Turns out there are parents in the news who do the right thing. Jennifer and John of Ohio have a transgender 10-year-old child, and they support Jackie's decision to live life as a girl.
Since she was 18-months-old, "it was always dancing, dress-up, " says her mother Jennifer. Jackie loved the color pink and wearing ballerina outfits. She wanted sparkles and pretty shoes.
So when Jackie was about two-years-old, Jennifer started looking on the Internet, she tells "Good Morning America." That's when she first learned about transgender and started to wonder.
Jackie's sister, Sagan, was the first to ask if she really wanted to be a girl. "Yeah," she told her sister.
And when Jackie was just ten years old, she went to her mom, crying. "I'm a girl and I can't do this anymore," Jackie said. Without hesitation, Jennifer said, "It's gonna be okay." There was no judgment or disappointment.
I... Dunno what to say to this... Farnsworth, can you help me?
i remember reading something about a 16 or 17 year old Spanish kid who had a sex change, and i thought THAT was too young. 10 years old is way way way too young to have someone determine their fate IMO.
Klimbatize wrote:
I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load
Atma
Title: Dragoon
Joined: Apr 29 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 2450
Posted:
Aug 31 2011 09:15 pm
The Opponent
Title: Forum Battle WINNER
Joined: Feb 24 2010
Location: The Danger Zone
Posts: 3495
Posted:
Aug 31 2011 09:34 pm
She going to hell.
I'm not a bad enough dude, but I am an edgy little shit. I'll do what I can.
Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
Posted:
Aug 31 2011 09:49 pm
What I like about this story is that there's no liberal media bias to it at all.
Eh, whatever. It's their life, if they want to deal with it in that way, fine.
However...
Quote:
Turns out there are parents in the news who do the right thing.
THAT pisses me off. First off, it's about the most non-objective statement you can make. Can we PLEASE get some unbiased reporting here? And second, it implies that parents who have a child like this who are sympathetic, understanding, and caring, yet don't rush out to buy training bras for their 10 year old son are doing the wrong thing. You can handle this right without saying "Okay, you can be a girl now" and without saying "DAMNIT, SON, YOU ARE A MAN, AND I'M GONNA WHIP YOUR ASS AND DRINK BEER UNTIL YOU STOP BEIN' A SISSY!"
They never seem to make it clear whether or not there was surgery. I'll assume no doctor is stupid enough to do it before puberty *crosses fingers*
I feel a bit less creeped out, and to keep it this way I'll stop thinking about this story
Shardea
Title: The Other
Joined: Mar 04 2011
Location: Tadezocora
Posts: 149
Posted:
Aug 31 2011 10:34 pm
The-Excel wrote:
She going to hell.
AtmanRyu wrote:
Frankly, I think it's gonna be hilarious when "Jackie" hits puberty and suddenly realizes she's "lesbian"...
...
I am offended, good sirs.
Quote:
<Sehkmaenzo> Just quote someone randomly for a sig, work on it later!
aeonic
Title: Sporadic Poster
Joined: Nov 19 2009
Location: Kissimmee, FL
Posts: 2747
Posted:
Aug 31 2011 10:52 pm
Shardea wrote:
The-Excel wrote:
She going to hell.
AtmanRyu wrote:
Frankly, I think it's gonna be hilarious when "Jackie" hits puberty and suddenly realizes she's "lesbian"...
...
I am offended, good sirs.
Honestly, I'm a little offended you took something The-Excel said seriously. Ever!
No, but being really honest now, the bias in the article, or any 'news' article anymore, is a bit overwhelming. I think it's great that the kid knows he wants to be a girl, but AtmanRyu brings up a very, very good point with what he had to say. It's completely feasible that the kid could grow up to develop romantic or sexual feelings for women too, and there may be a modicum of regret there, or at least frustration, especially if the gender-reassignment surgery does any nerve damage or the like to Jackie's genitalia (which can happen).
I also think it's great that the parents are supportive, but I hope they don't have Jackie on hormone therapy and the like now because it could cause physiological problems with a child that age. And I don't think it's 'wrong' that other parents may not have the same views on the situation. Not everyone is that accomodating, and I hope they've prepped the child for this fact, moreso even than they think is necessary.
Who likes role-playing games? Me. Way too goddamn much.
UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
Posts: 7565
Posted:
Aug 31 2011 11:04 pm
Guys, there was no surgery. They do not perform sex change surgery on children. Hell, they don't perform it on anyone who walks into a doctor's office and says "Gimmee a dick, about 7 inches long, left-leaning". To be eligible for it, you need to have lived a good few years as that gender, seen a shrink who clears the decision, and plunk down a ton of cash, plus have several surgeries (genitals are not exactly "plug-and-play").
