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Posted: Jul 27 2010 12:32 am

My problem with Kinect is not any of the following.

No, my problem is this: it has been done before. Remember back in 2004, when Sony came out with a camera attachment for the PS2? It was called the EyeToy, and the big deal was that "there is no controller. Your body controls the game." It wasn't perfect, but it was cool, and most importantly, cheap. Even when new, the price for the EyeToy never exceeded $50 (at least not at my local stores), and I recently got a used EyeToy, in working condition, for three dollars (plus two more for AntiGrav).

Best of all--okay, not really, but it's still nice--the thing is just a USB webcam, and can be used as such on a PC. What about Kinect?

Sony seems to have taken a step back for no good reason. They just had to spruce up their tech; they made the EyeToy and PlayStation Eye, which were pretty good except for the ugly giant mic on the Eye. Why spend more time and money to create something that is not only unnecessary and outdated, but derivative?

Posted: Jul 27 2010 12:36 am

Isn't Kinect the Microsoft one?

Posted: Jul 27 2010 12:37 am

Quite frankly, I never saw what the problem was with controllers and buttons in the first place. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Posted: Jul 27 2010 12:44 am

Up until now, I've always thought it was Kincest.

2010 SLF Tag Champ Joined: Jun 07 2006 Posts: 12294

Skinr, I appreciate your darkman avatar. Welcome.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Skinr wrote:

No, my problem is this: it has been done before. Remember back in 2004, when Sony came out with a camera attachment for the PS2?

Remember when Nintendo came out with a controller for the NES?

And how a similar controller was used by...
Every single system since.

Each controller evolved. Some into better and some into worse versions of their predecessors.

I don't see how this is a problem. In fact, the only thing I see here is growth. Also, if I recall, the NES used to cost $100. The PS3 starting cost was $600. I don't see any problem with that either. Things cost more because of inflation more complicated hardware and consumer demand.

Posted: Jul 27 2010 10:13 am

It's a problem because it's a step backward in the name of pointless innovation. Now, instead of pushing a button to get a response immediately that is very natural, gamers have to wave their arm around and hope the device recognizes what it is they are trying to do.

Pushing the "A" button will always execute a punch, but punching in the air in front of a sensor will only sometimes execute the punch because of the inherent faults of infrared technology and human fallibility. Like the Eyetoy, the Kinect is only really useful for very simple games or a throwaway gimmick in others that convolute the gameplay. I just don't understand why console manufacturers insist on chasing this silly technology.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Pandajuice wrote:

It's a problem because it's a step backward in the name of pointless innovation. Now, instead of pushing a button to get a response immediately that is very natural, gamers have to wave their arm around and hope the device recognizes what it is they are trying to do.

Pushing the "A" button will always execute a punch, but punching in the air in front of a sensor will only sometimes execute the punch because of the inherent faults of infrared technology and human fallibility. Like the Eyetoy, the Kinect is only really useful for very simple games or a throwaway gimmick in others that convolute the gameplay. I just don't understand why console manufacturers insist on chasing this silly technology.

It isn't replacing anything though, it is in addition to other methods. If it works and people like it, how is this bad? If it works and people hate it, then it will fizzle out as a fad, how is this bad?

It is no more innovation for the sake of innovation than the Playstation using CD's instead of cartridges. Some companies were into it, some weren't. In the end, that step forward changed consoles significantly.

Posted: Jul 27 2010 12:22 pm

GPFontaine wrote:

Skinr wrote:

No, my problem is this: it has been done before. Remember back in 2004, when Sony came out with a camera attachment for the PS2?

Remember when Nintendo came out with a controller for the NES?

*Image of NES controller*

And how a similar controller was used by...
Every single system since.

That's a bit of any iffy comparison, the only thing other controllers have in common with the NES controller is that they go in a horizontal layout rather than the retarded phone Atari 5200/IntelliColecoVision layout and they have buttons. You might as well condemn the N64 and PSX dual shock controllers for ripping off the Atari 5200's use of an analog stick.

Posted: Jul 27 2010 12:33 pm

Ba'al wrote:

GPFontaine wrote:

Skinr wrote:

No, my problem is this: it has been done before. Remember back in 2004, when Sony came out with a camera attachment for the PS2?

Remember when Nintendo came out with a controller for the NES?

*Image of NES controller*

And how a similar controller was used by...
Every single system since.

That's a bit of any iffy comparison, the only thing other controllers have in common with the NES controller is that they go in a horizontal layout rather than the retarded phone Atari 5200/IntelliColecoVision layout and they have buttons. You might as well condemn the N64 and PSX dual shock controllers for ripping off the Atari 5200's use of an analog stick.

The NES controller DID invent the D-Pad though (no matter how simple it is).

Posted: Jul 27 2010 12:49 pm

Now that's kinda foggy as well, because the Intellivision had this weird disc that did the same thing as a d-pad more or less except in 16-directions, and then there's the Game & Watch handhelds like Donkey Kong whose design was more or less the basis(intentional or not) for the DS.

