SydLexia.com - The Forums :: View topic - Competent Educator takes 10th grade test, gets D

Posted: Dec 16 2011 08:18 am

Here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/when-an-adult-took-standardized-tests-forced-on-kids/2011/12/05/gIQApTDuUO_blog.html

There's a lot more to it and the message the article gives is:

wrote:

If I’d been required to take those two tests when I was a 10th grader, my life would almost certainly have been very different. I’d have been told I wasn’t ‘college material,’ would probably have believed it, and looked for work appropriate for the level of ability that the test said I had.

“It makes no sense to me that a test with the potential for shaping a student’s entire future has so little apparent relevance to adult, real-world functioning. Who decided the kind of questions and their level of difficulty? Using what criteria? To whom did they have to defend their decisions? As subject-matter specialists, how qualified were they to make general judgments about the needs of this state’s children in a future they can’t possibly predict? Who set the pass-fail “cut score”? How?”

Both tests are takeable in the 12/12 update on the link's page.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 10:09 am

I read the article and the 1st impression I got was that the school board member who took the test was just embarrassed that he got a 'D' and had to place the blame somewhere else.

But I thought I should take the sample test before I judged him. I did all the math problems in my head and got 100%. I assume I'm smarter than a 10th grader so I've got an advantage there. But I'd like to think that a 10th grader with paper, pencil and calculator could accomplish 70% of what I did in my head especially considering that the concepts should still be fresh in their minds. The scariest part is that this person on the school board knew 0 of 60 math questions! And because he's stupid, he's launching some 'reform testing' crusade and it's picking up steam. And this quote was just absurd:

Quote:

Instead of connecting what we learn in school with being successful in the real world, we are doing it in reverse. We are testing first and then kids go into the real world. Whether the information they have learned is important or not becomes secondary. If you really did a study on what math most kids need, I guarantee you could probably dump about 80 percent of math scores and leave high-level math for the kids who want it and will need it.

The US is getting destroyed in global math rankings and this guy wants to cut 80% of math?! I'd love to see the test he would give:

You're working at McDonalds. A customer orders a Big Mac meal which costs $5.79. He gives you a $10 dollar bill. How much change do you give him back?

Way to aim high dude. Sorry for the long rant.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 10:20 am

^ I can't tell you the number of times I've heard grown adults say stuff like "who the hell needs algebra or geometry anyway?"

I just shake my head. Who needs it? Construction workers, for one. It may not appear so to the populace, but builders probably know more math than any other profession, save engineers and scientists. So even if you're going to be a "lowly laborer," you're going to need to be good at math.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 10:27 am

America needs a eugenics program, so we can breed naturally smarter students, and then adjust course difficulty appropriately. Problem solved.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 10:31 am

Hey fuck you guys, I'm terrible at math and probably still smarter than half of you!

Posted: Dec 16 2011 10:34 am

You probably could be good at math, but you're lazy. YOU LACK DISCIPLINE!

Posted: Dec 16 2011 10:36 am

I used to try, up to my college level class; I would work my ass off on math, then bring it in to class and find out I had been doing everything wrong the whole time because I missed some tiny step. I don't think math is the sole criteria we should be judging intelligence on here or even a primary one.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 10:41 am

I would say its an important but equally sized slice of the overall Pie of Knowledge.

The Pie of Knowledge and all related indicia are trademarks of SydLexia.com.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 10:48 am

Syd Lexia wrote:

America needs a eugenics program, so we can breed naturally smarter students, and then adjust course difficulty appropriately. Problem solved.

America already has a eugenics program. It's working quite well according to schedule.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 11:07 am

Then why is there Jersey Shore? Surely, that bunch was marked for gassing at birth.

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

A friend of mine brought over a large algebra worksheet that her 14 yr. old son was working on the other day to try to get some help from me. It was full of a lot of graphing equation questions and at first glance I couldn't remember how to do them at all.

I used to do those all the time in high school and college and haven't used them at all in real life, so I naturally forgot how to do them. The fact of the matter is that as a paralegal and as someone who wrote papers in grad school for history, I didn't need to know advanced math. All I've needed is the basic stuff in order to deal with financial transactions and my checkbook. Occasionally at work I have to work with percentages, compound interest and the like, but that's what formulas in Microsoft Excel are for...

Posted: Dec 16 2011 11:14 am

Black Zarak wrote:

Then why is there Jersey Shore? Surely, that bunch was marked for gassing at birth.

You don't get what I'm saying. Those people are the ideal. Eugenics is just selective breeding, you can select for any traits you want.

Cattivo wrote:

A friend of mine brought over a large algebra worksheet that her 14 yr. old son was working on the other day to try to get some help from me. It was full of a lot of graphing equation questions and at first glance I couldn't remember how to do them at all.

I used to do those all the time in high school and college and haven't used them at all in real life, so I naturally forgot how to do them. The fact of the matter is that as a paralegal and as someone who wrote papers in grad school for history, I didn't need to know advanced math. All I've needed is the basic stuff in order to deal with financial transactions and my checkbook. Occasionally at work I have to work with percentages, compound interest and the like, but that's what formulas in Microsoft Excel are for...

You make a valid point, but should you ever wish to build a decent dog house, you're gonna want to know some trigonometry. Just one example.

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

Sure. I would definitely prefer to retain all that trig, geometry and calculus stuff I used to know.