At this point, it's just a boy in a dress. Weird. But nothing too outrageous.
No, but being really honest now, the bias in the article, or any 'news' article anymore, is a bit overwhelming. I think it's great that the kid knows he wants to be a girl, but AtmanRyu brings up a very, very good point with what he had to say. It's completely feasible that the kid could grow up to develop romantic or sexual feelings for women too, and there may be a modicum of regret there, or at least frustration, especially if the gender-reassignment surgery does any nerve damage or the like to Jackie's genitalia (which can happen).
The bias is pretty absurd, true, and yes, AtmanRyu raises a point. I'm just not sure it is a valid point, as it's just as likely for Jackie to be straight as any other girl. So AtmanRyu's point either comes down to "Lesbians are hilarious" or "Transpeople aren't normalpeople", one of which offends me on a personal level, the other on a conceptual one.
It may end up being frustrating for Jackie, but to consider that an important concern implies that ones gender is tied to their orientation; for example, I should have gotten a sex change 'cause I like girls.
Quote:
<Sehkmaenzo> Just quote someone randomly for a sig, work on it later!
Vert1
Joined: Aug 28 2011
Posts: 537
Posted:
Aug 31 2011 11:56 pm
Objectivity is an illusion.
Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
Posted:
Sep 01 2011 12:08 am
UsaSatsui wrote:
Guys, there was no surgery. They do not perform sex change surgery on children.
My point is "He's freakin' 10 years old!!!" Like the bunny said, right now it's just a boy in a dress; it's not the same as an adult declaring he's a woman trapped inside a man's body!
I'm pretty sure there's more to being female other than playing with Barbie and wearing dresses; I really doubt the parents sat down with the kid and explained the physical differences between boys and girls for him to understand.
What I'm saying is that it's way too early for him to understand what's going on with his body and his parents are way complacent to the kid's whims.
Also:
Shardea wrote:
So AtmanRyu's point either comes down to "Lesbians are hilarious" or "Transpeople aren't normalpeople", one of which offends me on a personal level, the other on a conceptual one.
Please, PLEASE explain to me how you managed to miss the point by MILES?
In journalism? Not only is it possible, it should be required.
Syd Lexia wrote:
UsaSatsui wrote:
Guys, there was no surgery. They do not perform sex change surgery on children.
Clearly you don't watch SVU.
You know, I immediately thought of that episode.
The issue there wasn't the surgery, though, it was giving the kid female hormones. That I'm not so sure I'm cool with.
AtmanRyu wrote:
What I'm saying is that it's way too early for him to understand what's going on with his body and his parents are way complacent to the kid's whims.
Are you saying that 10 years old is too young to understand the psychological difference between boys and girls, and to know how you should feel as one or the other?
I'm not saying he won't change his mind later on, but I think you need to give children a bit more credit.
It's the Huffington Post. They make no qualms about being liberal. At least they are open about it, unlike other news sources. Anyone who made sarcastic comments about the unbiased nature of the blog entry come off as naive to me. They aren't trying to be unbiased.
Really guys, chill out. I don't see what the big deal is. Did you guys read the blog post? The kid isn't going to have surgery. They aren't changing any anatomy here. They're allowing a child to dress in a manner that makes her feel happy. This happens a lot more than you probably realize. The family is probably putting this story out there so that others in similar situations won't feel so alone.
Basically it sounds like you're all freaked out that a 10 year old is wearing "the wrong clothes". It's not that odd for modern children to be aware of their gender identity at that age. If she winds up being a lesbian, that has nothing to do with this decision either. She identifies as a female; that doesn't mean she's attracted to boys. Learn the difference between gender, sex, and sexual orientation.
Hacker wrote:
Oh what our founding fathers would say...
LOL, really? You're going to that argument? Who the fuck cares what the founding fathers would have said? They lived over two centuries ago. The world changes, as does understanding of the human species. They probably would have been freaked out by it, but they also were a-okay with protecting slavery in the Constitution so bringing them up in any discussion about current social mores is just ridiculous.
Eh let's just ask him how he feels about the whole thing when he gets old enough to notice girls, which ain't too far off. It's not like he got the surgery, Bunny is right they don't just hand those out like tonsillectomies.
I think that 10 is to young to be making heavy decisions like gender reassignment, you wouldn't let a 10 year old get a tattoo would you? It's not my cup o tea, but since he didn't get the surgery then I don't see anything to get all up in arms about, it's not my kid so it's none of my business anyway.
