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Posted: Dec 03 2010 11:17 am

Ahhh, great information. I was too tired last night to dig it out. And I'll be honest, I had no idea he had such a good 2009 postseason, I was basing my claim on prior to that which would have been much lower numbers across the board.

And yeah, in no way shape or form will Jeter out slug% ARod, that's pretty obvious, and the other two stats were a slightly towards Jeter. And my argument includes the fact that ARod gets 27.5 million a year until he is over 40 years old. Is he worth nearly two times more? I don't think anyone is worth his cost personally.

I agree numbers are hugely important, but can you judge someone on just one season and that is all? Much talk is made of how someone performs in their contract year, this was Jeter's first contract year in forever or maybe ever, maybe it got into his head a bit, who knows, some people crush in contract years, (cough, cough, Beltre) some don't.

Let me ask you, if Jeter hit say .310 instead of .270, would this be less of a problem?

And also, since the end of the steroid era home run totals have come back down to earth excluding a few sluggers (Howard, Pujols, flavor of the year). 15-20 is a much more viable total then it was even 2 or 3 seasons ago. I'm fine with that many homers from my DH if he is a good OBP guy and happens to play on a team with ARod, Teixeira, & Cano.

Sidenote: How great is it that Morgan and Miller got let go? This is great news, but at the same time, I fully enjoyed laughing at his comments.

Posted: Dec 03 2010 12:14 pm

A-Rod outslugs Jeter and he gets on base more. Those are the two most important things that a hitter does. No, A-Rod isn't worth double what Jeter is worth, but again, the team already regrets A-Rod's contract.

It is just one year, but it's one year at age 36. He's probably done as an impact bat. And while he may have been somewhat unlucky, as he posted a career low BABIP, he also posted a career low LD% and FB%, and a career high GB%. These are strong indicators that his bat has slowed. He also posted a career low IsoP, so I don't think his power his coming back. He's definitely not a 20 home run guy going forward, especially since he hasn't hit 20 since 2004, and he might struggle to top 10 in the future.

BR has Jeter's #1 comp as Roberto Alomar. Alomar had an outstanding season at age 33 (.412 wOBA, 150 OPS+), and then completely fell off at age 34. Two years later, he was more or less out of baseball. I don't want the Yankees to give Jeter a five-year deal only to have him become a replacement level player or worse by year two. What do you do with a franchise icon due $60m who can't hit or field? Does he become the most expensive bench player of all-time? Do they cut him and eat an unprecedented amount of salary? Hire someone to kill him?

Posted: Dec 03 2010 12:36 pm

SuperAdventureSquad wrote:

What do you do with a franchise icon due $60m who can't hit or field? Does he become the most expensive bench player of all-time? Do they cut him and eat an unprecedented amount of salary? Hire someone to kill him?

I was thinking he could be one of the hot dog guys.

Their career OBP is the same, yes ARod outslugs Jeter, hugely important stat. And surprisingly both hit the same and had the same OBP last season.

Stat wise, I know this discussion doesn't favor giving Jeter a substantial contract. He will get more than he is worth, for sure, largely in part to the fact that it's the Yankees that will sign him.

And Tulo's deal was finalized I think, they gave him something near 20mill a year for seven years. I think it was tacked to his previous deal but I'm not sure.

Who do you root for Super?

Posted: Dec 03 2010 12:43 pm

These are the terms of Tulowitzki's deal:

Quote:

# 10 years/$157.75M (2011-20), plus 2021 club option

* signed extension with Colorado 11/30/10, replacing final 3 years and option in previous contract
* 11:$5.5M, 12:$8.25M, 13:$10M, 14:$16M, 15-19:$20M annually, 20:$14M, 21:$15M club option ($4M buyout)
* salaries for 2020 and 2021 may increase by $6M annually based on MVP votes, Gold Gloves, Silver Sluggers or All-Star selections
* $2M assignment bonus if traded
* may be traded only once during contract

My dad is from NY state, so I grew up rooting for the Yankees and Giants. My whole family went to UConn, so we're all UConn sports fans as well.

