soap opera set in space with big action. And I enjoy them, prequels and all.

Star Wars is closer to Lord of the Rings with its magic than Star Trek.


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Cattivo
Title: Degenerate Gambler
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Location: Chicagoland
PostPosted: Feb 13 2012 01:29 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Well said. I knew that would end up becoming the focus of my post after I wrote it, unfortunately, heh.


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"Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous people in the city?"
 
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Klimbatize
2010 NES Champ
Title: 2011 Picnic/Death Champ
Joined: Mar 15 2010
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PostPosted: Feb 13 2012 01:33 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Eh, the rest of your post was mostly opinion, so what's to disagree with? Some people dig 'em, some don't. Same as any art.

Well wait, there's little disputing that the acting is horrid.


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slapolakinkaido
Title: Illegitimate Son of God
Joined: Jul 14 2009
PostPosted: Feb 13 2012 03:46 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Cattivo wrote:
Wow, that's a weird article. A movie blindly inserting random comments about politics in order to seem profound is not the same as saying anything intelligent about politics or making astute references to politics. If anything, the rise of the empire in the prequels resembles how Hitler took control of Germany.

I would not be surprised if the author of the article was paid off by Lucas to try to get people to buy tickets to the 3D release of Phantom Menace.

That said, the inferiority of the prequels is pretty hard to dispute. They have weak plots, which are a sideshow to the main focus of the movie: distracting special effects. It speaks volumes that the only good scene in the entirety of PM is the light sabre battle between Maul, Obi Wan, and Liam Neeson. On top of that, the movies contain a romance story so poorly written, it makes any random romantic comedy movie look like Shakespeare's Romeo & Juliet. And to cap it all off, Ewan McGregor is the only actor in the entire trilogy that does a good job. The child & teenage actors, which typically give problematic performances in all visual media, do an incredibly horrid job. At least Natalia Portman has recently gained some acting skills to go along with her good looks, but she seemed like robotic Mitt Romney in these movies.

Even Return of the Jedi, with its Ewok issues and copying of the plot from the original film is leagues ahead of the best prequel movie, RotS. That latter movie is simply ok, by the lower standards that were created for us by the first two prequel films.

Star Trek owns the sci-fi genre.

I agree with this opinion for the most part.


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Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Feb 13 2012 03:53 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The article seems like it's written by a sophomore in college, the kind who thinks that any political statement in a movie is genius so long as he agrees with it. Anyone who understands why good writing is good will knows that ep. 1-3 were bad because the dialogue was stilted and cliche, there was zero characterization, the acting (by otherwise great performers) was awful, and this article's author's precious political allegory was just a bunch of boring, half-baked thoughts stuffed into the story at the last minute without a single dissenting voice among the writing/editing crew.


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Syd Lexia
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Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
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PostPosted: Feb 13 2012 05:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

@om*d wrote:
They were far more comical than most everything else in the original trilogy

I don't think that's necessarily true. You had Jabba's little squawky pet thing, you had the cantina band, and most glaringly, you had C-3PO.

Kacen wrote:
@om*d wrote:
Attack of the Clones - An alright movie aside from some terrible acting (Christensen and Portman)

This movie had no plot, it was just an assembly-line production.

I still don't really understand what happens in Attack of the Clones. Obi Wan finds out a secret Clone Army is being produced on a hidden planet, supposedly for the Republic, that no one seems to know anything about who commissioned it or why. And then later in the film, the Jedi lead the clone army into battle, because, hey, free army. WHAT THE FUCK? How does that make any sense? If someone offered me a free army of people who were basically genetically engineered to be living robots, I'd turn it down. You know why? BECAUSE IT'S OBVIOUSLY A FUCKING TRICK.
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justdrop
Title: Supreme Overlord
Joined: Jan 11 2012
Location: Philadelphia
PostPosted: Feb 13 2012 05:16 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The fact that Yoda couldn't sense any of that shit made the first 3 retarded anyway.


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@om*d
Title: kwatz!
Joined: Jul 10 2010
Location: Bahrabise
PostPosted: Feb 13 2012 05:48 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
@om*d wrote:
They were far more comical than most everything else in the original trilogy

I don't think that's necessarily true. You had Jabba's little squawky pet thing, you had the cantina band, and most glaringly, you had C-3PO.