Man, I forget all that sine, cosine & tangent stuff. All I remember from calculus is the word "derivative" and how to do a basic one, maybe. Hell, I'd probably even have to look up how to find the area of a circle. I have the pi*r-squared thing in my head, but for all I know, that's for perimeter, heh.

2011 SNES Champ Joined: Dec 04 2006 Posts: 1929

Did the guy take the reading text thing without the multiple choices? Because I don't understand how it's even possible to fail when they're there.

Usually, when we did reading stuff, the questions were "What do you think this means?" blablabla and you just answered what you understood of it, in both my French and English classes.

I got all right on the reading test, and I don't even know what the hell "fostering" really means, I just went with it because the other ones made no sense.

I did miss a math question though, because I'm a retard who only reads half the question before answering.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 01:09 pm

I got perfect scores on both of them, but I admit I wasn't sure if I was allowed to use a calculator on the math quiz so I had to calculate the square root of 50 to be sure on #3.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 04:18 pm

Black Zarak wrote:

I used to try, up to my college level class; I would work my ass off on math, then bring it in to class and find out I had been doing everything wrong the whole time because I missed some tiny step. I don't think math is the sole criteria we should be judging intelligence on here or even a primary one.

I completely agree. I fully stand behind my plan of judging intellect based on being able to use grammar correctly, and specifically the ability to make proper use of colons and semicolons.

Also, math sucks and I hate it.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 04:32 pm

Speaking about grammar, is it me or does no one know how to use hyphens anymore? I rarely see modifying noun phrases hyphenated when they need to be.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 04:59 pm

The-Excel wrote:

Speaking about grammar, is it me or does no one know how to use hyphens anymore? I rarely see modifying noun phrases hyphenated when they need to be.

You know, this is really true, but I chalk this one up to the evolution of the language. Hyphenated words are going the way of the Dodo. They're either morphing into full on compound words, or it's becoming accepted to write them as separate words entirely. That's just the way the general accepted use of the language is going.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 05:14 pm

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but the lack of hyphens in noun phrases makes me read the words with an awkward pace. Case in point:

Joined: Aug 04 2009 Posts: 2515

I guess it depends on what area you want to go into.

I personally find English to be pointless in nearly all aspects apart from the ability to convey points.

Mathematics is more important because it is how things fucking work. The universe boils down to mathematics. Everything you use in life is related to mathematics in some way: in how it is engineered or how the world works - physics = mathematics.

That's why it annoys me when people are like "oh look you spelt one word wrong" or "you inserted a comma in the wrong place" - i guess your whole argument is voided because you made one grammatical error.

That is not a sign of intelligence. So at least maths helps solve problems instead of english were you spend most of your time analysing every part of a sentence because of course "everything has a meaning or symbolism."

But i suppose i guess it depends on the field you want to go into, mathematics plays a part in every field but it has lesser roles or a disguised role were you don't need it at all.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 07:39 pm

Proper writing IS a sign of intelligence, in that everyone is taught how to do it properly, yet so many don't. If you can't be bothered to even try, that is a sign of mental laziness, something that is most often seen in the dim-witted.

My boss, who makes more than three times as much as I do, created signs for us to use at work saying, and I quote, "You're air filters have been changed." I am the only person who noticed what is wrong with that sentence.

Communication is important, and if you can't do that effectively and properly, then you at the least LOOK like a moron, if not one in reality.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 08:14 pm

It doesn't help that a lot of teachers are dumbasses. I'm friends with a lot of elementary/highschool teachers who sound like a Kardashian when they talk. And when they try to write......god help those kids.

Joined: Aug 04 2009 Posts: 2515

Jack Slater wrote:

Proper writing IS a sign of intelligence, in that everyone is taught how to do it properly, yet so many don't. If you can't be bothered to even try, that is a sign of mental laziness, something that is most often seen in the dim-witted.

My boss, who makes more than three times as much as I do, created signs for us to use at work saying, and I quote, "You're air filters have been changed." I am the only person who noticed what is wrong with that sentence.

Communication is important, and if you can't do that effectively and properly, then you at the least LOOK like a moron, if not one in reality.

I STILL disagree. You do not need spelling or grammar to convey a point. If i am speaking to you in person i am using neither of these things yet i am still communicating with you.

Also in that sign your coworkers still knew what the sign meant didn't they? The point was still conveyed. I am not saying English is worthless or that you shouldn't use proper spelling or grammar. It isn't a sign of intelligence.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 09:22 pm

An absolute sign of intelligence? No, I would agree that it's not. It is a warning sign of sorts, though. Yes, the message of the sign was conveyed. However, that was a simple sentence to express a simple thought. Were you to try and express a more complicated one through writing, and you were incapable of writing properly and with a thorough vocabulary, not only may it not come across clearly, it may not come across at all.

That's somewhat of a moot point, I'll admit. Sad fact of the matter is, most of the eloi who can't write properly don't ever have complex or deep thoughts.

Posted: Dec 16 2011 09:43 pm

Well the quizzes linked in the article were fairly easy. I barely even remember Geometry and I still managed to answer those questions right on the quiz. I can see not being able to pass a math quiz with some of the higher level math that only gets used in certain professions and everyone else forgets because it is useless to them, that is kind of forgivable. I use algebra often enough, but geometry and calculus I rarely ever have found a use for outside of a classroom. I'm pretty sure a semi-competent 6th grader could have passed the reading quiz though, there's really no excuse for failing at that.