Posted: Dec 03 2010 01:35 pm

Cool, UConn Mens Hoops seems to have surprised a lot of people by pulling that pair of upsets to win their tourney. Now that I think about it, aren't they in line for a BCS Bowl?

If you plan to keep a player, I really don't get the back loaded contract idea. It's just going to make it worse later. Though it is a good back up if you intend to trade the player, which I don't expect that they would want to. Though, it could lineup with Helton's Contract ending. Meh, I talked myself out of that one, I still don't really like it in baseball, football is another story.

Posted: Dec 03 2010 01:46 pm

The idea is that, due to inflation and interest, money now is worth more than money in five years.

If we win this weekend, they're going to the Fiesta Bowl, with a very outside shot at the Orange Bowl.

Posted: Dec 03 2010 01:50 pm

Good point, I guess if I actually had money to inflate and incrue interest, that may have occurred to me.

Posted: Dec 04 2010 12:09 pm

RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!! RED SOX!!! ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!!

Posted: Dec 04 2010 07:46 pm

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Posted: Dec 04 2010 08:25 pm

This requires an avatar change. Happy dance time!

Posted: Dec 06 2010 02:47 am

Not only that, they got him for pretty much garbage.

Must be nice to have a connection with the San Diego front office. (San Diego GM Jed Hoyer and assistant GM Jason McLeod both worked in Boston for numerous years)

I guarantee every other team that inquired about A-Gon was told to cough up their top 3-4 prospects AND a good cheap MLBer.

But the Red Sox? Nah, we'll take two "meh" prospects and a hitter who projects to be Adam LaRoche 2.0 for one of the best first basemen in the game. All hail the mighty Red Sox! Rolling Eyes

This, coupled with Selig wanting to expand the playoffs (ostensibly to make sure that the Yankees/Red Sox get in every year...fucking Rays had to go and fuck up Selig's cash cow by knocking out Boston), is enough to make me puke.

Posted: Dec 06 2010 10:25 am

The Padres got a very good trio of prospects. Kelley was being touted pretty highly, the other two I don't know much about but I know are still young. Pretty hard to judge them at this point. This is the typical package for pillaging a premium player from a cash strapped team.

The playoff expansion has pretty much been received positively unanimously. You don't think that teams like the Blue Jays/White Sox don't want this? And it isn't a full blown playoff expansion. It seems like its going to be a 3 game series against the 2nd and 3rd wild card teams to see who makes the regular playoffs.

Posted: Dec 06 2010 11:53 am

I'm not really clear on the Casey Kelly hype. In AA last year, he posted a 5.31 ERA with a mediocre K rate and a crummy walk rate. Rizzo has some power, but he hit .260 between high-A and AA with a pretty poor K rate. I haven't read much as far as scouting on Fuentes' defense, but his bat looks pretty weak thus far. If he were a SS, that would be one thing, but he's an outfielder, so he better be a really good one.

A couple things seem odd about this deal. Obviously there's the fact that Jed Hoyer just traded his best player to his former employer despite the following:
1) The package he got back was, at best, underwhelming
2) The Padres were competitive in 2010
3) Gonzalez will only make $6m in 2011
4) He didn't really seem interested in trading him. In fact, he said that they wouldn't field offers from any other teams.

I have a hard time believing that no one was willing to top that package for Gonzalez.

Posted: Dec 06 2010 12:30 pm

Come on, your not seriously going to judge a prospect(s) on a single season of minor league ball. This isn't a 36 year old veteran coming off a bad contract year. I can't project how good they'll be, nor could anyone say they will be bad, time will tell, just like any trade involving prospects.

As stated, Jed Hoyer was part of the Red Sox player operations. Maybe he was personally instrumental in the acquisition of the prospects he got and really thinks that they will pan out.

And for the record, Fuentes seems to be a speed guy not power guy. And I know it includes lower level minors, but Rizzo has a .284 avg. and .822 OPS overall, including an over .800 OPS for last season. And Kelley has actually been splitting time between SS and pitching, so maybe with complete focus on pitching, he can improve more steadily. These guys are age 21, 19, 21, I don't know too much about them but they have plenty of time to learn or burn before they are expected in the pros.