Posted: Jul 27 2010 01:45 pm

That was no D-pad, at least by what it has come to be recognized by the industry.

I do like how much the old Game & Watch's do look very similar to the DS.

Joined: Feb 16 2010 Posts: 130

Skinr, Sony's making the Move.
Microsoft is making the Kinect.

Posted: Jul 27 2010 04:32 pm

I like sitting and played games, if I wanted to hit i tennis ball I'd go hit a tennis ball, not look like an idiot in my living room

Posted: Jul 28 2010 12:54 am

Syd Lexia wrote:

Isn't Kinect the Microsoft one?

NotEnoughGolds wrote:

Skinr, Sony's making the Move. Microsoft is making the Kinect.

I am aware of this. The wording could have been better, but I wish to imply that both Sony and Microsoft are not right in the R&D head.

A casual, uneducated observer would assume Microsoft stole the 'controller-free' tech from Sony, who was then forced to rip off Nintendo to cover their asses.

Also, the NES did not invent the D-pad proper: the Game and Watch did (though it was made also by Nintendo, so it doesn't really matter).

Joined: Nov 03 2006 Posts: 763

Things are giong to start out worse, until the technology is perfected.. have alternatives to potentially break some boundaries and add variety I think is a bold and healthy move.

We'll see if it flops, then we can argue it's a waste, but I think conceptually there is potential.

Posted: Jul 28 2010 02:16 pm

Without physical feedback motion controls are unimmersive.

Joined: Feb 16 2010 Posts: 130

Skinr wrote:

Syd Lexia wrote:

Isn't Kinect the Microsoft one?

NotEnoughGolds wrote:

Skinr, Sony's making the Move. Microsoft is making the Kinect.

I am aware of this. The wording could have been better, but I wish to imply that both Sony and Microsoft are not right in the R&D head.

A casual, uneducated observer would assume Microsoft stole the 'controller-free' tech from Sony, who was then forced to rip off Nintendo to cover their asses.

Also, the NES did not invent the D-pad proper: the Game and Watch did (though it was made also by Nintendo, so it doesn't really matter).

Why aren't they right in the head?
It seems that Sony realized that gaming with no tactile experience whatsoever will not work well for most games. So instead of improving the EyeToy they made a Wiimote clone that works with the EyeToy, that would (theoretically) work better than the Wiimote.

Microsoft, however, decided that everyone should be able to start up some Justin Bieber with the wave of a hand or a voice command.
Also, flailing.

Joined: Feb 16 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 329

I had an EyeToy. It wasn't worth however much I paid for it. Didn't help that there were only a few games that used it and they were either crappy party games, or DDR.

Hopefully the Kinect won't follow in its footsteps.

Posted: Dec 25 2010 04:23 pm

Been playing with the Kinect all day, Kinect sports is preety damn fun especially soccer, who knew a motion soccer game would work

Posted: Dec 25 2010 04:47 pm

Yea, looks fairly cool. The software just looks so lackluster atm.

I thought about getting Move for my PS3 over the holidays but realized they had no good games yet.

Gallery 2 · Posted: Dec 25 2010 08:03 pm

My main concern with Kinetic is that so far it seem that designers aren't really trying to take advantage of Kinetic.

Why do I mean with that? Well, if you checked the configuration settings, you've already seen how it reads your movements (even make a pretty decent wireframe of your body for it to track). And so far, they've only churned Wii Sports rip offs and a fairly decent Dancing game with several degrees of success.

Where I am going with this? Lemme repeat myself: Motion Tracking, which could be potentially used for...

You guessed it, affordable Motion Capturing.

Now, I know this is far from actual Commercial Motion Capture, since it only registers your main joints points, not every single articulation in your body, but that doesn't mean Kinetic couldn't be used as a form of Mario Paint for CGI animation aficionados or really creative approaches from the Indie scene:

I honestly think Kinetic has tons of untapped potential and it will be a pity that this hardware dies because of shoddy software from lazy designers...

Posted: Dec 25 2010 09:36 pm

Anyone remember the Sega Activator?

I had it once. It was retarded: sensor beams instead of movement translation.

Posted: Dec 25 2010 10:12 pm

I guess that's what we get for trying to be innovative.

I mean, just take a look at the Wii. At first, everybody was going ape for the motion-sensing controls, but after a while, Nintendo practically went back to traditional gameplay. Just take a look at New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Donkey Kong Country Returns. The former, while giving you a few moves that require the motion controls, is just a traditional platformer played like the games on the NES. The latter, while allowing you to play with the Nunchuk, also allows you to be played with the Wii Remote turned to the side.

And then there's Metroid: Other M. While there is a first-person mode that requires you to point at the screen, most of the game is still played with the Wii Remote turned to the side.

Posted: Dec 25 2010 10:14 pm

I thought the problem with kinect is that it couldn't see black people???

No? Just Mine?

hmm... well I guess I must have trained it well Cool

haha, no... I'm not a racist.... No... I'm not a racist Wink