Syd Lexia wrote:

Tar wrote: I like this: Quote: Like the Nintendo Wii's Madworld, remaking a game like Duke Nukem 3D on the 3DS would assure hardcore gamers the new handheld could be for them too. Because playing anything else would make the "hardcore" crowd feel more infantile. They need some reassurance, god damn it. They need to live on the edge. I hate this sort of backward and incorrect thinking. I recent said it on Twitter, and I'd like to reiterate it here: Nintendo makes the most mature, hardcore, adult gaming systems. And let me tell you why. Eventually, you reach a point in life where you outgrow or at the very least SHOULD outgrow juvenile fratboy garbage like Halo, GTA, Bulletstorm, Manhunt, Saint's Row, and Call of Duty. You NEVER outgrow Mario and Zelda, unless you're a soulless prick.

Best quote ever. I can understand why the juvenile 12 year old boys believes that GTA, God of War and Cod is hardcore and mature, what I don't understand is how grown up game-journalists like Geoff Keightly and others ALSO believe that for a game to be mature it has to have blood, gore, sex etc. If you guys watch the show "The Bonus Round" on gametrailers you will understand what I mean as the guys that frequent this show always brings up the same "Nintendo is for kiddies" "God of War is more adults" and stuff like that. And the saddest part about it is that I don't really believe the journalists hate Nintendo or anything (which at least would have made this view understandable), they just have no fucking clue about what constitutes mature gaming content. Seriously, I would bet that most Nintendo-fans are far older then the average Gow, GTA og Cod fanboy.

Edit: And for this I started following you on twitter.

BlakMajikTongue wrote:

Coming to now realize........could this be the first Nintendo system/portable system to not have a Mario title at launch?

Neither the Gamecube nor the Wii had one, even though the Gamecube did admittedly have Luigis Mansion.

Black Zarak wrote:

Syd Lexia wrote: Tar wrote: I like this: Quote: Like the Nintendo Wii's Madworld, remaking a game like Duke Nukem 3D on the 3DS would assure hardcore gamers the new handheld could be for them too. Because playing anything else would make the "hardcore" crowd feel more infantile. They need some reassurance, god damn it. They need to live on the edge. I hate this sort of backward and incorrect thinking. I recent said it on Twitter, and I'd like to reiterate it here: Nintendo makes the most mature, hardcore, adult gaming systems. And let me tell you why. Eventually, you reach a point in life where you outgrow or at the very least SHOULD outgrow juvenile fratboy garbage like Halo, GTA, Bulletstorm, Manhunt, Saint's Row, and Call of Duty. You NEVER outgrow Mario and Zelda, unless you're a soulless prick. Wow, between this and hating Phyrexia, you are just indirectly insulting me left and right recently... So, if you're such an evolved being Syd, shouldn't you have outgrown Resident Evil, Castlevania, Metal Gear Solid, Soul Calibur, Mad World, Golden Eye, etc? I mean, those are all stupid frat boy games everyone at least SHOULD outgrow right?

A few of those franchises (notably Madworld and Resident Evil) has some kind of that same appeal as Killzone, God of War and other games that rely heavily on juvenile stuff, and I am certain that Resident Evil never would have gotten as popular as it became had it not been for the shock-value it had. Tomb Raider is another example of this, and I remember despising the Playstation 1 back in the day because I felt that all the games for it relied on either graphics (Tekken, Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy 7), boobs (Tomb Raider) or gore (Resident Evil). However, most of the Resident Evil (and again Tomb Raider) games are also very clever games with interesting characters, challenging puzzles and so on. As for the other games on your list we have:

Castlevania - the appeal of these games have always been atmosphere and challenge - but not juvenile gore like God of War for instance. I would say the games lost a bit of the challenge with the Igarashi-vanias, but they won the exploration-element. However, the new 3d game is definitely trying to cater to that same dudebro-audience that love all the shit Syd mentioned first.

Metal Gear Solid - This game is somewhere in between as the gameplay is actually really clever in a lot of these games, and the storylines does also have subtle implications for both western democracy and capitalism. The game also favors the player to avoid using violence. However, there is no doubt that a lot of the dudebros love this game as well, as it has spectacular set-pieces, loads of weapons, and a really cool manly man as main protagonist. There is however nothing wrong with any of this, what is wrong (in my opinion) is games that ONLY relies on this to sell. In other words the so-called "Hardcore"-games.

Soul Calibur - Can't comment since I have never played this one.

Golden Eye - I have only played it a bit, but I feel that it is a pretty standard shooter that was awesome for its time because it had a nice single player campaign, and was the only one to give decent fps-multiplayer on a console. However, it was not a game that relied particularly much on sex, gore or other "mature" themes. It had good gameplay, that's all. I guess this can also be said about Call of Duty, at least before Modern Warfare 2 and that whole No Russian-mission.

As for GTA which was mentioned, I can see how these games can have some appeal as I tend to like games with a lot of freedom. I am just not interested in that freedom only so I can bang hookers, steal cars and rape innocent women (or whatever you do in a GTA-game). However, the open-worldness of the games, the rpg-elements and the more or less faithful recreation of real-world locations, make this series pretty decent, BUT it would never have been so big had it not been for all the "Mature" dudebros-stuff.

A lot of the typical "mature" dudebro games are actually quite decent, however, it is the dismissing of anything without these values that is disturbing, and the fact that the majority of the industry (at least in the west) seems to think this way as well. Mario and Zelda are timeless because they have an apparent quality in their gameplay - they don't need to use the shock value of something like GTA to sell units - and that's just what I love about Nintendo, and why I hope all the naysayers in this industry is completely wrong about what Nintendo has to do or not do.