Posted: Dec 06 2010 12:39 pm

Rydog wrote:

The Padres got a very good trio of prospects. Kelley was being touted pretty highly, the other two I don't know much about but I know are still young. Pretty hard to judge them at this point. This is the typical package for pillaging a premium player from a cash strapped team.

The playoff expansion has pretty much been received positively unanimously. You don't think that teams like the Blue Jays/White Sox don't want this? And it isn't a full blown playoff expansion. It seems like its going to be a 3 game series against the 2nd and 3rd wild card teams to see who makes the regular playoffs.

There is absolutely no way that someone couldn't offer a better package for Gonzalez, especially if the Padres held on until Spring Training and teams are more desperate for a 1B after one of theirs fails/gets hurt.

I feel that it's a GM giving thanks to his former team in the other league by trading their current best player to them for an underwhelming amount of talent....and if SAS is right about point #4 (that he wouldn't field offers from any other team but Boston), I would hope that someone would file a grievance and get that reversed...that's a crock of shit.

I think the playoff system works perfectly as it is. Unlike the other major sports leagues, you really have to work to earn a playoff spot in MLB. All this does is extend the season when people are already complaining that the season is too long. Yes, it's a 3-game series between the wild cards with the better record getting home-field, but it's fixing something that isn't broke. Three division champions and a wild card was a perfect setup. Now, 3 teams from the AL East can potentially make the playoffs! Yay!

Don't kid yourself...as long as the Jays/Orioles are in the AL East, they have NO shot at the playoffs, even with the expanded wild card. Jays don't have the colossal payroll the Yanks and Red Sox do, and they will either be in third or fourth with a winning record (in the neighborhood of 82-85 wins). The O's are just a mess.

Yes, the White Sox can MAYBE benefit, but I think they'll be fine once they learn that the Minnesota Twins are NOT this team that makes you piss your pants when you play them. They get over this mental block whenever they play against the Twins, they're almost certain to be AL Central champions. (It would also help if the Twins stopped having one or two 21-7 months EVERY GODDAMN YEAR only to get embarrassed in three games in the playoffs)

Posted: Dec 06 2010 12:55 pm

Sure, maybe someone could have offered more prospects for Gonzo, but would they do that knowing that they couldn't pay him? No. Only a handful of teams are capable of this type of trade when a contract extension is 100% necessary to make it worth it. This is probably why many teams couldn't justify coughing up a handful of top prospects, because they would know that it was only for one season. And yes, I acknowledge that this fact is a problem/isn't fair, but that's another story all together.

I have no idea on SAS's fourth point, any quotes/info to back it up?

I agree, I had no problem with the current playoff format, but 6 more potential playoff games is a little more money into the playoff TV contract. Sports are businesses, you can't lose sight of this fact.

In 2006, the Blue Jays finished ahead of the Red Sox.
White Sox finished in 6th place last year, one game behind the Red Sox.

I don't get the Twins either, they always get written off then sneak in. The A's used to do this all the time also.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Dec 06 2010 12:56 pm

Did they change the playoff system? I did not know that.

People do bitch about the playoffs expanding, but really, the MLB playoffs are the hardest ones to get into.

MLB - 8/30 teams make the playoffs, to become 10/30 if the change is implemented.
NFL - 12/32 teams make the playoffs.
NBA 16/30 teams make the playoffs.
NHL - 16/30 teams make the playoffs.

And I have a question...who cares if the Jays or Orioles never make it in? Why should bad teams make the playoffs? You can't say that the other teams have an easy shot at it, they work for it, and things change...5 years ago, the Rays were a fucking joke, now they're considered an elite team, playing in the hardest division in baseball (probably in all of sports now). Personally, what annoys me is teams that cakewalk their way into the playoffs in shitty divisions like the AL or NL West.

You want the White Sox, or any team, in the playoffs? They need to earn it. None of this "everyone above .500 and hey why not a team or two below it" shit like basketball.

I agree the salary system in baseball is borked, but you can field a good team on a budget.