I watched the original trilogy again yesterday, and you are right. Perhaps what I should have said was they were far more cute compared to anything else in the movies. I doubt anyone would consider Figrin D'an and the Modal Nodes(the cantina band) with their butthole mouths or Salacious Crumb(the hysterical laughing guy in Jabba's palace) who looked like a cross between a Gremlin and one of the goblins from Labyrinth that was horribly burned in a fire cute.
Syd Lexia wrote:
I still don't really understand what happens in Attack of the Clones. Obi Wan finds out a secret Clone Army is being produced on a hidden planet, supposedly for the Republic, that no one seems to know anything about who commissioned it or why.

In the movie Obi-Wan is told at the cloning facility that Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas ordered the clone army. Obi-Wan then explains that Sifo-Dyas was killed 10 years prior. A bit later Obi-Wan asks Jango Fett if Sifo-Dyas recruited him, and Jango tells him he doedn't know who that is, and that he was recruited by "a man called Tyranus", who we later find out is Count Dooku.
Syd Lexia wrote:
And then later in the film, the Jedi lead the clone army into battle, because, hey, free army. WHAT THE FUCK? How does that make any sense? If someone offered me a free army of people who were basically genetically engineered to be living robots, I'd turn it down. You know why? BECAUSE IT'S OBVIOUSLY A FUCKING TRICK.

I agree with what you are saying here. At one point in the movie after Ob-Wan tells Yoda and Mace Windu about the army, Yoda suggests the Jedi are blind and that their ability to use the force has weakened considerably. Yoda then goes on to suggest that they inform the senate of their weakness, but Mace Windu says they should not because their enemies would multiply. One can only assume the Jedi take command of the clone army to use so they do not seem weak, and basically it is the Jedi who fuck everything up and cause the Clone Wars. It was obviously a trap, but they seemed to assume they could control it, because I guess that is what Jedi do best... control. Pretty fucking stupid if you ask me.


An eagle flies high, it flies higher than a sea gull.
But the crow wings rapidly from tree to bush to
hedge. The same can be true of life and death.
Sometimes life flies high, sometimes death wings
rapidly. Sometimes it is spoken that death wings
from tree to bush to hedge. Sometimes it does not.
 
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Klimbatize
2010 NES Champ
Title: 2011 Picnic/Death Champ
Joined: Mar 15 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV
PostPosted: Feb 13 2012 06:01 pm Reply with quote Back to top

@om*d wrote:
Syd Lexia wrote:
@om*d wrote:
They were far more comical than most everything else in the original trilogy

I don't think that's necessarily true. You had Jabba's little squawky pet thing, you had the cantina band, and most glaringly, you had C-3PO.

I watched the original trilogy again yesterday, and you are right. Perhaps what I should have said was they were far more cute compared to anything else in the movies. I doubt anyone would consider Figrin D'an and the Modal Nodes(the cantina band) with their butthole mouths or Salacious Crumb(the hysterical laughing guy in Jabba's palace) who looked like a cross between a Gremlin and one of the goblins from Labyrinth that was horribly burned in a fire cute.
Syd Lexia wrote:
I still don't really understand what happens in Attack of the Clones. Obi Wan finds out a secret Clone Army is being produced on a hidden planet, supposedly for the Republic, that no one seems to know anything about who commissioned it or why.

In the movie Obi-Wan is told at the cloning facility that Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas ordered the clone army. Obi-Wan then explains that Sifo-Dyas was killed 10 years prior. A bit later Obi-Wan asks Jango Fett if Sifo-Dyas recruited him, and Jango tells him he doedn't know who that is, and that he was recruited by "a man called Tyranus", who we later find out is Count Dooku.
Syd Lexia wrote:
And then later in the film, the Jedi lead the clone army into battle, because, hey, free army. WHAT THE FUCK? How does that make any sense? If someone offered me a free army of people who were basically genetically engineered to be living robots, I'd turn it down. You know why? BECAUSE IT'S OBVIOUSLY A FUCKING TRICK.

I agree with what you are saying here. At one point in the movie after Ob-Wan tells Yoda and Mace Windu about the army, Yoda suggests the Jedi are blind and that their ability to use the force has weakened considerably. Yoda then goes on to suggest that they inform the senate of their weakness, but Mace Windu says they should not because their enemies would multiply. One can only assume the Jedi take command of the clone army to use so they do not seem weak, and basically it is the Jedi who fuck everything up and cause the Clone Wars. It was obviously a trap, but they seemed to assume they could control it, because I guess that is what Jedi do best... control. Pretty fucking stupid if you ask me.

See! The prequels are politically astute.


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