The Flaming Schnitzel
Title: Tsar of all Russias
Joined: May 10 2011
Location: Minsk, Belarus
Posts: 810
Posted:
Sep 01 2011 08:03 am
Klimbatize wrote:
Hacker wrote:
Oh what our founding fathers would say...
LOL, really? You're going to that argument? Who the fuck cares what the founding fathers would have said? They lived over two centuries ago. The world changes, as does understanding of the human species. They probably would have been freaked out by it, but they also were a-okay with protecting slavery in the Constitution so bringing them up in any discussion about current social mores is just ridiculous.
This.
Also, I think the gender vs. sex is something I'm surprisingly sympathetic to. I think the human body's development is so fragile and precise that it's hard NOT to go wrong. I think people should be able to choose the gender they feel they are. However, I think our society is sometimes making it seem less than it really is. I mean, this is a huge deal. I'm not saying that kids shouldn't be allowed to express their wish to be another gender, but I'm worried about this becoming the new fad and people will do it for the wrong reasons.
Fighter_McWarrior
Title: Gun of Brixton
Joined: Jun 05 2011
Location: Down by the River
Posts: 1087
Posted:
Sep 01 2011 08:27 am
Sounds to me like you're all getting really pissed off over nothing. 10 years old is way too young to make decisions about surgery, but Usa is right. That's not the issue here. By 10, most boys know the social differences between boys and girls. They're certainly old enough to start making fun of eachother for acting too much like one or the other. Even if it's just simple stuff like "I like to wear dresses, and only girls are supposed to do that" or playing with dolls instead of action figures or what have you, 10 year olds certainly have a grasp of what boys are supposed to do and what girls are supposed to do. And if he feels that he's more comfortable doing "girl things" instead of "boy things" then more power to him. If he feels that he'd rather be a girl than a boy, it's probably because he's more comfortable acting like one and he's getting sick of all the bullshit that he inevitably has to put up with for feeling that way from the other kids his age.
I'll admit that some parents are going too far with their treatment of their children's genders. That couple in Toronto that won't divulge their child's gender to anyone springs to mind. And if I fault Jackie's parents for anything, it's allowing him too free a use of the internet to learn all this shit, but there's no harm whatsoever in accepting that the child is more comfortable taking on a female role than a male one. By now, he's old enough to know that.
@om*d
Title: Dorakyura
Joined: Jul 10 2010
Location: Castlevania
Posts: 4226
Posted:
Sep 01 2011 10:04 am
It does not matter what this kid wants in life. If you think this is fucked up, you either have not lived long enough or you do not have an inquisitive mind. On a scale of fucked up things, 1 being not very fucked up and 10 being severely fucked up, this is barely a 1. (a 10 might be something like killing your parents and playing with their dead bodies to put them in sexual positions and then having sex with your dead parents whilst wearing your brother's skin as a kilt and eating your sister's brains) There are people out there who have sex with animals, at least this kid will probably(one can always hope) keep it in the species.
I think the more fucked up thing here is that people say this is wrong when it is not their choice, as it is not their body and therefore really none of their fucking business.
It's not like the story is about this child killing or mutilating animals and the parents are like, "We tolerate this because it makes our child happy." Now that would be something to at least get slightly upset about.
GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
Posted:
Sep 01 2011 10:04 am
I dislike the reporting style and I would prefer to read the story as written by another journalist.
As far as the content of the story is concerned, I don't care. I really don't fucking care. People can and should be free to make life decisions about themselves and their families as long as they aren't putting each other into danger or breaking laws.
I am excited about the prospect of one day becoming a parent myself and raising children in a manner that I believe is healthy, capable, and happy. When difficult decisions arise, and they will, I plan to be an open minded guide to my kids.
How each of you lives or foresees your own situations is completely up to you, and I wish you the best with it because I imagine no matter what, it won't be easy or as straight forward as you expect.
To those of you who think that quips of ignorance and intolerance equate to socially encouraged wit, you are wrong.
The Opponent
Title: Forum Battle WINNER
Joined: Feb 24 2010
Location: The Danger Zone
Posts: 3495
Posted:
Sep 01 2011 11:48 am
Shardea wrote:
I am offended, good sirs.
I was trying to counter the liberal bias with conservative bias. I didn't even write that sentence properly. You were supposed to read it with a Southern accent for full effect.
aeonic wrote:
Honestly, I'm a little offended you took something The-Excel said seriously. Ever!
Would you believe you're not the first person to say this?
Syd Lexia wrote:
UsaSatsui wrote:
Guys, there was no surgery. They do not perform sex change surgery on children.
Clearly you don't watch SVU.
I loved that episode(s).
I'm not a bad enough dude, but I am an edgy little shit. I'll do what I can.