Posted: Dec 06 2010 01:10 pm

I agree with Satsui and Rydog's recent posts whole-heartedly, and they made many of the same points I would.

The Red Sox got him because Gonzalez was only going to go if he knew he was going to get a fat contract extension. Right now very few teams would be willing to give up quality prospects (and anyone who follows baseball closely knows they have great potential and aren't a bunch of shit like some of you are trying to make them out to be) for one year from Gonzalez. In fact, it looked like only the Cubs and Sox were potential suiters....surprise, surprise those are teams with money.

There isn't some grand conspiracy, don't be silly. It's how baseball is set up. This isn't the NFL where every team is playing with the same weapons. In baseball the teams that make the most money get the best chance at the best players and therefore are usually the best teams. But don't say the Jays and O's don't have a shot at the playoffs. You could have said the same thing about the Rays just three seasons ago. They went to the World Series. Do they have as much room for error as the Yankees or Sox? Of course not. But that's the system right now. There isn't some grand Selig-backed conspiracy to get the Red Sox a certain player.

Posted: Dec 06 2010 01:25 pm

UsaSatsui wrote:

Did they change the playoff system? I did not know that.

People do bitch about the playoffs expanding, but really, the MLB playoffs are the hardest ones to get into.

MLB - 8/30 teams make the playoffs, to become 10/30 if the change is implemented.
NFL - 12/32 teams make the playoffs.
NBA 16/30 teams make the playoffs.
NHL - 16/30 teams make the playoffs.

And I have a question...who cares if the Jays or Orioles never make it in? Why should bad teams make the playoffs? You can't say that the other teams have an easy shot at it, they work for it, and things change...5 years ago, the Rays were a fucking joke, now they're considered an elite team, playing in the hardest division in baseball (probably in all of sports now). Personally, what annoys me is teams that cakewalk their way into the playoffs in shitty divisions like the AL or NL West.

They agreed to it, and the change will be implemented after the 2011 season.

The reason the Rays are an elite team now is because they didn't pick outside the Top 5 in the draft for damn near all of their existence. You get THAT many #1-#5 picks, you're bound to scrape something together. Good on them, but what happens when all these picks hit free agency? No way small-market Tampa Bay can afford everyone. They have a hard time getting 50% attendance even when they're right in the thick of the playoff race.

The reason the Jays can't compete is because they have two teams in that division that pretty much divide all the free agents worth a damn amongst themselves. They have a solid young team, and they'd be competitive in almost every other division, but they're dead in the water in the AL East. The Orioles do suck, however.

That irritates me too (weak divisions) but the NL West wasn't exactly weak this year. Giants (World Series champs) had 92, San Diego had 90, and it took a 9-game losing streak at the end for Colorado to finish with 83. The only team that truly sucked in the West was Arizona.

AL West should have been a two-team race between Texas and Los Angeles, but LAA was a walking MASH unit for most of the season, so that's why they didn't do as well as expected.

Now, the NL Central was a heaping pile of garbage this year. Aside from Cincinnati and St. Louis, every other team in that divison (Brewers, Astros, Cubs, Pirates) finished below .500, with the Pirates amassing a sparkling 105 losses.

UsaSatsui wrote:

You want the White Sox, or any team, in the playoffs? They need to earn it. None of this "everyone above .500 and hey why not a team or two below it" shit like basketball.

That's the point I'm making. I don't get pissed when the White Sox miss the playoffs because "there should be another playoff spot!" I get pissed because they shit their pants against the Twins every year.

I want the White Sox to earn it. I want them to win their division. I think it works fine as it is...you truly have to bust your ass during the season to have a chance at the playoffs. I don't like the idea of watering down the playoffs.

UsaSatsui wrote:

I agree the salary system in baseball is borked, but you can field a good team on a budget.

...until the players hit free agency and the Yankees and Red Sox throw blank checks at them.

Posted: Dec 06 2010 02:25 pm

If we are going to talk team payrolls, can we at least bring the facts:

2006 Team Payrolls:

1. Yankees - $194 mil
2. Red Sox - $120 mil
3. LA Angels - 103 mil
4. Chi White Sox - 102 mil
5. NY Mets - 101 mil
6. LA Dodgers - 98 mil

Yes, Yankees first, Red Sox second. But four teams are right near the Red Sox, the Yankees are far and away #1.

2007 Team Payrolls:

1. Yankees - 190 mil
2. Red Sox - 143 mil
3. NY Mets - 115 mil
4.LA Angels - 109 mil
5. Chi White Sox - 108 mil
6. LA Dodgers - 108 mil
7. Seattle Mariners - 106 mil
8. Chicago Cubs - 100mil

Yanks first about the same, Red Sox did trend up, opening the gap between them and the pack a bit. But, judging by the way people talk, whodathunk it EVER!!! possible that any team ever spent more than 100 mill other than Sox/Yanks, let alone 6 more.

2008 Team Payrolls:

1. Yankees - 206 mil
2. Red Sox - 162 mil
3. Chicago Cubs - 146 mil
4. Philly Phillies - 142 mil
5. NY Mets - 132 mil
6. Detroit Tigers - 122 mil
7. Chi White Sox - 108 mil
8. LA Angels - 105 mil
9. - 11. 3 teams at 97 mil and up

Yanks first, Red Sox second. But lookd at the other teams, 11 total near or over 100 million, with several well above that mark.

2009 Team Payrolls:

1. Yankees - 201 mil
2. NY Mets - 150 mil
3. Chicago Cubs - 134 mil
4. Red Sox - 121 mil
5. Detroit Tigers - 115 mil
6. LA Angels - 113 mil
7. Philly Phillies - 113 mil
8.- 12. 5 teams at 96 mil and up

Yankees first, Mets second. With several teams above the Red Sox or neck and neck.

2010 Team Payrolls:

1. Yankees - 206 mil
2. Red Sox - 162 mil
3. Chicago Cubs - 146 mil
4. Philly Phillies - 142 mil
5. NY Mets - 132 mil
6. Detroit - 122 mil
7. Chi White Sox - 108 mil
8. LA Angels - 105 mil
9. - 11. 3 teams above 97 mil

Again, Yanks then Red Sox, but again, several teams right on the heels of the Red Sox.

So basically all I'm trying to say is, OTHER TEAMS SPEND MONEY TOO.

Posted: Dec 07 2010 04:36 pm

Jeter and the yanks finally agreed to a deal. 3 years for 17 mil per for 51mil total, which also includes a player option for a 4th year at 8 mil. Why this couldn't have just been worded at 4 years/60 mil from the start...shrugs. In the end, Jeter got his 4th year, the Yankees got the rate of pay they wanted, seems like a fair middle.

Posted: Dec 09 2010 10:13 am

CARL CRAWFORD!!! RED SOX!!! CARL CRAWFORD!!! RED SOX!!! CARL CRAWFORD!!! RED SOX!!! CARL CRAWFORD!!! RED SOX!!! CARL CRAWFORD!!! RED SOX!!! CARL CRAWFORD!!! RED SOX!!! CARL CRAWFORD!!! RED SOX!!! CARL CRAWFORD!!! RED SOX!!! CARL CRAWFORD!!! RED SOX!!! CARL CRAWFORD!!! RED SOX!!! CARL CRAWFORD!!! RED SOX!!! CARL CRAWFORD!!! RED SOX!!! CARL CRAWFORD!!! RED SOX!!! CARL CRAWFORD!!! RED SOX!!!

I like hot stove this year, we are kicking ass. Now, how about a righty? Because if the Yanks get Lee, CC and Lee will be a hard duo in the playoffs with such a lefty lineup.

Posted: Dec 09 2010 01:41 pm

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Yankees were trying to get him, too. Love it.

Posted: Dec 13 2010 03:26 pm

I don't think the Yankees ever had any real interest in signing Crawford. They're after Lee big-time, and there's no way that they were going to take on two contracts like that right now. Also, Crawford doesn't really fit in the Yankees' outfield, given the fact that they're getting good production out of three affordable players.

Posted: Dec 14 2010 02:14 am

BWAHAHAHA! CLIFF LEE TO THE PHILLIES!!!